• Our software update is now concluded. You will need to reset your password to log in. In order to do this, you will have to click "Log in" in the top right corner and then "Forgot your password?".
  • Welcome to PokéCommunity! Register now and join one of the best fan communities on the 'net to talk Pokémon and more! We are not affiliated with The Pokémon Company or Nintendo.

2016 US Presidential Elections Thread [Trump Wins]

ShinyUmbreon189

VLONE coming soon
  • 1,461
    Posts
    12
    Years
    Okay, so your solution to pushing for a progressive agenda is having a xenophobic misogynistic racist as a president instead of someone who's actually the closest thing to Sanders himself?

    Okay, first off I'm just going to say a few things and that's it. I am not defending Trump at all as I hate the man but I'm also not voting for anyone else, the election is a circus, so I'm not voting period. But, the crap you hear about Trump is mostly false. When Trump does a rally the media only shows specific clips of his announcements to bash him rather than giving his whole speech to the audience. What they show you is what they expect you to perceive Trump as, it's a tactic to control the masses opinions. The man DOES NOT come off as racist, Muslim isn't a race it's a religion, they are actually "Arabs" and when he speaks of the Muslim people he's talking about the extremists or "ISIS", not the whole Muslim religion or Arabic people. When he speaks of Mexicans, he's talking about "illegal immigration" and keeping them out. People need to really start doing their research rather than getting all their information through the media or from a friend.
     

    Somewhere_

    i don't know where
  • 4,494
    Posts
    8
    Years
    Look, I'm going to vote for whoever ends up against Trump, but I'm not going to be silent about how I feel and overlook the problems. If Clinton is so weak that a few harsh words from Sanders and his supporters is enough to make her lose an election then she probably wouldn't have won in the first place had Sanders never entered the race. All she has to do is adopt a few progressive stances, admit that she isn't perfect and that *gasp* she has been mistaken in the past and gotten better and that would greatly close up the sincerity gap and endear her to a lot of Bernie supporters and clench the election for her.

    I just found a poll that but Gary Johnson at 18% against Clinton and Trump (Weld is VP). Im not left-wing, but Clinton seems watered down to me... at least Bernie has principles. You probably know the Sanders community better than me, but I see a lot of Bernie or Bust stuff. Do you think they will prefer Jill Stein over Clinton? Im predicting the Green Party to get a larger percent of the vote this election than any other previous election.

    As much as I dislike Trump, I dont think he is racist. I have to agree with @ShinyUmbreon here.
     
  • 10,769
    Posts
    14
    Years
    The man DOES NOT come off as racist, Muslim isn't a race it's a religion, they are actually "Arabs" and when he speaks of the Muslim people he's talking about the extremists or "ISIS", not the whole Muslim religion or Arabic people. When he speaks of Mexicans, he's talking about "illegal immigration" and keeping them out. People need to really start doing their research rather than getting all their information through the media or from a friend.

    But that's, like, exactly how racism works. You don't specify, you lump in all of one group of people. Same with islamophobia and similar things. I mean, when you say "Muslims" and not "ISIS" or "ISIL" or "Al Qaeda" then you're saying not just "ISIS" or "ISIL" or "Al Qaeda" but all Muslims. That's just, like, how language works. And that's the intention, to get people stoked up by playing on their phobias and prejudices. So, like, it doesn't matter that Trump or others say "oh, when I said that I meant something else" because he keeps doing it. Plus, like, you can't say something and then after the fact claim it means something else.

    I just found a poll that but Gary Johnson at 18% against Clinton and Trump (Weld is VP). Im not left-wing, but Clinton seems watered down to me... at least Bernie has principles. You probably know the Sanders community better than me, but I see a lot of Bernie or Bust stuff. Do you think they will prefer Jill Stein over Clinton? Im predicting the Green Party to get a larger percent of the vote this election than any other previous election.

    I think if they know about Stein lots would prefer her, but that most will not vote for a third party, but then I don't know a lot of people.
     

    Somewhere_

    i don't know where
  • 4,494
    Posts
    8
    Years
    But that's, like, exactly how racism works. You don't specify, you lump in all of one group of people. Same with islamophobia and similar things. I mean, when you say "Muslims" and not "ISIS" or "ISIL" or "Al Qaeda" then you're saying not just "ISIS" or "ISIL" or "Al Qaeda" but all Muslims. That's just, like, how language works. And that's the intention, to get people stoked up by playing on their phobias and prejudices. So, like, it doesn't matter that Trump or others say "oh, when I said that I meant something else" because he keeps doing it. Plus, like, you can't say something and then after the fact claim it means something else.



    I think if they know about Stein lots would prefer her, but that most will not vote for a third party, but then I don't know a lot of people.

    I think the LP can get 15%- a recent poll shows Gary Johnson at 18%, and thats all they need to end the two party system. I am a Libertarian, but I dont mind the pseudo-libertarian Gary Johnson and William Weld combo because they can end the two party system, which I believe to be destructive.

    I think you might be right though- a lot of people may vote Clinton simply to vote out Trump and a lot of people may vote Trump to vote out Hillary.

    Racism: "the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races." While Trump is anti-immigration, this does not make him racist. He does not claim that whites are superior to other races- that is unscientific and philosophically inconsistent. There are many other reasons he wants closed borders (I'm not agreeing with him): less money distributed to the immigrants in subsidies and helping prevent terrorism (the merits of this I am skeptical of). But a lot of people within the Alt-Right movement also suggest that this is a matter of keeping the Western values and culture that have been fought and built up over centuries, and the idea is to retain these values because the other cultures either lack them or contradict them (basically borders acting as cultural barriers). Again, not agreeing, but the reasons are not out of racism (although Im sure there are some like that, but not Trump), but for practical purposes.
     

    ShinyUmbreon189

    VLONE coming soon
  • 1,461
    Posts
    12
    Years
    shinyumbreon189 you say he isnt racist but like...the majority of hispanics disagree with you on that.

    That's because they think he's taking about all hispanics when he's not. He's only talking about the illegal immigrants, and even then he's just saying he wants them out and to stop them from immigrating. How is that racist? It's not like he said he wants to return every hispanic back to Mexico, just the illegal ones. If that's racist then this country is at the point of no return screwed and might as well go back to the old days of grouping races and not allowing them to interact with eachother. This shits getting ridiculous. America back to their old games again, history always repeats itself.
     
  • 10,769
    Posts
    14
    Years
    Trump has not claimed to be a racist, no. But if we define racists based on self-identification there wouldn't be very many racists. We know there are a lot more. A lot of it is thinly-veiled suggestions and insinuations such as when a judge, Gonzalo Curiel, ordered recently to have some documents unsealed (related to the Trump University controversy) and Trump has to mention at a rally that the judge is "Mexican" - the judge was born in Indiana, not Mexico - because he's, what, being thorough? He's trying to associate being Mexican with being something bad. That's racist.
     

    pastelspectre

    Memento Mori★
  • 2,167
    Posts
    14
    Years
    I will contribute hello. I do not like Trump. He is racist, sexist and overall a bad choice for a president. I prefer Bernie. He will do better, I believe. That is all. I shall say nothing more.
     

    Ivysaur

    Grass dinosaur extraordinaire
  • 21,082
    Posts
    17
    Years
    News alert: if every superdelegate voted for the candidate winning in their state (acting like winner-takes-all delegates or something), Clinton would still win because she has won more states. And, as Nate Silver said, if the big plan is getting superdelegates to support Sanders despite Clinton winning the primary, well, I'm sure the people who voted for Clinton (who are the majority) will take it nicely, won't they?

    I mean. Whoever wins will be a mess. But only one of the two can claim she's won the primary. Much as I would like Sanders to be the candidate, this is pretty much the same as if the Republicans had maneuvered to get Cruz in the convention.

    Two interesting articles: Sanders isn't doing well with "true" independents (he's just sweeping every democratic voter who calls herself an independent) and The system isn't rigged against Sanders - he's just getting fewer votes than Clinton
     
    Last edited:
  • 10,769
    Posts
    14
    Years
    Clinton may have more votes, but lots of people aren't going to forget how she got those votes with the help of the mainstream media who have been far and away Clinton supporters (if they're not Republicans) and hardly ever gave Sanders a fair shot. I mean, after every debate they said "Clinton won" regardless of how the debate went. If you just read the headlines you'd think Sanders was an escapee from a mental institution or a bomb throwing communist. And plenty of people do only read the headlines, if that. The media completely failed in their duty as an institution of democracy, that is, informing the voting public.
     
  • 10,769
    Posts
    14
    Years
    Feels like they were trying to color the vote tomorrow to stave off a bad show in California. People, for some reason, often like to vote for whoever is "winning" and Clinton certainly wants to have the title going into the vote tomorrow. I think it's a mistake. This is going to create a lot of "Bernie or Bust" people.
     

    Desert Stream~

    Holy Kipper!
  • 3,269
    Posts
    8
    Years
    • She/Her
    • Seen Aug 20, 2023
    So I'm assuming 2 people can't win the nomination? That's too bad... Although I would be happy with Hilary as well.
     

    Ivysaur

    Grass dinosaur extraordinaire
  • 21,082
    Posts
    17
    Years
    Feels like they were trying to color the vote tomorrow to stave off a bad show in California. People, for some reason, often like to vote for whoever is "winning" and Clinton certainly wants to have the title going into the vote tomorrow. I think it's a mistake. This is going to create a lot of "Bernie or Bust" people.

    Well, actually 2.8 million votes have already been cast in California (Clinton is leading 56-44, by roughly 216,000 votes), where early voting is massive. That's over half the total votes recorded in the 2008 primary, and considering turnout has been dropping this year compared to last time, I don't think this call will affect the result that badly. Either there is a massive flood of millions of "Bernie or bust" voters created overnight or he's just going to win/lose by slightly more/less than otherwise (say, 100k votes one way or another).

    It is going to affect the narrative though, because now any victory of hers (538 give her a 80+% chance of winning and the early vote results support that) will be dismissed as a result of the early call distorting the vote. She's going to win, but I'm pretty sure this primary is not what she had wanted in the slightest. Now her future rests on the way she'll accomodate the Bernie voters.
     

    Nah

  • 15,956
    Posts
    10
    Years
    • Age 31
    • she/her, they/them
    • Seen today
    woo can finally fucking vote in the primaries

    Besides New Jersey and California, what other states are voting today?
     
  • 10,769
    Posts
    14
    Years
    I went and voted as soon as the polls opened at 7 AM today because I had to turn in my NPP (no party preference) mail vote (because it didn't include a presidental candidate option) and I was worried they might not have enough if I waited until later. The little old ladies running the thing were a little confused at first, but at least it got sorted out and I didn't end up with a provisional ballot, which I was worried might happen.

    Well, actually 2.8 million votes have already been cast in California (Clinton is leading 56-44, by roughly 216,000 votes), where early voting is massive. That's over half the total votes recorded in the 2008 primary, and considering turnout has been dropping this year compared to last time, I don't think this call will affect the result that badly. Either there is a massive flood of millions of "Bernie or bust" voters created overnight or he's just going to win/lose by slightly more/less than otherwise (say, 100k votes one way or another).

    It is going to affect the narrative though, because now any victory of hers (538 give her a 80+% chance of winning and the early vote results support that) will be dismissed as a result of the early call distorting the vote. She's going to win, but I'm pretty sure this primary is not what she had wanted in the slightest. Now her future rests on the way she'll accomodate the Bernie voters.
    Maybe, but I'm seeing more Hillary bumper stickers and signs today than I've ever seen so I'm just going to have to wait and see how things turn out. There are a lot of vote by mail people here, yes, but there has also been a surge of voter registration so how it goes could be pretty lopsided depending.

    woo can finally ****ing vote in the primaries

    Besides New Jersey and California, what other states are voting today?
    Today it's California, New Jersey, Montana, New Mexico, South Dakota, and North Dakota (which is a caucus).
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Nah
  • 611
    Posts
    9
    Years
    A lot of it is thinly-veiled suggestions and insinuations such as when a judge, Gonzalo Curiel, ordered recently to have some documents unsealed (related to the Trump University controversy) and Trump has to mention at a rally that the judge is "Mexican" - the judge was born in Indiana, not Mexico - because he's, what, being thorough?
    In general, other than their not doing much to discourage such things, their platform is generally speaking less about overall political ideas - the actual conservatives in the Party were generally left on the margins - than specific groups of people, so in general xenophobia there need not be a surprise. In any case, other than that they don't always necessarily dissociate ISIS from other 'Islamics,' they generally speaking can't usually refer merely to Muslims meaning ISIS members, as people known to be ISIS members are in any case something that the US had a problem with.

    Clinton may have more votes, but lots of people aren't going to forget how she got those votes with the help of the mainstream media who have been far and away Clinton supporters (if they're not Republicans) and hardly ever gave Sanders a fair shot. I mean, after every debate they said "Clinton won" regardless of how the debate went.
    In general, that's quite a lot to advocate for a person voting on the apparently future President of the country. To actually get Sanders supporters somehow enthusiastic about such a campaign will probably turn into an even longer campaign of attacking Sanders supporters and Sanders by Clinton's in the hope that they will heel. By this amount of time trying to campaign against Sanders, and a no-holds barred approach to getting them away from the nomination, Clinton's campaign has likely ended up so conservative they might as well join whatever remains of the AFP.
     
  • 5,983
    Posts
    15
    Years
    That's mainly due to the results from early voting, which generally skew towards Clinton as they have been for pretty much the entire primaries. My body is ready for a Clinton nomination, but I hope that Bernie Sanders will continue to fight as hard as he can for a more progressive agenda.
     
  • 50,218
    Posts
    13
    Years
    Looks like it'll be Trump vs. Clinton for this race for President. If it appears to be the case, I'll definitely be Team Clinton because I heard Trump getting elected would see the arrival of bad things to come, in fact even my home country of Australia (who coincidentally are having an election early next month) are worried about Trump.
     

    Desert Stream~

    Holy Kipper!
  • 3,269
    Posts
    8
    Years
    • She/Her
    • Seen Aug 20, 2023
    Looks like it'll be Trump vs. Clinton for this race for President. If it appears to be the case, I'll definitely be Team Clinton because I heard Trump getting elected would see the arrival of bad things to come, in fact even my home country of Australia (who coincidentally are having an election early next month) are worried about Trump.

    I've heard lot's of countries are, and I'm not suprised. I can't believe the citizens of America could let this happen :p
     
  • 10,769
    Posts
    14
    Years
    It seems that today, it's painfully obvious that, from the impression that I've gotten from Sanders' speech, he'd rather see the world burn than to work with any sort of deal with Clinton. His tone has gotten increasingly hostile, as he continued on and on to attack the democratic establishment, and to an extent, Clinton. In his speech tonight (unless I've missed it), he didn't even bother attacking Trump. All he did was recycle the same "take the power away from the billionaire class, breaking big banks" etc etc.

    So wanting to take away the power of the super rich and powerful means he wants to see the world burn? I don't get the logic of that. I'm still not seeing how he is being hostile. He's never been hostile. Fired up, yes, but never hostile. He opposes systems that are unfair, but can one honestly call that hostile when he's merely responding to a kind of hostility that has always been opposed to changing for the better?

    Bernie needs to realize something: in order to accomplish that, we need to actually work together. And I think that kind of thing went way over his head. Strong-arming the Democratic Party is not the right way to go about with things...there's a process to everything. I will give Bernie a lot of credit for his movement and inspiring millions of young voters (many for the first time) to come out to the polls to vote for him. What I am not proud of, however, is that these days, I feel that he is doing nothing but satiating his own ego.

    Bernie is going through with the process which says that the nominee is chosen at the convention, not before. He is following the rules and he can stay in the race all he wants. There is no ego in this. It's about being the voice for all the people within the Democratic party who believe in the same things he does, as well as all the people who have come out to vote and participate in our democracy for the first time because they finally felt like there was someone who represented them.

    If Sanders was merely a candidate that was spreading a significant message and was moreso focused on calling attention to a particular cause, this action can be forgiven. After all, to call as much attention on your movement as possible, for the positive, seems like a good thing.

    Well, then we can agree because Sanders is a candidate who has a cause and is sending a message: political revolution. Change how we do democracy in this country to make it fairer and more inclusive.

    However, he's not. He legitimately thinks he can win. He legitimately thinks he can flip over hundreds of superdelegates, somehow convince them to turn their backs on the millions of people who have voted more for Clinton than Sanders, all for the sake of "well I do better in general election polls than Clinton does vs Trump". Keep in mind that's his only argument. That's it. He cannot come up with any good reason why he cannot connect with Hispanic voters, he cannot come up with any good reason why he cannot connect with minority voters, or African-Americans, or people in his own age bracket. He cannot come up with any good reason why he's losing in the popular vote. His only reason for pleading with the superdelegates--a group in which he's been slamming on--is merely because of arbitrary polling.

    Sanders himself won't say so because he's too polite, but one reason he's losing votes is because of election fraud. That aside, the mainstream media has been influencing people to vote for Clinton over him since the beginning. Both very undemocratic things.

    Meanwhile, while I watch Clinton's speech, I actually see someone that wants to work to fix the nation, to continue Obama's legacy, but at the same time, start her own legacy. She extends a hand over to Sanders and his supporters, she wants to focus on the general election and to call attention on how unqualified Trump is to be president. Her speech feels a lot more personal, a lot more human than Sanders, and a lot more people can relate with it. I truly think Clinton has finally found her narrative within the voters, and it's appealing to their emotions. Sure, Clinton won't rile up people and drive them nuts like Sanders did with his supporters and Obama before him, but Clinton has a different approach. Her approach is in sentimentalism, to establish feelings of sadness and happiness, and to inspire hope in her voters. To get them to look at reality for what it is, and what they can really achieve, and whats at stake, and to stress that out.

    What I'm getting here is that Clinton threw a bunch of pasta at the wall and finally found what sticks. I don't see her as being more personal or human than even Trump. Sanders is real. He's not changed his tune over the years and pretended he's always been what he is. That more people don't see that's what Clinton is doing is a shame, but people will be people. Sanders is, I think, a better person to continue in Obama's footsteps because he wouldn't be content to follow them, but to step ahead of them and do more. Single payer healthcare instead of the imperfect Obamacare. That kind of thing.

    The point of Clinton's speech is that we can all work together to build a better nation. It'll take a lot of work, to the point where even a Clinton presidency won't be enough, but it'll at the very least be a step forward. Sanders, however, gives off the message that he wants to upend everything and start all over. Is that really the direction that we want to go into? I'm really not sure, at least not compared to continuing things the way they are and possibly improving upon it.

    Why would you think Sanders wants to upend everything? What does he want to upend?

    What we need to keep in mind is that, if you really want to change the Democratic Party, you'll do so by electing the proper officials that closely aligns with the direction you want the party to go in. That's how the process works, and that's how the process has always worked.
    You change the Democratic Party (or any party) by making it easier for anyone to run for any office. You make it easier for people to vote. Right now the game is stacked against outsiders. That's how the process works, but it's not fair and it's not democratic. It has to be changed.
     
    Back
    Top