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Are you pro-gay or no-gay?

Pro-gay sounds kind of weird, but yes. I can't really afford not to be since then I would be against myself. xD I believe anyone should be allowed to marry and everyone deserves equal rights. I don't see why people place so much importance on gender but I guess I would think that, since to me it's practically not even a thing.
When I first clicked on this thread I expected it to be locked
Scarf said:
Btw, 'progay' sounds like some kind of pharmaceutical product. "Don't take Progay without first consulting your doctor."
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Ohgod I laughed. Hard. xD
 
Honestly, I don't think it's ri-

Wait! Wait! Let me finish!

I don't think it's right, but I also don't see any point in hating homosexuals. Homosexuality is, with a few very rare exceptions, not something that is consciously chosen. People can't be faulted for something they have no control over. Even if it was consciously chosen, there's still no reason to despise them. It's their choice, and a lifestyle isn't a human being. You have to separate the two.

I eat meat with every meal, yet I have no real problem with vegetarians, although I think vegetarianism is sort of silly. I don't agree with the lifestyle, but I'm not going to judge someone based off of one part of their life.

That said, I do not agree with homosexuality. I do not accept homosexual relations as equal to or superior to traditional marriages, and I still believe that the nuclear "mom and dad" family is the best option. The fact that people can choose it of their own free will does not require me to love and embrace it.

I love homosexuals, I do not love homosexuality. In a similar way, I love alcoholics, but I do not love alcoholism. I'm not going to go out of my way to show just how much I disagree with homosexuality, because, as we have all seen, that too often devolves into attacks against the person themselves.

Homosexuals aren't going to burn in hell. Homosexuals aren't inherently better, braver, or in any way superior to everyone else. They have a hard life because people are idiots, but so do many other people. Homosexuals have rights like any other human beings, but they do not have any claims to special treatment.
 
Im for gay rights. They arent hurting anybody, why not let them get married or adopt kids? I dont think there's anything wrong with that at all.
 
Shanghai Alice said:
That said, I do not agree with homosexuality. I do not accept homosexual relations as equal to or superior to traditional marriages, and I still believe that the nuclear "mom and dad" family is the best option. The fact that people can choose it of their own free will does not require me to love and embrace it.
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You say that as if traditional marriage is superior to homosexual marriage, which it isn't, there's no "hierarchy" in marriages. There can't be, it depends on the people, not their sexuality? And you say that the "mom and dad" is still the best or whatever, but so do you think divorces shouldn't be allowed then? There's a LOT of broken marriages and those are definitely not what you'd want over same-sex marriage.
So because you say you don't agree with homosexual marriage because you stick to the "mom and dad" idea, you shouldn't agree with divorces being allowed either. You do though, because that is people's freedom - just like it should be their freedom to get married to whoever they want.
That said I still stick to the post I made earlier.
 
I'm pro-bi. I don't think anyone goes for one gender or the other. I think if we all lived for 500 years we would get bored of the gender we prefer. So I think that no matter what one person says they are or what they feel, they are not 100%. So I don't believe in the concept of straight or gay. I believe in attraction and exception.
 
Yoshikkko said:
You say that as if traditional marriage is superior to homosexual marriage, which it isn't, there's no "hierarchy" in marriages. There can't be, it depends on the people, not their sexuality? And you say that the "mom and dad" is still the best or whatever, but so do you think divorces shouldn't be allowed then?
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I believe that the nuclear, traditional family, when done correctly, is still one of the most stable types, especially when children are involved.

Yes, there is a high divorce rate. I think that that's more due to the "disposable" nature of marriages, and the fact that couples tend to split more easily when things get tough.

There's a LOT of broken marriages and those are definitely not what you'd want over same-sex marriage.
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I'm not referring to broken marriages, I'm referring to a whole, working heterosexual marriage.

That is similar to stating that X itself is flawed because a lot of people break X. My car works well, even though there are a lot of broken cars.

So because you say you don't agree with homosexual marriage because you stick to the "mom and dad" idea, you shouldn't agree with divorce being allowed either.
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Point out to me where I said it should not be allowed, please. I merely stated that I did not agree with it. I at least have that right, correct? As I said earlier, just because I'm not all for alcoholism doesn't mean I want Prohibition.

Additionally, I have no problem with legitimate civil divorces. There are some marriages where one of the two needs to get out for their own safety. I understand that.

However, divorces aren't the issue here.

You do though, because that is people's freedom - just like it should be their freedom to get married to whoever they want.
That said I still stick to the post I made earlier.
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It is m freedom to get drunk out of my mind after I turn 21.

I acknowledge that people have freedom. I am not obligated to accept everything.
 
Yoshikkko, Shanghai Alice... let's not get too "Other Chat"-y in here, OK? The good thing about having this thread in a place like OVP is that people can say what they feel without being held accountable to anybody.

--

I think it goes without saying that I'm pro-gay everything. I'm also of the more controversial opinion that if you're not gay yourself or don't have a direct stake in the issue (or any issue for that matter, this isn't specific to LGBT rights) then you don't have the right to an opinion on it. The great problem with the LGBT rights issue (and with the democratic system in general) is that everybody gets a vote, when this is not an 'everyone' issue. It's quite simple, really: if something doesn't affect you, you shouldn't have the right to say anything about it. It's like a stranger going up to a woman and saying "I don't agree with the way you're raising your child". Well that's great, but it is none of your goddamn business.

I guess my issue is that it's none of the public's business what gay people do, yet the public is being handed the power to decide what they're allowed to do. Then you have the LGBT community out there campaigning for their votes when they shouldn't even get one. They shouldn't be burdened with having to form an opinion one way or the other because their opinion on what other random strangers are allowed to do shouldn't even be considered. It should be completely irrelevant.
 
Shining Raichu said:
Yoshikkko, Shanghai Alice... let's not get too "Other Chat"-y in here, OK? The good thing about having this thread in a place like OVP is that people can say what they feel without being held accountable to anybody.

--

I think it goes without saying that I'm pro-gay everything. I'm also of the more controversial opinion that if you're not gay yourself or don't have a direct stake in the issue (or any issue for that matter, this isn't specific to LGBT rights) then you don't have the right to an opinion on it. The great problem with the LGBT rights issue (and with the democratic system in general) is that everybody gets a vote, when this is not an 'everyone' issue. It's quite simple, really: if something doesn't affect you, you shouldn't have the right to say anything about it. It's like a stranger going up to a woman and saying "I don't agree with the way you're raising your child". Well that's great, but it is none of your goddamn business.

I guess my issue is that it's none of the public's business what gay people do, yet the public is being handed the power to decide what they're allowed to do. Then you have the LGBT community out there campaigning for their votes when they shouldn't even get one. They shouldn't be burdened with having to form an opinion one way or the other because their opinion on what other random strangers are allowed to do shouldn't even be considered. It should be completely irrelevant.
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Uh well, Razor Leaf did say upon moving this thread that if it did turn out into a discussion at one point, it could always be moved back, so that shouldn't be a problem I think.

And I'm gonna agree with Gavin btw, I don't generally like the labels and it's never really exact, it's just a whole spectrum.
 
Harlequin said:
Since I am still yet to hear a valid reason as to why gays should not have the same rights as everyone else, I'm pro-common sense.
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I'm pretty much in the same boat. There hasn't been too much to convince me why they shouldn't have the same rights as everyone else, because at the end of the day, they're still people.
 
People who say homosexual couples aren't equal to heterosexual couples in terms of a "family unit" don't understand that sexuality has nothing to do with gender roles. I just felt like throwing that out there after reading a few of the comments here.

I'm pro-gay, as you put it, by the way.
 
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I agree with Gavin, Went, and Kura (and I guess those who said pro-gay as well) and think Shanghai Alice's long-winded replies are silly. :P

I also agree with Andrew's position. If it doesn't affect you or relate to you in a way that's passed "I saw two men making out I am so offended!!!" your opinion means nothing and you shouldn't have a right to make a decision on the matter that affects not you, but other people.
 
First of all: best title ever.

Second of all:



Third of all: Why do we have to make such a big deal about this? As long as people are happy and not hurting anyone, who are we to deny their happiness?
 
Being "pro-gay" seems similar to saying I'm pro-biscuit, really (even if I totally am pro-biscuit). But it's sexuality, to me I don't understand how it's something you can be for or against, or agree or disagree with. It isn't a concept someone's thought up, it's a part of who someone is. You can dislike it, like disliking green eyes (for example) but you can't disagree with someone having green eyes.

I don't know if that makes sense/if I articulated it well. But it's what leads me to say we should all have equal rights, and that shouldn't be affected by disliking or not understanding a sexuality.
 
Why do so many people believe that gay people are trying to get "special treatment"?

It's a simple yet difficult idea for some people to grasp, but if people put a situation in perspective, or put themselves in one's shoes, then it makes more sense.

For instance, in many states, gay people can be fired simply for being gay; some may ask, "1) why do we need a law that says that gay people should have equal protection from unfair labor practices in the work place? 2) Isn't that special treatment/rights?"

1) It is a problem. In 2005, 4 in 10 LGBT people (opposed to 0 in 10 heterosexual people) had expressed discrimination based off sexual orientation, since most states do not have anti-discriminatory laws based off sexual orientation, thereby enabling employers to treat LGBT employees unfairly from their heterosexual counterparts without any consequences. So, there is a problem if millions of Americans are expressing discrimination without any legal grounds to do anything.

2) There is not any special treatment. Such laws protect everyone who has a sexual orientation, it doesn't state that only gay people are protected based off sexual orientation.

Mr Cat Dog said:
First of all: best title ever.

Second of all:



Third of all: Why do we have to make such a big deal about this? As long as people are happy and not hurting anyone, who are we to deny their happiness?
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LMAO!

I forgot about that movie!
 
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I'm totally fine with it, but I do feel a little awkward when I see gay people talking about their relationships around me. But yeah, that's just because of how I was growing up lol, people didn't really start being open about it until recently (that and my parents are Christian). >:
 
-ty- said:
Why do so many people believe that gay people are trying to get "special treatment"?

It's a simple yet difficult idea for some people to grasp, but if people put a situation in perspective, or put themselves in one's shoes, then it makes more sense.

For instance, in many states, gay people can be fired simply for being gay; some may ask, "1) why do we need a law that says that gay people should have equal protection from unfair labor practices in the work place? 2) Isn't that special treatment/rights?"

1) It is a problem. In 2005, 4 in 10 LGBT people (opposed to 0 in 10 heterosexual people) had expressed discrimination based off sexual orientation, since most states do not have anti-discriminatory laws based off sexual orientation, thereby enabling employers to treat LGBT employees unfairly from their heterosexual counterparts without any consequences. So, there is a problem if millions of Americans are expressing discrimination without any legal grounds to do anything.

2) There is not any special treatment. Such laws protect everyone who has a sexual orientation, it doesn't state that only gay people are protected based off sexual orientation.



LMAO!

I forgot about that movie!
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Agreed, but I just really hope it doesn't start to become the whole "filling a quota" thing. I know quite a few people who have been turned down from a job just because they WEREN'T a visible minority (which is discrimination in itself, really,) and not due to any sort of lack of qualifications. Ridiculous! People have to stop judging others on these frivolous things and just see people as just that: people.
 
I wouldn't say I'm "pro-gay". That makes it sound more like a lifestyle choice, which is not the case.

So, I'll instead say that I support gay rights.

Kura said:
Agreed, but I just really hope it doesn't start to become the whole "filling a quota" thing. I know quite a few people who have been turned down from a job just because they WEREN'T a visible minority (which is discrimination in itself, really,) and not due to any sort of lack of qualifications. Ridiculous! People have to stop judging others on these frivolous things and just see people as just that: people.
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Also, to add to that. Can we be a bit more careful on how we toss around the term "hate crime"? With any minority. A crime isn't worse if it was done to person of a minority, but it is worse if them being a minority was the "cause". I think we need highlight that distinction.
 
I am sorta on the no-gay side here. Its completely wrong to me, being Christian. Its completely unnatural and shouldn't exist, but I don't have a problem with it as long as I am not involved with any of them. But what I have a problem with is the fact that they call it marriage. It angers me that both normal people who are attracted to the normal gender and gays get the same title of "marriage." Call it something else, and I'm fine with it so long as they stay away from me.
 
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