Suggestion: Bringing back the Script Help thread and Simple Questions thread in the ROM hacking section

[DoesntKnowHowToPlay]

Back in the day when said threads existed, I had them subscribed. AS SOON AS SOMEONE POSTED I'd reply to them. Ask almost anyone here, karatekid and I were the known people to go to for help. Questions regarding asm or "hard stuff" was and will be answered by me. Easy to do. I personally almost never used the threads myself, but I did get replies if I didn't have anyone else to go to. I met some great people just from the threads, and almost everyone here knows that. I even got a helper award from the threads. Please bring them back, it's the best decision. I'd never ignore anybody on purpose. It's better this way.

Yo, I know it's the cool thing to be argumentative now, but I'd really like to see a response to this point as it's the most substantial thing I'm seeing on either side and it seems to be going completely ignored. Organization and tidiness goes both ways, but making it feasible for the experienced people to answer questions straight-forwardly is a pretty big deal. I personally don't subscribe to threads here but I'm in agreement that the old route was a better solution. Being someone who doesn't like answering questions unless I'm sure on the answer, it's much easier to peruse a single page for something I can confidently answer than to search fifty, especially when there's a bunch of hack proposals mixed in that I don't care about at all.

I've also heard gripes about the R&D and DCC stickies being swamped with questions now from people who don't notice Beginner's Lounge; I'm not inclined to do an objective search myself though as the mods (who can actually view snipped posts) would be better suited to verifying that.

 

[Shiny Quagsire]

Anyways, the Questions board is almost an entire spampit. Yeah, the threads are constructive, but wouldn't it also be more work to have to close threads rather than delete a few off-topic posts from a thread? There's just another reason to go back to a thread.

This and this so much is, in entirety, the problem I have with the Beginner Questions forum. It's good to have it and all, but honestly all it's done is both fragmented all the issues and solutions to said issues as well as increase the amount of spam in the forum. It hasn't done a thing to stop questions from being repeated, (just look at the 50 "I haz an idea for a hack" and "Can I haz all pokemon to X/Y in my hack?" threads) and overall the entire forum is a mess. I've personally tried to go in there and answer questions, but 90% of what's there is just horribly worded fluff posts wondering if something is possible, or really broad questions like "how do I do a script?", once again, repeated over and over again. At the most we need a script help thread because it was actually useful, even to people who weren't complete beginners. It was organized, and you could actually ask, recieve, and answer questions in an orderly format. I love answering people's questions, and I take a certain pride in helping people learn ROM Hacking. But this forum is really just becoming a honeypot of garbage which I just can't bear to even attempt to answer questions.

 

[El Héroe Oscuro]

It's not the hashtags, it's the fact that as a moderator she's condescending us and mocking me which Lance is trying to say we are doing to her. That's not the point, most of the hackers in the romhacking section will agree that karatekid552 is the only fair moderator right now. Hashtag is rude, insensitive, and many people are constantly complaining about how he acts as a moderator and a few have decided to quit logging into PC altogether because of it. Why do you think this thread is in this section and not in the major forum for Romhacking? We all knew that christos and hashtag would just put this thread on the back-burner and just ignore it altogether. At what point will the mods do something about what the users want? Especially when those users are the ones that fished out $25 just to get treated without care. Some of the people who want this are long-standing good members of PC dating back years and yet it's like no one wants to even take any of this into consideration. How about as moderators instead of complaining that there is no evidence that your choice is better or trying to defend your reasons for having made the changes, realize that a lot if not all of the hackers want those threads back and think your sudden and unannounced changes were not so good at all. Yeah this is a forum and you could put dickbutt on the front page if you wanted to, but if you want to keep your members you have to act like you care and by disregarding what we want, you're just making it worse. All it takes is two threads, are you kidding me? Is that so hard to ask for. They also need to be created by someone who has been an active member for awhile and is willing to continuously update the thread mainpages so that there is a nice archive of information much like Spherical Ice did with the Quick Resources thread here: LINK. Of course that idea got shot out of the water too and the mods took no notice to it. Is anyone going to act like they care about their members' opinions and bring back the features that we want?

Again, I don't know of past experiences that y'all have had with Christos, but going off of this discussion alone Christos has never once shut down your idea to bring these threads back. All and all he is just providing his side of the argument, and counter-arguing your points made. Does that make him a bad guy? No, of course not; he's just defending his choices which if you or I was in his position we would most likely do the same thing as well. He's not disregarding what you guys want; rather, it's a discussion in which he's trying to prove his point and you all are trying to prove your point. An end result will eventually be made, but a lot of you are jumping the gun because you think he's not acting in the best interest of the community, but is rather just failing to understand the argument being made by you guys on this point in time, which is why a decision hasn't been made yet. Again, if you read his posts, you'll see that there is no evidence of him shutting down your idea, but rather is questioning the positive results that can come from it.

 

[Mana1]

Morning~

I quite like the beginners forum. :< It has a sense of ease to it, and I think it eliminated a few problems that the threads had (/I imagined).

Spoiler:

For one, 'simple' always implied to me that questions shouldn't go there if there's any complexity to it. Whilst some users might, more recently, have been answering ASM questions there that wasn't always the case. The beginners lounge is much more open to a range of problems, all sorts of people seem to be posting in there for help (or offering assistance).

Another problem seemed to be that simple questions thread included many scripting questions anyway, maybe there was a bit of confusion around what that was but it was a pretty common thing.

One advantage of the lounge, as I see it, is how easy it is to find your answer. Finding your own thread is much easier and you don't have to work out which posts are a response to your question / flick over pages to find them / etc. It also allows for further discussion of a problem rather than just a quick reply - the simple/script problems often had many questions at once and people didn't get much further than "this is the answer".

At the end of the day, I think the Beginners Lounge is actually pretty good for beginners. Maybe a few tweaks/improvements can be made (sticky with a beginners guide/FAQ at the top? something to make the lounge more obvious?) but otherwise the way it works is pretty straight forward and easy to use.

 

[Christos]

They also need to be created by someone who has been an active member for awhile and is willing to continuously update the thread mainpages so that there is a nice archive of information much like Spherical Ice did with the Quick Resources thread here: LINK. Of course that idea got shot out of the water too and the mods took no notice to it. Is anyone going to act like they care about their members' opinions and bring back the features that we want?

We've made Spherical Ice the owner of that thread shortly after he had made that post, to update the first post regularly.

There's nothing wrong with posting your opinion but complaining about how this is not a "community" and us moderators do whatever we want isn't really helping. Since the Beginner's Lounge was created no major complaint was made, so of course nothing was done about it. I don't see how the staff don't care about what you want when this is one of the first suggestion threads about ROM hacking posted in the feedback forum.

Anyway, the original idea for the Beginner's Lounge was a section where anything is allowed, ROM hacks that wouldn't be approved in the other sections and any kind of help threads, the reason being tens of such threads were deleted daily as most of them belonged in the Simple Questions thread, or nowhere at all. I agree that this has resulted in a cluttered section with many pointless and repeated threads as well, but that's just how the threads were too, although smaller. We were also hoping that searching in a section where each question has its own title would be easier. The Lounge is a needed section, especially for beginners.

I do agree removing the two help threads wasn't really necessary, but since we were going for a whole sub-forum dedicated to ROM hacking help, we had to see how things would work out without those threads. Apparently this hasn't worked very well with the more experienced members. My current suggestion is getting the two threads back in the Beginner's Lounge section.

The two other moderators and I will discuss this and see what we can do. Though please keep in mind we're not going to scrap the Beginner's Lounge section and get the two threads back up straight away, so keep your "this is not a community, the mods are terrible" posts saved until we actually say we're not doing anything about this.

 

[Le pug]

We've made Spherical Ice the owner of that thread shortly after he had made that post, to update the first post regularly.

There's nothing wrong with posting your opinion but complaining about how this is not a "community" and us moderators do whatever we want isn't really helping. Since the Beginner's Lounge was created no major complaint was made, so of course nothing was done about it. I don't see how the staff don't care about what you want when this is one of the first suggestion threads about ROM hacking posted in the feedback forum.

Anyway, the original idea for the Beginner's Lounge was a section where anything is allowed, ROM hacks that wouldn't be approved in the other sections and any kind of help threads, the reason being tens of such threads were deleted daily as most of them belonged in the Simple Questions thread, or nowhere at all. I agree that this has resulted in a cluttered section with many pointless and repeated threads as well, but that's just how the threads were too, although smaller. We were also hoping that searching in a section where each question has its own title would be easier. The Lounge is a needed section, especially for beginners.

I do agree removing the two help threads wasn't really necessary, but since we were going for a whole sub-forum dedicated to ROM hacking help, we had to see how things would work out without those threads. Apparently this hasn't worked very well with the more experienced members. My current suggestion is getting the two threads back in the Beginner's Lounge section.

The two other moderators and I will discuss this and see what we can do. Though please keep in mind we're not going to scrap the Beginner's Lounge section and get the two threads back up straight away, so keep your "this is not a community, the mods are terrible" posts saved until we actually say we're not doing anything about this.

/Thread
(hopefully)

I think everyone can agree to not mind the beginner's lounge. It is a helpful tool for those who don't prefer the script help and simple questions threads but it seems to be something for beginners as Magic has said. Or just dumping all the threads that don't really fit anywhere else. But the more advanced hackers shouldn't in the sense be punished for that by losing our two threads. Hopefully you guys come to a consensus and agree to bring them back. :t202: Thanks for looking into it

 

[Banjora Marxvile]

We've made Spherical Ice the owner of that thread shortly after he had made that post, to update the first post regularly.

There's nothing wrong with posting your opinion but complaining about how this is not a "community" and us moderators do whatever we want isn't really helping. Since the Beginner's Lounge was created no major complaint was made, so of course nothing was done about it. I don't see how the staff don't care about what you want when this is one of the first suggestion threads about ROM hacking posted in the feedback forum.

Anyway, the original idea for the Beginner's Lounge was a section where anything is allowed, ROM hacks that wouldn't be approved in the other sections and any kind of help threads, the reason being tens of such threads were deleted daily as most of them belonged in the Simple Questions thread, or nowhere at all. I agree that this has resulted in a cluttered section with many pointless and repeated threads as well, but that's just how the threads were too, although smaller. We were also hoping that searching in a section where each question has its own title would be easier. The Lounge is a needed section, especially for beginners.

I do agree removing the two help threads wasn't really necessary, but since we were going for a whole sub-forum dedicated to ROM hacking help, we had to see how things would work out without those threads. Apparently this hasn't worked very well with the more experienced members. My current suggestion is getting the two threads back in the Beginner's Lounge section.

The two other moderators and I will discuss this and see what we can do. Though please keep in mind we're not going to scrap the Beginner's Lounge section and get the two threads back up straight away, so keep your "this is not a community, the mods are terrible" posts saved until we actually say we're not doing anything about this.

I apologise for some of my colleagues' posts that did seem offensive. Whilst I disagree with some things you put, there is no way that it was acceptable for them to personally attack you like some of them did.

I agree, we need a Beginners Area, it is something that is necessary, I feel, to encourage the development of ideas, however this should incorporate the 2 threads that people want to return. Remember the Scrapbox from years ago? That was deemed broken yet it was a little less cluttered than the current Beginners Lounge because it was also up when the 2 threads were up, and many users saw that as a viable idea (I don't know why it was removed, but that's just me, I'm sure you had your reasons). Perhaps making the Beginners Lounge more like the old Scrapbox (obviously with some changed, because it was deemed broken back then) and bringing back the old threads could be suggested, as then there is a platform to spread ideas without the clutter of repetitive questions drowning them all out, as there are many brilliant ideas that start in the Lounge, yet are drowned by questions that have been answered so many times before.

 

[Gamer2020]

Why don't we all just let the poll decide instead of arguing? Obviously the Mods are of the section are going to be stubborn and try to defend their decision. The Poll is already showing people are in favor of bringing such threads back.

Why not move this thread to the ROM hacking section so more people, that this decision would effect, can cast their vote?

most of the hackers in the romhacking section will agree that karatekid552 is the only fair moderator right now.

He may not be rude to everyone but he is rude to me even in situations where I didn't say anything bad to him.

 

[Ivysaur]

Please let's not resort to name calling. If you have a certain problem with a moderator, do contact the higher staff about it.

 

[Maruno]

I'm the mod of Game Development. We have a section solely for asking questions, and no Quick Questions threads at all.

The only difference between one mega-thread and a section full of threads for questions, as far as I can see, is that the separate threads can (should) have descriptive titles, which makes them easier to browse through. All the same search options apply, but individual threads also have the benefit of being able to tell what a thread is about at a glance. I think this is much easier than having no boundaries between where one question ends and another begins (and I'm sure there is much overlap which is only more confusing).

One man's quick question is another man's complex situation,, so the name "Quick Questions" isn't entirely accurate. Just because you can ask something in a sentence doesn't mean it's as quick to answer it.

There's also the possibility, with individual threads, of grouping similar questions together (by merging those threads). You can also follow up on a previous question without disturbing "current" questions.

I don't know exactly how you ROM hackers do things. I gather the section in question also contains speculative hack threads (which Game Dev doesn't allow because it's clutter) and possibly also recruitment threads (Game Dev has a singly stickied thread for that). Perhaps there are more reasons some of you are against individual question threads other than "they changed it so it sucks", I don't know. I just thought I could offer my thoughts.

 

[Banjora Marxvile]

I don't know exactly how you ROM hackers do things. I gather the section in question also contains speculative hack threads (which Game Dev doesn't allow because it's clutter) and possibly also recruitment threads (Game Dev has a singly stickied thread for that). Perhaps there are more reasons some of you are against individual question threads other than "they changed it so it sucks", I don't know. I just thought I could offer my thoughts.

This paragraph contains exactly what I find wrong with the section, it merges a forum of hack ideas and simple questions, making it hard to pick between the two when looking through. I don't like that idea of it as many people post simple questions that take a few seconds to answer and then other people post the same question, whereas some people post briliant, unique, and potentially fun ideas that just get so ignored. Yes, beginners need an area, but why lump together repetitive questions and potentially good ideas into one single forum where it is hard to distinguish between the two, especially with lack of distinguishing titles that the forum tends to spit up. (By the way, none of are saying "they changed it so they sucks", we're saying it's actually quite cluttered, hence why we don't agree with it. Personally, I like the Beginner's Lounge if it didn't get cluttered with questions that get asked again and again). That is why I'm kind of for returning the threads, as it is actually a place for the clutter of questions without getting in the way of constructive criticism of good ideas because quite a few people don't visit the forum because of the clutter.

 

[Spherical Ice]

Honestly, I think the Beginner's Lounge is a better idea than the old threads (which, incidentally, should have never been separate: why keep scripts separate from other questions?) but we should remove the Scrapbox aspects, i.e. make it solely for help and not for ideas, as underdeveloped ideas (that the subforum encourages) don't deserve entire sections in my opinion when a majority of them never get past ideas and get abandoned once the creators find out that work is involved. The restrictions of the Progressing Hacks forum are there because they encourage the people who do want to take on the workload and get something going to actually get something of substance.

So yeah, my vote (for what it's worth) would be to keep the section but to remove the hack idea threads (perhaps bring back that storyline idea thread (if it has gone, I'm not sure)).

 

[Le pug]

Gonna just quote this again. In case you mods keep missing it. This is the only post needed in this thread. Check out how many replies him and karatekid gave to those threads and ask everyone how they've bettered from them. Now there are a few more active hackers who can help answer alongside him. Keep the forum ... just add the two threads also.

Back in the day when said threads existed, I had them subscribed. AS SOON AS SOMEONE POSTED I'd reply to them. Ask almost anyone here, karatekid and I were the known people to go to for help. Questions regarding asm or "hard stuff" was and will be answered by me. Easy to do. I personally almost never used the threads myself, but I did get replies if I didn't have anyone else to go to. I met some great people just from the threads, and almost everyone here knows that. I even got a helper award from the threads. Please bring them back, it's the best decision. I'd never ignore anybody on purpose. It's better this way.

 

[Christos]

I don't like that idea of it as many people post simple questions that take a few seconds to answer and then other people post the same question, whereas some people post briliant, unique, and potentially fun ideas that just get so ignored.

So yeah, my vote (for what it's worth) would be to keep the section but to remove the hack idea threads (perhaps bring back that storyline idea thread (if it has gone, I'm not sure)).

This is where prefixes come in. If you're only interested in looking at hack ideas, which I agree can easily get "lost" in all those questions threads, you can choose to only view threads with the [Idea] prefix, or the [Help] prefix if you feel like answering questions.

I know the number of repeated and unnecessary threads is still high, so a possible Questions & Answers thread, which apparently everyone except me seems to want, will reduce them. But the number of hack idea threads is such that it wouldn't warrant them their own section, and at the same time if they were allowed at the Hub they'd overshadow the discussion threads.

So, considering the amount of help threads will be less if any mega-threads are re-introduced, hack idea threads should still be okay in the Lounge as long as they're kept updated and active by the creator, and there's always the option of prefixes. An alternative to a Q&A thread could be the separation of the section to help threads and hack ideas, but it looks like this isn't the main reason some people want these two threads back.

 

[Spherical Ice]

Maybe the mods could play a more active role in merging threads that are pre-existing questions whose threads already exist to keep clutter down?

 

[Christos]

It's possible but quite inconvenient, in my opinion. Instead I'd prefer a Questions & Answers thread, while still keeping the option of posting a question thread in the section, for smaller questions, so repeated question threads can be merged to that thread so the ones asking can either get a quick answer or a re-direct to the already posted answer.

 

[PiaCRT]

Just give the hackers back their two threads and be on with yourself. Or don't, and slowly push away the hacker until we all just merge onto PHO. It's bound to happen if you continue with your power couple with #hashtag in rejecting any ideas that are clearly better than what you have right now.

Yes, join usssssss...


Anyway, I remember the scrapbox, it was poo. Beginner's Lounge is the same thing but it's regressed to a dull drum of noob threads nobody wants to click on.

 

[Christos]

Anyway, I remember the sandbox, it was poo. Beginner's Lounge is the same thing but it's regressed to a dull drum of noob threads nobody wants to click on.

But the Beginner's Lounge section is essentially the Simple Questions thread, only as a whole section. If you wouldn't click on the "noob" threads then you wouldn't go to the Simple Questions thread to answer questions and help people either.

 

[PiaCRT]

It's far less tedious to look over several posts in one thread than it is to go through several threads. Keep in mind many threads aren't even titled properly or tagged right.

EDIT: While it's great in theory if your more experienced members are telling you it's not working...You should, I don't know, maybe listen to them?

 

[MakoReactor8]

If you wouldn't click on the "noob" threads then you wouldn't go to the Simple Questions thread to answer questions and help people either.

If I read correctly, both Shinyquagsire and GoGoJJTech both said they would answer questions on a simple questions thread. The experienced hackers like them and LePug don't click the 'noob' question threads in the beginner's lounge because they either have some posts and they think its answered or the threads are just fluff posts. Even I would try to help on a simple questions thread despite my limited knowledge and if i didn't know the answer I'd refer the person to someone I think could help.