artificial RED | Complete 721 Pok?mon rombase | Update 12/08/16 | Version 1.1

[pokefreak890]

As well as only one form of basculin since not many use him otherwise the forms and formes should all be included

 

[Angry_Bird404]

I say trim down the forms for space and to save you less work. I understand the feeling for wanting to be future-proofed.

 

[Blah]

You can just put all the forms into one picture, then it takes up only one slot. From there, it's a couple hooks to load the correct picture based on the form.
If I made this, would it save you some headaches?

EDIT: To clarify, it'd look like this:

This way Deoxys takes up one slot in the Pokedex, while retaining more than one form. Something like Arceus which is simply just a recolor with only pals & type changing is even easier to write code for.

 

[Aussie Riolu]

I reckon there's no need for the aesthetic forms (Furfrou, Vivillon, Keldeo etc) which would save you 50+ slots.

 

[Epsilon]

You can just put all the forms into one picture, then it takes up only one slot. From there, it's a couple hooks to load the correct picture based on the form.
If I made this, would it save you some headaches?

EDIT: To clarify, it'd look like this:

This way Deoxys takes up one slot in the Pokedex, while retaining more than one form. Something like Arceus which is simply just a recolor with only pals & type changing is even easier to write code for.

It definitely would! Only one thing, because of sprite animations, each Pokémon already needs a 64x128 front and backsprite, but that shouldn't be too hard to implement. I'm curious what you'll come up with!

 

[AtecainCorp.]

It was not true that Zygarde forme is not avaible in games. My hack have it in the code. So if you want. I can share it with you.

 

[pokefreak890]

FBI's way really caught my eye u can save 50+ slots just by this it seems like a good idea

 

[Zombilon]

Yeah, definitely don't even bother with cosmetic/alternate forms. Not worth the time. Maybe in the future when hackers discover something that allows them to do whatever they want with a game, but not until then.lol
Great work though (:
I also agree with the releasing of a 'beta version' before starting on the generation 7 poke.

 

[Marky Vigoroth]

Yes: Deoxys, Burmy, Wormadam, Rotom, Giratina, Tornadus, Thundrus, Landorus, Darmanitan, Kyuren, Meloetta, Meowstic (The two genders have different movesets.), Aegislash, Hoopa, Shaymin,
No: Shellos, Gastrodon, Arceus (Just change the type internally; there should be no need to change the palettes.), Genesect (Just change the type internally; there should be no need to change the palettes.), Basculin, Keldeo (The change is merely cosmetic.), Zygarde (There is not enough information on the different formes; plus, the other Zygarde formes may end up cartoon-only.)
Maybe: Frillish, Jellicent, Unfezant, Pyroar, Pumpkaboo (I am unsure on this...), Gourgeist (I am unsure on this...)

 

[jalil1m]

I'm liking FBI's way of doing things

 

[thedarkdragon11]

What FBI said could really save lots of slots! I've been wondering for months if that's actually possible and it seems to be so...

Castform, Spinda, Genesect, Arceus and the significant female forms (minus Meowstic because it has moveset difference so it needs a separate slot) can just use sprite change based on aspects the hold item, weather or gender... That saves 27 slots for a non-stat and move-related changes... The rest of cosmetic-only changes (Basculin, Shellos, Gastrodon, Keldeo), you can drop...

You also said that you will need 51 slots for ME and PR, what could be the 51st since ME only has 48 and PR only has 2?

 

[Blah]

What FBI said could really save lots of slots! I've been wondering for months if that's actually possible and it seems to be so...

Castform, Spinda, Genesect, Arceus and the significant female forms (minus Meowstic because it has moveset difference so it needs a separate slot) can just use sprite change based on aspects the hold item, weather or gender... That saves 27 slots for a non-stat and move-related changes... The rest of cosmetic-only changes (Basculin, Shellos, Gastrodon, Keldeo), you can drop...

You also said that you will need 51 slots for ME and PR, what could be the 51st since ME only has 48 and PR only has 2?

Actually, even those Pokemon only need 1 slot too. Stat changes just means not only the sprite changing, but a tad but more too -- there's absolutely no issue binding it to one species index. I think that if these Pokemon existing in Generation 3, GameFreak would code it my way :)

EDIT: Also Spinda is fine, you can use the game engine to do spinda. The dots are directly drawn onto the sprite at runtime. Cheers!

@Epsilon - I'll start working on this then, and update you when I make progress.


EDIT2:
Well, that was easier than I expected.
https://imgur.com/a/TcZSY

Made Rattata change pics based on it's gender. I've also managed to do the same using PID and location. I'm going to find the other hooks and make this more expandible. Can you make me a list of how the different forms will be determined, for example via gender, location...ect.

 

[bcrobert]

Actually, even those Pokemon only need 1 slot too. Stat changes just means not only the sprite changing, but a tad but more too -- there's absolutely no issue binding it to one species index. I think that if these Pokemon existing in Generation 3, GameFreak would code it my way :)

EDIT: Also Spinda is fine, you can use the game engine to do spinda. The dots are directly drawn onto the sprite at runtime. Cheers!

@Epsilon - I'll start working on this then, and update you when I make progress.


EDIT2:
Well, that was easier than I expected.
https://imgur.com/a/TcZSY

Made Rattata change pics based on it's gender. I've also managed to do the same using PID and location. I'm going to find the other hooks and make this more expandible. Can you make me a list of how the different forms will be determined, for example via gender, location...ect.

Excellent mechanic FBI! I agree that this seems more Gamefreak-esque than slapping a bunch of extra "species" into the game. Otherwise Unown would take up almost 30 slots all by its lonesome. :P

So I assume by "expandable" you mean to cover the other things a form change can entail? Like Arceus' type change, as a minimal example? Or can this mechanic only cover permanent values like Shellos' color scheme?

 

[Epsilon]

Actually, even those Pokemon only need 1 slot too. Stat changes just means not only the sprite changing, but a tad but more too -- there's absolutely no issue binding it to one species index. I think that if these Pokemon existing in Generation 3, GameFreak would code it my way :)

EDIT: Also Spinda is fine, you can use the game engine to do spinda. The dots are directly drawn onto the sprite at runtime. Cheers!

@Epsilon - I'll start working on this then, and update you when I make progress.


EDIT2:
Well, that was easier than I expected.
https://imgur.com/a/TcZSY

Made Rattata change pics based on it's gender. I've also managed to do the same using PID and location. I'm going to find the other hooks and make this more expandible. Can you make me a list of how the different forms will be determined, for example via gender, location...ect.

So awesome!

So, some forms also have different cries, so that's a matter of changing the number from the Hoenn cry conversion table.

How forms will be determined:
Which area it last battled (grassy or water, sandy or rocky, building or urban in case of Burmy)
Depending on weather
Depending on where caught
Changing forms using object (Rotom, Deoxys)
While holding an item
Shaymin: When exposed to a Gracidea, Shaymin transforms into its Sky Forme, which is Grass/Flying-type and white in color; however, Shaymin's Sky Forme will change back into its Land Forme at night, while frozen, or when deposited into the PC
Depending on season
Kyurem: In the games, Kyurem changes its form through the use of the DNA Splicers, which fuses it with Reshiram or Zekrom. The combination retains Kyurem's Poké Ball and held item. This fusion is reversible, with Reshiram or Zekrom remaining unaltered from before being fused, including whatever item it may have been holding. The DNA Splicers can only fuse one Kyurem at a time. White Kyurem and Black Kyurem cannot be deposited into Pokémon Bank, nor can they be traded.
If it knows a certain move
If it uses a certain move in battle
Different forms for inside and outside of battle

 

[Munichtastics]

As i said in the private message aswell.
Ur doing an incredible amazing job man.
Cant wait for the release to start my hack!! :-D

 

[pokefreak890]

this is amazing work FBI cant wait to see it completed on all the forms/formes

 

[miniking]

I have a great comment/opnion for your and your job in next steps:
Now the next gen is in the release(Dezember), and with this information , we can speculate this :
Sun/Moon
+/- 150 new pokes
+/- 30 New Forms(mega too)
+/- 30 New Habilities
+/- 50 New Movies
+/- 25 New TM
+/- 25 New Itens
Maybe a New Type*

You 'll want to implement all this?
If Yes - It will be takes a considerable space for the skills, moves
Thus already recommended (if it works to all forms in a single slot): Remove animations (are very superficial pro purpose of this base) getting more space, someone to help add the effects of movies and skills, and see how much space would be necesssary.In short, make a base with only the necessary cleaner for future Expansion.
In this way just put the big changes sprite, to change some stats, skill or something.

I really hope you can make this base hack get really full, for that in the future may appear many, many new hacks. Continue your amazing work, not no requirement to hurry, do a job well done and minimalist, so in the future will be the most used base of all time.
Great job, do not give up and be committed until the end, we will be here helped whenever possible. Thank you for being in bringing so many constant updates.

 

[Blah]

Excellent mechanic FBI! I agree that this seems more Gamefreak-esque than slapping a bunch of extra "species" into the game. Otherwise Unown would take up almost 30 slots all by its lonesome. :P

So I assume by "expandable" you mean to cover the other things a form change can entail? Like Arceus' type change, as a minimal example? Or can this mechanic only cover permanent values like Shellos' color scheme?

This actually does have same obvious limitations. Basically, if the form change requires a stats switch based on a table browsed by species, it'd require much more work. For example things which cause the Pokemon to change it's learnable moves I can't do with this kind of hack, as moves learned depends on the base stat table (which is indexed by species). A good example is Giratina Origin form. His base stats change and it's almost a completely different Pokemon. There are just too many X-refs to the base stat table to make it worth not using a species slot. Also Wormadam.

I can do something like Burmy (but not Wormadam) or Shellos who's change is more permanent. I can also do Arceus and all of it's forms.

EDIT:
I lied. I'm so good at hacking that this doesn't even apply to me. Anyways, I can do base stat changes, the only thing I can't do is if it learns different moves. :)

So awesome!

So, some forms also have different cries, so that's a matter of changing the number from the Hoenn cry conversion table.

How forms will be determined:
Which area it last battled (grassy or water, sandy or rocky, building or urban in case of Burmy)
Depending on weather
Depending on where caught
Changing forms using object (Rotom, Deoxys)
While holding an item
Shaymin: When exposed to a Gracidea, Shaymin transforms into its Sky Forme, which is Grass/Flying-type and white in color; however, Shaymin's Sky Forme will change back into its Land Forme at night, while frozen, or when deposited into the PC
Depending on season
Kyurem: In the games, Kyurem changes its form through the use of the DNA Splicers, which fuses it with Reshiram or Zekrom. The combination retains Kyurem's Poké Ball and held item. This fusion is reversible, with Reshiram or Zekrom remaining unaltered from before being fused, including whatever item it may have been holding. The DNA Splicers can only fuse one Kyurem at a time. White Kyurem and Black Kyurem cannot be deposited into Pokémon Bank, nor can they be traded.
If it knows a certain move
If it uses a certain move in battle
Different forms for inside and outside of battle

First of all, I'd like to point out that this hack won't cover changes which happen mid-battle. For example Cherrim's change when it's sunny. For something like that, you'd have to hack the battle engine.

Weather - Can do (again, not if it happens mid battle)
Burmy - Can do (I can't do Wormadam though)
Catch location - Can do (if it doesn't learn different moves)
Item holding - Can do
Shaymin - I can't do this part, "change back into its Land Forme while frozen", the rest is OK
Kyurem - This is a different kind of hack, which would require more backbone infrastructure to be in-place. Though it can be done.
Knows a move - As long as it doesn't need to transform DURING the battle.
If it uses a certain move in battle - Can't do, atleast without more hacks working in conjunction. Similar to Kyurem.
Different Forms inside and outside - Can do

So basically, Kyurem, Shaymin (to a degree), Wormadam, Rotom forms, and "uses a move in battle" I can't do using this hack. The rest seem OK to me. I think the forms for the Pokemon I've mentioned are more like evolution paths than actual forms. For example, Burmy would be like eevee and the evolution are similar to Wormadam (types, base stats, learn moves ect.).

--
So there are limitations here for some of them, simply because they transform during the middle of the battle (like castform) or they don't learn the same moves as the base form (like Wormadam).

That said, the reality of the matter is that there are WAYYY too many hooks changes needed to be written, as almost every Pokemon with a form is an edge case. So it becomes difficult to insert. It may be easier for me to either
A) Do this after you finish
B) Do them now, if you've got the base Pokemon inserted (so if you had Giratina inserted already, I can do Origin form).

I'd need the graphics with both frames for the alternate form. Whichever you'd prefer.

 

[BluRose]

Spoiler:

This actually does have same obvious limitations. Basically, if the form change requires a stats switch based on a table browsed by species, it'd require much more work. For example things which cause the Pokemon to change it's learnable moves I can't do with this kind of hack, as moves learned depends on the base stat table (which is indexed by species). A good example is Giratina Origin form. His base stats change and it's almost a completely different Pokemon. There are just too many X-refs to the base stat table to make it worth not using a species slot. Also Wormadam.

I can do something like Burmy (but not Wormadam) or Shellos who's change is more permanent. I can also do Arceus and all of it's forms.

EDIT:
I lied. I'm so good at hacking that this doesn't even apply to me. Anyways, I can do base stat changes, the only thing I can't do is if it learns different moves. :)



First of all, I'd like to point out that this hack won't cover changes which happen mid-battle. For example Cherrim's change when it's sunny. For something like that, you'd have to hack the battle engine.

Weather - Can do (again, not if it happens mid battle)
Burmy - Can do (I can't do Wormadam though)
Catch location - Can do (if it doesn't learn different moves)
Item holding - Can do
Shaymin - I can't do this part, "change back into its Land Forme while frozen", the rest is OK
Kyurem - This is a different kind of hack, which would require more backbone infrastructure to be in-place. Though it can be done.
Knows a move - As long as it doesn't need to transform DURING the battle.
If it uses a certain move in battle - Can't do, atleast without more hacks working in conjunction. Similar to Kyurem.
Different Forms inside and outside - Can do

So basically, Kyurem, Shaymin (to a degree), Wormadam, Rotom forms, and "uses a move in battle" I can't do using this hack. The rest seem OK to me. I think the forms for the Pokemon I've mentioned are more like evolution paths than actual forms. For example, Burmy would be like eevee and the evolution are similar to Wormadam (types, base stats, learn moves ect.).

--
So there are limitations here for some of them, simply because they transform during the middle of the battle (like castform) or they don't learn the same moves as the base form (like Wormadam).

That said, the reality of the matter is that there are WAYYY too many hooks changes needed to be written, as almost every Pokemon with a form is an edge case. So it becomes difficult to insert. It may be easier for me to either
A) Do this after you finish
B) Do them now, if you've got the base Pokemon inserted (so if you had Giratina inserted already, I can do Origin form).

I'd need the graphics with both frames for the alternate form. Whichever you'd prefer.

Wormadam's form is permanent upon evolution. All you'd need to do is change the evolution per Burmy form change...
Granted, this would require multiple index form(e)s, which is ehat you're trying to eliminate...

 

[Ayonn-]

YOU yes YOU ARE AWESOME ! Can't wait to see it finished !