Let's all be sheep.

It's just so ♥♥♥♥ing convenient to shut up, agree with everyone, and slave away to the social media. There's definitely no problem in that.

Why are most people afraid to voice their opinions?

I think people who are part of the "mainstream" fall into two categories:

1. The people who truly believe in it.
This could be for any number of reasons; hell, sometimes the mainstream isn't wrong. For example, I would argue that there isn't anything inherently wrong with liking and using social media a lot. In cases where the mainstream is wrong and those that think deeply will have different opinions, those people could agree just because they don't think too deeply about it - instead they rely on a gut reaction, which is wrong but because they feel it deeply they choose not to question it.

2. The people who don't believe in it but say it anyway.
These seem to be the people you're talking about - the people who may have an opinion contrary to the mainstream, but choose not to talk about it for whatever reason. There are countless reasons why this may be the case. For example, there are some opinions I feel strongly that I don't talk about with people, because people get too angry about them and I don't enjoy arguing with angry people. It doesn't mean my opinions are any less strong, but it means that too many people take the topic too personally for me to have a discussion about the opinion. The reverse is also true; I avoid debating things that I know I will take personally because I know that arguing with an angry person isn't fun. Those people could also, on another note, just not want to argue with anyone at all. Maybe they're unsure in their opinions and need more time to flesh them out, or maybe they're sure and will never change so talking about it pointless. Maybe they know that expressing a pro-abortion view to their Chick-Fil-A manager will get them fired and they need the money.

Either way, reducing all these people to sheep is way too reductive to be of any value. Every person has their reasons, whether they be thoughtful or not, and it's unhelpful to frame the characterization of them in an insult. Sociological theory tells us not to blame the trends of society on the people, because that will get you nowhere. If you want to change society, you have to work to make the goal you want more attractive on a global scale than the result you don't want. Blaming everyone for being sheep won't change anything; the only way it will change will be to encourage diverse opinions on a global scale. And unfortunately, at least on a US level, we're backsliding in the tolerance of diverse opinions.

I understand the prompt, but how is social media tied to this, unless you mean people don't voice their opinion in real life as opposed to social media? I'd say from the protection of our computer and phone screens, we're actually far more likely to say what's on our minds than otherwise. I have many personal examples of friends - and even myself - saying what's on our minds to someone through social media/texting since it takes out the middle man of everyone's least favorite thing - confrontation. Nobody likes looking someone in the eye and telling them what they really think, especially when the alternative of saying it without immediate repercussions is available.

Honesty is scarce nowadays. I'd rather be considered harsh/cold/etc and tell the truth, than sugarcoat everything in attempt to appear nice. Am I really a genuinely nice person if I'm just doing it in order to appear more likeable to others? I'm gonna have to quote Kurt Cobain on this: I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not.

Also, regarding the whole 'people being sheep' thing, all I have to say is that I have zero respect for people who do something just because it's popular, even if they don't like it. Y'know, just for the sake of being 'in'. Then when the fad dies out, they suddenly think it's lame. Absolute BS, I say.

In before "sheeple"

Poki said:

Honesty is scarce nowadays. I'd rather be considered harsh/cold/etc and tell the truth, than sugarcoat everything in attempt to appear nice. Am I really a genuinely nice person if I'm just doing it in order to appear more likeable to others? I'm gonna have to quote Kurt Cobain on this: I'd rather be hated for who I am, than for who I am not.

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This is where tact comes in. It's a wonderful skill to have, and absolutely one worth investing in. The truth doesn't always have to hurt.

As for the whole following-the-crowd thing, if you like what the 'mainstream' likes, there shouldn't be any problem with that. You like what you like, and if a lot of people like the same thing it must be a pretty good thing.

Following the crowd for the sake of being 'in' is more a social survival skill than anything else. The chameleon changes color to avoid predators, and some people follow the mainstream crowd to blend in the same way and avoid social predators. I don't think it's really a right-or-wrong kind of thing, it's just one of many ways people interact with a given situation. Humans are by nature social creatures, and trying to form bonds with others is what we do.

In the end, it really comes down to a fear of being rejected by others. I think the sooner we can learn to agree to disagree the less impact that fear will have on us, and the better off we'll all be. It's a bit idealistic, but it'd be nice to see more effort put into it anyways.

Reading over it, this post is probably a grammatical nightmare. Don't blame me, I'm a scientist not a writer ~_~

Tlachtli said:

In before "sheeple"



This is where tact comes in. It's a wonderful skill to have, and absolutely one worth investing in. The truth doesn't always have to hurt.

As for the whole following-the-crowd thing, if you like what the 'mainstream' likes, there shouldn't be any problem with that. You like what you like, and if a lot of people like the same thing it must be a pretty good thing.

Following the crowd for the sake of being 'in' is more a social survival skill than anything else. The chameleon changes color to avoid predators, and some people follow the mainstream crowd to blend in the same way and avoid social predators. I don't think it's really a right-or-wrong kind of thing, it's just one of many ways people interact with a given situation. Humans are by nature social creatures, and trying to form bonds with others is what we do.

In the end, it really comes down to a fear of being rejected by others. I think the sooner we can learn to agree to disagree the less impact that fear will have on us, and the better off we'll all be. It's a bit idealistic, but it'd be nice to see more effort put into it anyways.

Reading over it, this post is probably a grammatical nightmare. Don't blame me, I'm a scientist not a writer ~_~

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And that makes them extremely fake. If they genuinely like something, good for them. But, if they like something just because others do, then they're nothing more than a sheep. I've seen a lot of people dislike something until it becomes popular, then it's suddenly their favourite thing evurrr liek omgz. Shallow much?

Last night I was speaking to my landlord's sister during my landlord's birthday party. She was talking about how the Argentinian military dictators, who killed thousands of people after torturing them, weren't so bad because the people they killed were terrorists who deserved it. I immediately changed topics because I didn't want to start an argument with her at that point, even though I thought her opinions were horrendous. Should I have started the argument? Well, maybe I wouldn't be sleeping here tonight. Sometimes you have to make a balance between openly being yourself and portraying a favourable image of yourself. I'm not going to see these people anymore after July, why should I argue with them? To prove a point? Would that have been worth it?

About "mainstream media", well, being popular doesn't make that opinion any more right or wrong that it would be if it weren't so popular. And even the "mainstream media" offers wildly different and opposing arguments and ideas, it's just a matter of looking for the channel that agrees with you. In no way "everybody" just agrees with each other.

And finally, maybe people just don't care/know about X until everybody tells them to check it properly and they realize it's not as bad as they previously thought (or discover that the thing they didn't care about is good). I'm not saying that there aren't any ""posers"" out there that like X just to be "in", but saying that everybody is a sellout unless they liked x "before it was popular" is being utterly oversimplistic.

Poki said:

And that makes them extremely fake. If they genuinely like something, good for them. But, if they like something just because others do, then they're nothing more than a sheep. I've seen a lot of people dislike something until it becomes popular, then it's suddenly their favourite thing evurrr liek omgz. Shallow much?

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The distinctions of "real" and "fake" are arbitrary; every single person in the entire world has some level of falsehood in what they do. Every sentence said is the result of a long thought process and has dozens of unsaid sentences behind it. If you wanted to be truly genuine and not hide anything, you would have to explain nearly your entire life with every opinion you share: for example, if I wanted to share the opinion that my favorite color is purple, I would have to tell the history of my favorite color, how it began as pink when I was young and then became jealous of my older sister whose favorite color was blue and then wanted a unique favorite color so I began to like purple and it became part of who I am. But that story is boring and I'm not being false by not telling it every time I mention my favorite color.

You're also disregarding humans as social creatures. Everyone likes things that other people like, and everyone is influenced by it to an extent. Everyone is also influenced by what they are exposed to; many people change their opinions about things after being exposed to it multiple times, whether it's a band, a movie, or a trend. All trends are in fact about people influencing other people, and every person follows trends. Unless you literally never wear a pair of jeans (that are demonstrably less comfortable than sweatpants or leggings or no pants at all), never wear a printed t-shirt, never wear anything with any design, and have no preferences towards any clothing whatsoever, you are following a trend. If you ever drink Coke, you're following a trend. If you watch any movie that comes out in a theater or in an independent film festival, you're following a trend. There is virtually no place in a society that is not in the middle of multiple trends, no matter who you are, and being influenced by those trends and the people around you is only as shallow as the entirety of human civilization.

How do you determine that these people don't have a genuine interest in what they claim to like? Do you quiz them? Or do you watch them from afar and determine based on external factors their internal state of mind?

Ivysaur said:

Last night I was speaking to my landlord's sister during my landlord's birthday party. She was talking about how the Argentinian military dictators, who killed thousands of people after torturing them, weren't so bad because the people they killed were terrorists who deserved it. I immediately changed topics because I didn't want to start an argument with her at that point, even though I thought her opinions were horrendous. Should I have started the argument? Well, maybe I wouldn't be sleeping here tonight. Sometimes you have to make a balance between openly being yourself and portraying a favourable image of yourself. I'm not going to see these people anymore after July, why should I argue with them? To prove a point? Would that have been worth it?

About "mainstream media", well, being popular doesn't make that opinion any more right or wrong that it would be if it weren't so popular. And even the "mainstream media" offers wildly different and opposing arguments and ideas, it's just a matter of looking for the channel that agrees with you. In no way "everybody" just agrees with each other.

And finally, maybe people just don't care/know about X until everybody tells them to check it properly and they realize it's not as bad as they previously thought (or discover that the thing they didn't care about is good). I'm not saying that there aren't any ""posers"" out there that like X just to be "in", but saying that everybody is a sellout unless they liked x "before it was popular" is being utterly oversimplistic.

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I'm aware of the different situations people are in, but I'm clearly discussing only the 'posers' you mentioned.

Oryx said:

The distinctions of "real" and "fake" are arbitrary; every single person in the entire world has some level of falsehood in what they do. Every sentence said is the result of a long thought process and has dozens of unsaid sentences behind it. If you wanted to be truly genuine and not hide anything, you would have to explain nearly your entire life with every opinion you share: for example, if I wanted to share the opinion that my favorite color is purple, I would have to tell the history of my favorite color, how it began as pink when I was young and then became jealous of my older sister whose favorite color was blue and then wanted a unique favorite color so I began to like purple and it became part of who I am. But that story is boring and I'm not being false by not telling it every time I mention my favorite color.

You're also disregarding humans as social creatures. Everyone likes things that other people like, and everyone is influenced by it to an extent. Everyone is also influenced by what they are exposed to; many people change their opinions about things after being exposed to it multiple times, whether it's a band, a movie, or a trend. All trends are in fact about people influencing other people, and every person follows trends. Unless you literally never wear a pair of jeans (that are demonstrably less comfortable than sweatpants or leggings or no pants at all), never wear a printed t-shirt, never wear anything with any design, and have no preferences towards any clothing whatsoever, you are following a trend. If you ever drink Coke, you're following a trend. If you watch any movie that comes out in a theater or in an independent film festival, you're following a trend. There is virtually no place in a society that is not in the middle of multiple trends, no matter who you are, and being influenced by those trends and the people around you is only as shallow as the entirety of human civilization.

How do you determine that these people don't have a genuine interest in what they claim to like? Do you quiz them? Or do you watch them from afar and determine based on external factors their internal state of mind?

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You just made everything sound like a trend.

Twerking, for example. Miley did it, and suddenly it became popular, which lead to teenagers twerking their asses off. Also Gangnam Style, What Does The Fox Say?, and the condom snorting challenge.

I've had my fair share of discussing things like that with people, and I've gotten the response "cuz evri1s doin eet duhhhh" more than I'd like to admit.

Poki said:

You just made everything sound like a trend.

Twerking, for example. Miley did it, and suddenly it became popular, which lead to teenagers twerking their asses off. Also Gangnam Style, What Does The Fox Say?, and the condom snorting challenge.

I've had my fair share of discussing things like that with people, and I've gotten the response "cuz evri1s doin eet duhhhh" more than I'd like to admit.

Click to expand...

How do you define trend? I use the definition a way of behaving/acting/expressing oneself in a way that follows patterns that other people have set out. You're right, I did make everything sound like a trend - that's because I believe that everything in our society is influenced by other people and therefore when we behave a certain way that matches a group in society, we are following a trend. I do believe that everything we do is a trend; that's how human society works. We follow each other, consciously or subconsciously.

You don't seem to be presenting the people you're talking about in a very critical way at all, so it's hard to take you at face value when you insist that these are direct quotes from people you talk to. It seems far more likely that they said something that you interpreted as this, and are now giving us your interpretation rather than the words they actually said.

I also want to point out that trying something because other people around you like it is not shallow; it's how reviews work and how we decide what to spend time on in our world that's overstuffed with ways to spend our limited resources. Trying something because all of my friends love it is far from shallow, and liking it isn't shallow either.

I would be interested to talk about this from a non-insulting perspective, where the people following trends aren't called shallow and sheep and afraid. But focusing on an individual level and judging those people as inferior and worthy of insults is not the way to go about a discussion, because there's nothing inherently wrong with following a trend for whatever reason you choose to do it. No one's being hurt by it, why is it so abhorrent to you?

I have to say thank you, Poki, for creating such a thread, because this whole subject is also why I think entertainment media such as movies and video games should be treated the same way as politics, because they too have their fair share of sheeps that could harm certain companies. You cannot believe how frustrating it is about how corrupted industries are to try appeal to the lowest common denominator and create flame wars on the internet to destroy a certain brand, whether they deserved it or not, to gain the benefits of a brand they're loyal to. This is also why we must only cater to the vocal minority, who are suppose to be more intelligent and thoughtful than the mainstream, because they may start an internet riot if they don't get what they want and the companies continue to please the sheep crowd.

Oryx said:

How do you define trend? I use the definition a way of behaving/acting/expressing oneself in a way that follows patterns that other people have set out. You're right, I did make everything sound like a trend - that's because I believe that everything in our society is influenced by other people and therefore when we behave a certain way that matches a group in society, we are following a trend. I do believe that everything we do is a trend; that's how human society works. We follow each other, consciously or subconsciously.

You don't seem to be presenting the people you're talking about in a very critical way at all, so it's hard to take you at face value when you insist that these are direct quotes from people you talk to. It seems far more likely that they said something that you interpreted as this, and are now giving us your interpretation rather than the words they actually said.

I also want to point out that trying something because other people around you like it is not shallow; it's how reviews work and how we decide what to spend time on in our world that's overstuffed with ways to spend our limited resources. Trying something because all of my friends love it is far from shallow, and liking it isn't shallow either.

I would be interested to talk about this from a non-insulting perspective, where the people following trends aren't called shallow and sheep and afraid. But focusing on an individual level and judging those people as inferior and worthy of insults is not the way to go about a discussion, because there's nothing inherently wrong with following a trend for whatever reason you choose to do it. No one's being hurt by it, why is it so abhorrent to you?

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I did give out a few examples of what I define as a trend earlier. Also, I have never said that those were direct quotes. I was interpreting them in my own way. Anyway, if you're so interested in direct quotes, I'll be happy to provide you with such: Защото всички други го правят. (Because everyone else is doing it.)

Because I hate to repeat myself, I'd like to direct you to South Park's episode Chinpokomon, and Ed, Edd & Eddy's episode It's Way Ed. They have summed up everything I'm trying to say in a clever, and funny way. Watch either one if you're interested.

I'm just wondering why people decide to blend in with the crowd, and just agree with everyone, isntead of voicing their own opinion.

I think it sucks because people without genuine interests don't come across as personable. Generic people aren't any fun. Personally I don't like hanging out with shallow people either. I think one can be validly disappointed or annoyed at "sheep" in their social forums, especially if they're looking for more thoughtful discussion. If they like Miley, maybe they have a really interesting reason and that could be something worth talking about.

@ Oryx - I don't think it gets us anywhere we we just make all trends equivalent because they are trends and because we are human. That explains nothing. And nobody said that trying something was shallow. Like Tlatchli said, fitting in is a survival skill. On the flipside, it can make for generic interaction and not all of us have time fo dat.

@ Poki - Because some people just don't have opinions? That can't be true, can it?

Personally, I think it might be the combination of the general population being somewhat more sensitive to everything, and not wanting to be ridiculed by everyone else that makes it hard for people to voice their own opinions. Because of this, I value people who are completely honest more these days; I would rather people be blunt, and straightforward with me rather than beating around the bush.

In terms of your premise, social media, and the role it plays in individuals' lives, there exists the conception that role models these days are generally celebrities that we see on TV. Psychologically people are attracted to them possibly because of their fame or whatever, but in my opinion, I actually have no idea why anyone would follow in the footsteps of others especially those in the entertainment industry. Sure, there are the good individuals who do share their life lessons, and try to encourage children/adolescences to be their own person, but I see people my age obsessing over the wrong kind of people.

It bothers me, especially now that I'm going to a low-class suburb high school with drug addicts, dope heads, degenerates and morons galore. I see them everywhere. You know the ones, right? Pants sagging off their asses, neon orange sneakers, unbuttoned plaid shirt with t-shirt underneath displaying whatever is "hip", cheap neon plastic sunglasses, flat-brow hat precariously placed at an upward 45 degree angle profile on their body. Yeah, the true face of American youth.

There is a distinct difference between these ilk and those who wear a persona because they think it fits them. I have an incredibly outlandish persona about me (from what my peers have described and what I have observed), but I'm not by any means part of the in-crowd that wears whatever others wear; instead I have a rather thick light brown taper cut and wear jeans with dark colored t-shirts and a tight black denim jacket, and often I'll wear home-cut sleeveless t-shirts. I don't wear hats, sunglasses, and only wear flip flops in my summer wear, which are low-hanging khaki shorts and same said t-shirts. My sense of fashion is by no means extraordinary and is not hard at all to come up with (if I came up with it, I mean really), and it makes me question why other people my age not only don't create their own fashion persona but go through lengths to emulate the current "in-crowd" look that pop stars display and then proceed to horribly butcher it in some way or another.

As far as the influence as to why this is happening, I can see attribution going to the media (which is an array consisting of food/drink/clothing companies, the music industry, news, etc) along with a quote I saw a long time ago referring to a cult of ignorance in this country nurtured by the false notion that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge", or something like that.

Fitting in is important. If you can't fit in socially somewhere your life will be miserable. We're conditioned from an early age that the easiest way to fit in is to be accommodating, be nice, avoid confrontation, don't be controversial.

If somebody is very comfortable with their social status they can push those boundaries. It's why when people meet they normally have quite generic personalities but slowly come out and show more of their true selves when comfort is built.

If somebody is charismatic or a leader, they can be controversial or different AND fit in at the same time.






EDIT: In terms of social media. 'Likes' are like heroin, they need to get their fix.

Hating One Direction and Justin Bieber is very popular with:
1. Teenage males
2. Gamers/Geeks
3. Girls who want to jump on the bandwagon and Nerdy/Geeky girls.
4. Creepy adult men (which relates to number 2)

I have found out that the hate towards them is mainly bandwagon hate and calling them gay and talentless is just lame, when 1D and JB are clearly the opposite.

I do think that these haters do fear of being judged by people if they become fans of One Direction and Justin, because it is "gay" for a male to be a fan of Justin or One Direction, so they try to act "cool" and hate them, to fit in.

Or Justin and One Direction's haters are jealous and just hate to be "cool" and fit in because it makes them feel special and superior (when it really doesn't, bullying is wrong). With the hate Justin received in 2009, 2010, 2011 and some of 2012. I think the bullying and hate has made him change, how?
1. Being called a "girl" - He has been going shirtless all the time and has changed his looks.
2. Being called "gay" - Apparently dating countless women, sleeping with them and sucking breasts.
3. Being called "talentless" - Changing his whole music genre from pop to R&B, resulting in his album sales dropping.

Here's something many Beliebers have said, which is very true: "Bullying is wrong unless the victim is Justin Bieber".

Poki said:

They are talante-- Hold your horses, I'm not finished. They are talanted at making insecure 10-16 year old girls' panties wet and they're getting rich out of it all by making tasteless pop music garbage, which those kind of girls, surprisingly, buy.

Excuse me, but not all the people you refer to as ''haters'', are jealous. They have legit reasons to dislike them as artists (Dare I call them that?). I, for one, strongly dislike their music, because:

1. It's all the same, repetitive crap.
2. No real meaning behind it.
3. Will only appeal to desperate teenage girls, who believe that these boys actually care about them, and not all the cash they get thanks to them.
4. Those particular ''artists'' (both JB & 1D) have one of the worst fanbases. Period.

Must I go on?

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Knew I'd get a butthurt hater response like this. They don't have legit reasons to dislike them, they have asinine immature excuses, while the haters are sitting in their parent's basement behind a computer screen spreading hate, they are oblivious to the fact that One Direction and Justin's music may have saved that girl when she was at her low point, the faces of a five member boyband may have made her happy, since a long time, the soulful voice of Justin Bieber may have got her to get rid of the razor and her scars have since healed.

Calling someone gay because they haven't fully developed yet is just wrong, the thing is, Justin and One Direction are more successful than their haters will ever be.

Justin never deserved the hate he got in 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2012... What the haters said and did to him was sick and perverted. Why hate on someone innocent? As I have stated, I wouldn't be surprised if Justin's stupid behavior was caused by the undeserved hate he got.

Like any other hater, your excuses are lame and have generic reasons.
Oh and saying their fans are "12-16", nah, I'm a 19-year-old guy and I LOVE their music, so do a lot of other people my age and older, I guess I'm not some jealous 40-year-old basement dwelliing creep.

I have a feeling, like most haters, you are only judging Justin on "Baby" and One Direction on "What Makes You Beautiful".

Sideshow Bob said:

Knew I'd get a butthurt hater response like this. They don't have legit reasons to dislike them, they have asinine immature excuses, while the haters are sitting in their parent's basement behind a computer screen spreading hate, they are oblivious to the fact that One Direction and Justin's music may have saved that girl when she was at her low point, the faces of a five member boyband may have made her happy, since a long time, the soulful voice of Justin Bieber may have got her to get rid of the razor and her scars have since healed.

Calling someone gay because they haven't fully developed yet is just wrong, the thing is, Justin and One Direction are more successful than their haters will ever be.

Justin never deserved the hate he got in 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2012... What the haters said and did to him was sick and perverted. Why hate on someone innocent? As I have stated, I wouldn't be surprised if Justin's stupid behavior was caused by the undeserved hate he got.

Like any other hater, your excuses are lame and have generic reasons.
Oh and saying their fans are "12-16", nah, I'm a 19-year-old guy and I LOVE their music, so do a lot of other people my age and older, I guess I'm not some jealous creep.

I have a feeling, like most haters, you are only judging Justin on "Baby" and One Direction on "What Makes You Beautiful".

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I don't know about you, but the generic, completely overused reasons "Their haters are jealous creeps who live in their mothers' basement" & "He has more success than you ever will" sound pretty childish to me. Or is it just me?

What if I told you that not only their music can have that impact on people?

Like any other JB/1D supporter, your reasons are extremely banal, and do not make you right. I don't see a point to discuss this any further.

Added: Because I am friends with Beliebers/Directioners, I have listened to a lot of their songs. They do not stand out in any way, and they're disgustingly generic.

Poki said:

I don't know about you, but the generic, completely overused reasons "Their haters are jealous creeps who live in their mothers' basement" & "He has more success than you ever will" sound pretty childish to me. Or is it just me?

What if I told you that not only their music can have that impact on people?

Like any other JB/1D supporter, your reasons are extremely banal, and do not make you right. I don't see a point to discuss this any further.

Added: Because I am friends with Beliebers/Directioners, I have listened to a lot of their songs. They do not stand out in any way, and they're disgustingly generic.

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I think what I have said is fitting, their haters have lame ass asinine excuses to hate them, calling them talentless and gay, when if 1D and JB were really talentless, wouldn't they be the creeps spreading hate and acting like 12-year-olds? No, Justin and One Direction are out there making music, trying to make a difference in the world. They are out there working hard to make people happy, meeting with fans, when possible and doing charity work (don't say that they only do it "for publicity" because they don't, Justin grew up below the poverty line and possibly 1D did, so they probably know what it is like to not get much for Christmas). Justin and One Direction have WORKED to get where they are, they gave up being your average Joe to become artists, they do not deserve the hate they get, because they haven't done anything wrong (except Justin's asinine choices). Haters should move on from the past and if they respect One Direction and Justin Bieber as artists, maybe they could be happier and may even do something with their life.