News Democrats move forward towards impeaching Trump.

[Her]

it's impeachment day y'all

 

[Corrin]

News on twitter says that he's been impeached.

 

[EnglishALT]

Awesome with polls showing the public against impeachment, despite the Democrats doing everything possible to make their case, it now moves onto the Senate where the Republicans can decide for either a swift aquital or a prolonged trial with witnesses based on the Republican majority choosing.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/e...ment_and_removal_of_president_trump-6957.html

 

[Maedar]

I assume everyone here has seen Mr. Trump's, ahem, "letter" to Speaker Pelosi?

https://news.yahoo.com/trump-letter-pelosi-impeachment-eve-195636055.html

IMOHO, the term "not helping your case comes to mind.

Incidentally, ALT, your own link shows two polls with the "Yes/Remove" group up. The poll in The Economist says the Yes group is up 8 points, the Politico poll has them up 7.

I found a very different poll, btw:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/26/politics/cnn-poll-impeachment-views/index.html

 

[EnglishALT]

Incidentally, ALT, your own link shows two polls with the "Yes/Remove" group up. The poll in The Economist says the Yes group is up 8 points, the Politico poll has them up 7.

Yes you will find a few outliers in any poll just as I don't believe is -8 against impeachment, right now the general means of the poll are slightly against impeachment. Which again is part of a general trend of the public turning against it.

I found a very different poll, btw:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/26/politics/cnn-poll-impeachment-views/index.html

That poll is almost a month old, the latest CNN poll is +3 percent against impeachment. 45% for impeachment, 48% against.


https://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2019/images/12/16/rel14a.-.trump,.impeachment.pdf

 

[Alex]

Get him outta there

 

[Maedar]

ALT, your link includes THESE two Polls.

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/ua3ar45wbg/econTabReport.pdf

https://morningconsult.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/191266_crosstabs_POLITICO_RVs_PARTIAL-v3.pdf

Yes you will find a few outliers in any poll just as I don't believe is -8 against impeachment, right now the general means of the poll are slightly against impeachment. Which again is part of a general trend of the public turning against it.

May I ask why you believe your poll means everything mine means nothing? Need I bring up the Fox poll again?

And why do you excuse the juvenile, threatening letter he made to Ms. Pelosi?

 

[EnglishALT]

ALT, your link includes THESE two Polls.

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/ua3ar45wbg/econTabReport.pdf

https://morningconsult.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/191266_crosstabs_POLITICO_RVs_PARTIAL-v3.pdf



May I ask why you believe your poll means everything mine means nothing? Need I bring up the Fox poll again?

Yes I am very well aware what is in the link I posted, as should be obvious, the link is a culmination of polls, showing every poll released in the past few weeks and giving a proper total, it does not weight one poll or another, but gives you a general idea of where the public is at right now based on all the polls. That seems to be slightly against impeachment.

And why do you excuse the juvenile, threatening letter he made to Ms. Pelosi?

Threatening? I didn't read all six pages but there were threats? Other than that as for the letter... meh.

 

[Corrin]

He was impeached, it's fact, but it doesn't necessarily mean the end of his presidency. Unfortunately we may have 4 more years of his idiocy ahead of us.
He may not be removed or indicted since the senate is mostly republicans, but still, being impeached is a huge embarrassment to him and could affect his 2020 election campaign?

 

[EnglishALT]

He was impeached, it's fact, just deal with it and discuss the next procedures.
He may not be removed or indicted since the senate is mostly republicans, but still, being impeached is a huge embarrassment to him and may affect his 2020 election campaign?

Is it that much of an embarrassment? It was largely a party line vote, suggesting further impeachment's may be similar and become more of the norm. Republicans are already saying the next Democratic President should be impeached.

As for his re-election campaign, his polls have gone up recently, and this whole thing is helping Trump rake in money, if anything Trump will try and turn this into Kavanaugh 2.0, to fire up the base.

 

[gimmepie]

Is it that much of an embarrassment? It was largely a party line vote, suggesting further impeachment's may be similar and become more of the norm. Republicans are already saying the next Democratic President should be impeached.

That is a seriously messed up statement. Trump has been impeached because it is believed, rightly if I'm going to be frank, that he solicited a foreign power's aid in securing the 2020 election, threatening to withhold needed military aid in the process. He was impeached for flouting democracy and criminal behaviour, not for being a Republican and the only reason that this has been divided on party lines is because Republicans protect their own (so do Democrats, but it's not a Democrat that was impeached so that's hardly relevant).

To say that they will attempt to impeach the next Democratic president in retaliation is both horrendously immature and a clear sign that a person with power shouldn't have it.

As for his re-election campaign, his polls have gone up recently, and this whole thing is helping Trump rake in money, if anything Trump will try and turn this into Kavanaugh 2.0, to fire up the base.

I don't think the impeachment will have much impact on the election in either direction. It fires his fanbase up more in defence and his detractors in validation. It's more of the same. My fingers remain crossed that he doesn't get to screw everyone around for a second term, but it's a lot more up in the air than anyone wants to admit.

 

[EnglishALT]

That is a seriously messed up statement. Trump has been impeached because it is believed, rightly if I'm going to be frank, that he solicited a foreign power's aid in securing the 2020 election, threatening to withhold needed military aid in the process. He was impeached for flouting democracy and criminal behaviour, not for being a Republican and the only reason that this has been divided on party lines is because Republicans protect their own (so do Democrats, but it's not a Democrat that was impeached so that's hardly relevant).

To say that they will attempt to impeach the next Democratic president in retaliation is both horrendously immature and a clear sign that a person with power shouldn't have it.

Before we get upset about the politicization of the use of impeachment lets take a trip down memory lane.

April 2016 before Trump is even the nominee, "Could Trump be impeached shortly after he takes office"

https://www.politico.eu/article/cou...election-2016-american-president-impeachment/

July 12 2017, Representative Sherman introduces articles of impeachment.

August 2017, Representative Steve Cohen introduces articles of impeachment.

December 2017, Representative Al Green introduces articles of impeachment. It is defeated 364–58.

January 19, 2018, Representative Al Green introduces articles of impeachment AGAIN, It is defeated 355–66.

January 4, 2018, Representative Rashida Tlaib yells out, "And when your son looks at you and says, 'Mama, look, you won. Bullies don't win,' and I said, 'Baby, they don't' – because we're gonna go in there and we're going to impeach the mother........"

March 1, 2019, Representative Brad Sherman introduces articles of impeachment

March 27, 2019, Representative Rashida Tlaib introduces articles of impeachment

May 25, 2019, Representative Shelia Jackson Lee introduces articles of impeachment.

I'm sorry but if you believe that it is messed up for a party to use impeachment as a political tool against a President you don't like. Then you are about three years too late.

 

[gimmepie]

Before we get upset about the politicization of the use of impeachment lets take a trip down memory lane.

April 2016 before Trump is even the nominee, "Could Trump be impeached shortly after he takes office"

https://www.politico.eu/article/cou...election-2016-american-president-impeachment/

July 12 2017, Representative Sherman introduces articles of impeachment.

August 2017, Representative Steve Cohen introduces articles of impeachment.

December 2017, Representative Al Green introduces articles of impeachment. It is defeated 364–58.

January 19, 2018, Representative Al Green introduces articles of impeachment AGAIN, It is defeated 355–66.

January 4, 2018, Representative Rashida Tlaib yells out, "And when your son looks at you and says, 'Mama, look, you won. Bullies don't win,' and I said, 'Baby, they don't' – because we're gonna go in there and we're going to impeach the mother........"

March 1, 2019, Representative Brad Sherman introduces articles of impeachment

March 27, 2019, Representative Rashida Tlaib introduces articles of impeachment

May 25, 2019, Representative Shelia Jackson Lee introduces articles of impeachment.

I'm sorry but if you believe that it is messed up for a party to use impeachment as a political tool against a President you don't like. Then you are about three years too late.

I don't agree with any of the Democrats who were misusing the system for political gain either - I would argue though that Trump has done enough in his tenure as President to have at least warranted the discussion several times. There's a difference between that and saying "let's decide to aim for impeachment before we even know who the next Democratic candidate will be" or "Let's impeach Trump immediately without investigation into anything because fuck Trump."

 

[EnglishALT]

I don't agree with any of the Democrats who were misusing the system for political gain either - I would argue though that Trump has done enough in his tenure as President to have at least warranted the discussion several times. There's a difference between that and saying "let's decide to aim for impeachment before we even know who the next Democratic candidate will be" or "Let's impeach Trump immediately without investigation into anything because psyduck Trump."

Thing is any President, especially any modern President can be accused of warranting an investigation into impeachment.

Clinton: You have Whitewater, lying under oath, etc etc
Bush: You have Iraq ( Lead up to war, hiding information, etc ).
Obama: You have Iran ( Exchanging money for hostages, turning a blind eye to drugs, etc ).

If a party believes that impeachment is just a tool to fix an election that they lost, which lets be realistic, a lot of Democrats believe that, then you can impeach any President.

I would say that maybe impeachment would carry more weight behind it, if we hadn't spent the last three years deciding not if but when Democrats will impeach Trump.

Edit: Also want to point out a poll taken a month after he was sworn in, 58% of Democrats said they wanted to impeach Trump.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...impeach-trump-most-democrats-already-say-yes/

This has been a thing since day one, and is it any wonder that Republicans are saying they will do the same, whenever another Democrat is elected?

 

[Hands]

I'm sorry but if you believe that it is messed up for a party to use impeachment as a political tool against a President you don't like. Then you are about three years too late.

You guys literally impeached a President over a few blowies so I'd suggest that it's not 3 years late, rather, its 21 years late

 

[EnglishALT]

You guys literally impeached a President over a few blowies so I'd suggest that it's not 3 years late, rather, its 21 years late

Close, Republicans impeached Clinton for lying under oath and witness intimidation during a sexual harassment lawsuit, and even if you do not think those rise to impeachable crimes, I would say you would be hard pressed to find Republicans wanting to impeach Clinton from the moment his hand left the Bible, like the Democrats have with Trump.

 

[Hands]

Close, Republicans impeached Clinton for lying under oath and witness intimidation during a sexual harassment lawsuit, and even if you do not think those rise to impeachable crimes, I would say you would be hard pressed to find Republicans wanting to impeach Clinton from the moment his hand left the Bible, like the Democrats have with Trump.

Not quite, but they basically did to Obama


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efforts_to_impeach_Barack_Obama


Also let's not pretend it was over sexual assault lol. Clinton tried to block a civil lawsuit coming through when he was in office, the SCOTUS refused it and the republicans spent the next year trying to find anything they could to impeach Clinton


Though I'm glad you think lying is an impeachable offence, considering Trump's record.

 

[EnglishALT]

Not quite, but they basically did to Obama


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efforts_to_impeach_Barack_Obama

Really that is what we are going to compare that too? All of those bills I have shown submitted by Democrats in 2017 - 2019, and the closest yours comes in a similar amount of time are a few Republicans saying Obama should be impeached, and one submitted bill in March 2012.

Also let's not pretend it was over sexual assault lol. Clinton tried to block a civil lawsuit coming through when he was in office, the SCOTUS refused it and the republicans spent the next year trying to find anything they could to impeach Clinton

"On May 6, 1994, former Arkansas state employee Paula Jones filed a sexual harassment suit against U.S. President Bill Clinton and former Arkansas State Police Officer Danny Ferguson. She claimed that on May 8, 1991, Clinton, then Governor of Arkansas, propositioned her. David Brock had written, in the January 1994 issue of The American Spectator, that an Arkansas state employee named "Paula" had offered to be Clinton's mistress. According to the story, Ferguson had escorted Jones to Clinton's hotel room, stood guard, and overheard Jones say that she would not mind being Clinton's mistress."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_v._Jones

The lawsuit that Clinton lied and engaged in witness intimidation in, was a sexual harassment lawsuit.

Though I'm glad you think lying is an impeachable offence, considering Trump's record.

Sure, and if Trump is on tape lying to a grand jury and engaging in witness intimidation you would have an apples and apples comparison for impeachment.

 

[Hands]

Really that is what we are going to compare that too? All of those bills I have shown submitted by Democrats in 2017 - 2019, and the closest yours comes in a similar amount of time are a few Republicans saying Obama should be impeached, and one submitted bill in March 2012.



"On May 6, 1994, former Arkansas state employee Paula Jones filed a sexual harassment suit against U.S. President Bill Clinton and former Arkansas State Police Officer Danny Ferguson. She claimed that on May 8, 1991, Clinton, then Governor of Arkansas, propositioned her. David Brock had written, in the January 1994 issue of The American Spectator, that an Arkansas state employee named "Paula" had offered to be Clinton's mistress. According to the story, Ferguson had escorted Jones to Clinton's hotel room, stood guard, and overheard Jones say that she would not mind being Clinton's mistress."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_v._Jones

The lawsuit that Clinton lied and engaged in witness intimidation in, was a sexual harassment lawsuit.



Sure, and if Trump is on tape lying to a grand jury and engaging in witness intimidation you would have an apples and apples comparison for impeachment.

"The impeachment of Bill Clinton was initiated on October 8, 1998, when the United States House of Representatives voted to commence impeachment proceedings against Bill Clinton, the 42nd president of the United States, for "high crimes and misdemeanors." The specific charges against Clinton were lying under oath and obstruction of justice. The charges stemmed from a sexual harassment lawsuit filed against Clinton by Paula Jones and from Clinton's testimony denying that he had engaged in a sexual relationship with White House intern Monica Lewinsky."


" In late 1997, Linda Tripp began secretly recording conversations with her friend Monica Lewinsky, a former intern and Department of Defense employee. In those recordings, Lewinsky divulged that she had had a sexual relationship with Clinton."

"In the November 1998 House elections, the Democrats picked up five seats in the House, but the Republicans still maintained majority control. The results went against what House Speaker Newt Gingrich predicted, who, before the election, had been reassured by private polling that Clinton's scandal would result in Republican gains of up to thirty House seats. Shortly after the elections, Gingrich, who had been one of the leading advocates for impeachment, announced he would resign from Congress as soon as he was able to find somebody to fill his vacant seat"


It was always politically motivated. Clinton having a civil court claim against him was not grounds for impeachment, they tried to do him over claiming he had no relations with Lewinsky.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_sexual_misconduct_allegations


It's very, very clear that it wasn't about "sexual harassment" for the GOP, if civil cases around sexual harassment were grounds to impeach, then why haven't they moved on Trump for it?

 

[EnglishALT]

It was always politically motivated. Clinton having a civil court claim against him was not grounds for impeachment, they tried to do him over claiming he had no relations with Lewinsky.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_sexual_misconduct_allegations


It's very, very clear that it wasn't about "sexual harassment" for the GOP, if civil cases around sexual harassment were grounds to impeach, then why haven't they moved on Trump for it?

We are really getting off track here, so its the last I will say on this, as I think we are talking over one another.

The Republican's impeached Clinton for lying under oath and witness intimidation, where did he lie under oath and engage in witness intimidation? A sexual harassment lawsuit case. I never said the lawsuit itself was grounds for impeachment, what was grounds for impeachment was lying under oath and witness intimidation in attempting to get around the sexual harassment lawsuit.