Dugtrio/Arena Trap

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    Sooooo. Dugtrio.

    [PokeCommunity.com] Dugtrio/Arena Trap


    While it's on the fast side with pretty good base attack, it's stats aren't generally too impressive. That is, until you factor in it's secondary ability: Arena Trap. I won't mince words, Arena Trap probably makes Dugtrio the best trapper in the OU metagame. I mean, how many Pokemon out there can trap pokemon like Stall-Breaker Heatran, Tyranitar, or heck, any grounded pokemon that can be picked off?

    It really makes you think twice about your gameplay. For example, if you see a stall team, and they're running a Dugtrio. If it manages to pick off your wall-breakers, then you essentially can't win. D;

    So, here's a question for you guys: do you think Dugtrio is legible to be a suspect? Is it a genuine threat for the current metagame? What are your thoughts?
     
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    Arena Trap should go.

    Last gen Gothitelle and Wobbuffet were still allowed to be used. Shadow Tag and Arena Trap are the problems.

    I'm not as fussed about Magnet Pull, since it's a specific ability that traps one type, while Arena Trap/Shadow Tag are blanket's to remove pretty much anything.
     
    Frozocrone said:
    I'm not as fussed about Magnet Pull, since it's a specific ability that traps one type, while Arena Trap/Shadow Tag are blanket's to remove pretty much anything.
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    Even though it (Magnet Pull) still only affects one type, it still should go. Besides the fact that the type it traps is one of the most used and necessary types in the game, trapping is an inherently uncompetitive mechanic in singles.

    Aurora said:
    Arena Trap should probably go. There is actually heated discussion about whether or not something needs to be done about the stall archetype, and Dugtrio is one of the main reasons as to why this is the case. Chansey + Unaware Clefable + Skarmory + Toxapex is the current staple core of stall teams and Dugtrio only makes this difficult-to-break core all the more annoying by trapping anything that might be able to break through it. Dugtrio's Attack buff also makes it a much more potent trapper than it ever was in previous generations.
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    are people really using "ew I can't easily annihilate this stall core" in THIS metagame as an argument for banning Arena Trap?

    really?

    but hey as long as people want Arena Trap banned I suppose it's all good in the end
     
    I vote against banning Arena Trap, because it alongside with Shadow Tag are only limited to Pok?mon who are either frail as heck (Dugtrio) or lack a decent type coverage (Gothitelle).

    Nah said:
    Even though it (Magnet Pull) still only affects one type, it still should go. Besides the fact that the type it traps is one of the most used and necessary types in the game, trapping is an inherently uncompetitive mechanic in singles.
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    Isn't that a good thing though? Steel types have become the next OP type in the series, so we need to find ways to nerf the type from becoming dominant in the metagame.
     
    Pinkie-Dawn said:
    I vote against banning Arena Trap, because it alongside with Shadow Tag are only limited to Pok?mon who are either frail as heck (Dugtrio) or lack a decent type coverage (Gothitelle).
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    Shadow Tag Gothitelle was one of the most broken things to ever be a part of the meta. Even ignoring that it actually has a fairly wide movepool, Shadow Tag + Choice Item + Trick is cancerous.



    Isn't that a good thing though? Steel types have become the next OP type in the series, so we need to find ways to nerf the type from becoming dominant in the metagame.
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    I mean, I agree Magnet Pull is probably okay, but Steel is hardly OP. It's good sure but it's not that great as an offensive type usually, is weak to the most common offensive type and is often paired with types that void its resistances or enhance its weaknesses.
     
    gimmepie said:
    Shadow Tag Gothitelle was one of the most broken things to ever be a part of the meta. Even ignoring that it actually has a fairly wide movepool, Shadow Tag + Choice Item + Trick is cancerous.
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    It still relies on Hidden Power to provide any decent coverage though.

    I mean, I agree Magnet Pull is probably okay, but Steel is hardly OP. It's good sure but it's not that great as an offensive type usually, is weak to the most common offensive type and is often paired with types that void its resistances or enhance its weaknesses.
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    The current OU list shows how few in numbers Steel's most common weaknesses currently are because of Fairy types, Stealth Rocks, and Water types. And speaking of Fairies, their presence only gave it more of a reason to use Steel types more often due to having a type advantage against them.
     
    Pinkie-Dawn said:
    It still relies on Hidden Power to provide any decent coverage though.



    The current OU list shows how few in numbers Steel's most common weaknesses currently are because of Fairy types, Stealth Rocks, and Water types. And speaking of Fairies, their presence only gave it more of a reason to use Steel types more often due to having a type advantage against them.
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    Coverage means nothing on Gothitelle when it's free to Trick away a Choice item on an unsuspecting wall, IMO. It can even get in on very passive Pokemon, Calm Mind in its face (even up to +6), then wreck it.
     
    i feel like smog will be hesistant to suspect duggy. with that said, in my opinion arena trap is way too good just because of the amount of stuff duggy traps when it's on stall. on offense it's alright but not insane. i'd vote to ban duggy instead of arena trap because arena trap itself is not broken, but dugtrio can abuse it well enough to be banned.
     
    So they've apparently started a suspect test: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sm-ou-suspect-process-round-2-dirt.3595351/

    It's apparently more for Dugtrio than Arena Trap:
    blunder said:
    Due to the council's general belief that it is not Arena Trap that is intrinsically broken, but the user (Dugtrio), we have decided to exclusively suspect test this Pokemon.
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    Not sure why anyone would believe that Arena Trap/trapping isn't broken (hint: nobody would use Dugtrio if it didn't have Arena Trap), but if Dugtrio goes, so does Arena Trap, so it works out anyway.
     
    to be honest i feel like megas ableye is stall's problem, not duggy,
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    people really still think that mega sableye is some broken ass monster that makes stall impenetrable?

    when the game just introduced 5 highly viable fairy types

    and it can't do priority status on the turn it mega evolves anymore

    and power creep is still continuing

    and still don't realize that using a bs trapper to remove the opponent's answer to your wincon is the real problem

    like really?

    I'm not specifically talking about you btw
     
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    It was broken in ORAS because it forces you to beat stall without a stallbreaker (because the most conventional methods, hazards and Taunt, all fail against it). Unless you want to run Mold Breaker (highly restrictive) or set up sweepers (almost always on the same team as Unaware Clefable). It makes extremely restrictive cores and reduces counter-play to practically nothing.

    Remains to be seen whether SM will manage it better. I don't really like it, but with all these new threats, could be easier to handle. Magearna, the Tapu's and UB's could give it enough to stay in OU.
     
    Nah said:
    people really still think that mega sableye is some broken ass monster that makes stall impenetrable?

    when the game just introduced 5 highly viable fairy types

    and it can't do priority status on the turn it mega evolves anymore

    and power creep is still continuing

    and still don't realize that using a bs trapper to remove the opponent's answer to your wincon is the real problem

    like really?

    I'm not specifically talking about you btw
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    as someone thats played a bit of stall, i can tell you playing stall when they have entry hazards up is WAY harder than playing when they're not up. if your sab is dead/weakened and your skarm is dead/weakened, hazards become a huge issue. stuff like chansey and unaware clef get pressured very easily when rocks and or spikes are up. duggy is basically always sashed and duggy with a broken sash is awful. to your fake out sab point, sabs have adjusted to the point where they run protect now.
     
    If I had a vote, which I won't because I am too lazy to try for reqs, I would vote ban. Trapping has always seemed exceptionally uncompetitive to me. While Dugtrio is not a necessarily powerful Pokemon, it does it's job well enough. If we want a healthy metagame things like this have to go.
     
    Aurora said:
    My opinion is beginning to shift after reading a few no-ban posts in the suspect thread. Perhaps Dugtrio is a necessary evil to ensure that stall isn't completely passive? Maybe something else that isn't Dugtrio is the problem.
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    I think it's just time that we accept that Game Freak has made the game in such a way that stall is no longer a viable playstyle in today's world. If we need to use something objectively broken/uncompetitive in order to make it work at all in the metagame, that should tell you how non-viable something is right there.
     
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