1st Gen Genwunners are misunderstood

[yamibakura95]

Pokemon back in late 90s-early 00s wasnt just gaming. It was a cultural icon. T shirts, toys, merchandise of all sorts, even straws (i had a straw with a mankey on it). People werent perceiving pokemon through the games alone but rather through a spectrum of different media.

Its natural that the first gen holds a special place in a lots of people's hearts. They have a different perspective on it which younger people cannot imagine.

As for the designs, the gen 1 designs established how pokemon look like. There were bad designs and good designs but it was all there was back in the day so people were gonna digest them a lot easier. You need to seem things in context. A lot of people say that gen 1 had pokemon that look like objects so its no surprise that newer gens follow a similar trend. But see, in gen 1 it worked due to being the first attempt so a few mistakes could be forgiven. You would expect them to improve their designs overtime not repeat the same mistakes.

 

[Nah]

Pokemon back in late 90s-early 00s wasnt just gaming.

This kind of implies that people these days only perceive Pokemon through the video games, but that's not really ever been the case, even today. The anime still goes on, as does the TCG, as does the merchandise. Possibly not to the same degree as during Gens 1 and 2 (which may or not still qualify as Pokemon's peak hype), but it's all still there.

The ire against genwunners has somewhat diminished as of late anyway, it's mainly directed at the most recent 3 generations, the 8th in particular.

 

[Zeostar]

I thought most of the frustration stemmed from brash comments such as "Everything after Gen 1 is terrible and shouldn't exist".

 

[yamibakura95]

This kind of implies that people these days only perceive Pokemon through the video games, but that's not really ever been the case, even today. The anime still goes on, as does the TCG, as does the merchandise. Possibly not to the same degree as during Gens 1 and 2 (which may or not still qualify as Pokemon's peak hype), but it's all still there.

The ire against genwunners has somewhat diminished as of late anyway, it's mainly directed at the most recent 3 generations, the 8th in particular.

i dont disagree on this but pokemon isnt nearly as popular as media as it was 20 years ago. in my country, the anime stopped airing 10 years ago, commercials too. And generally, there was a huge decline in terms of advertising and promotion from gen 3 and onwards.

Pokemon was everywhere back in the day. You would go for vacation in rural islands and spot t shirts with mewtwo and mew on them. Even people who didnt play the games knew what pokemon were.

I thought most of the frustration stemmed from brash comments such as "Everything after Gen 1 is terrible and shouldn't exist".

It was like this in the beggining but at some point people were actively attacking gen 1in general. I think thi bgan with gen 5 which felt like a reboot to the series.

 

[Bellsprout]

I agree, back then Pokemon was everywhere and everyone in my age group talked about it, watched it, and collected cards. Pokemon is still huge (its still the biggest franchise right??) but now it's comfortably established. I see a lot less advertisement, merchandise in stores, or people wearing clothing for it.

Personally I think there is a different feel if you grew up loving it while it was huge compared to getting into it during the 5th gen. And I specifically point out the 5th gen because I see that gen getting a lot of love right now from younger people who started with that gen being their first and that's pretty understandable. I've seen it happen with each gen before that.

Maybe this is genwunner of me, but still to this day when I see that watercolor Ken Sugimori artwork I think, "ahh yes this is Pokemon right here."

 

[yamibakura95]

I agree, back then Pokemon was everywhere and everyone in my age group talked about it, watched it, and collected cards. Pokemon is still huge (its still the biggest franchise right??) but now it's comfortably established. I see a lot less advertisement, merchandise in stores, or people wearing clothing for it.

Personally I think there is a different feel if you grew up loving it while it was huge compared to getting into it during the 5th gen. And I specifically point out the 5th gen because I see that gen getting a lot of love right now from younger people who started with that gen being their first and that's pretty understandable. I've seen it happen with each gen before that.

Maybe this is genwunner of me, but still to this day when I see that watercolor Ken Sugimori artwork I think, "ahh yes this is Pokemon right here."

the watercolor art was imho pokemon's signature style.

5th gen is my least favorite gen. i actually prefered 6,7,8 over it. i wasreally turned off by reusing the idea of a dragon legendary trio right after DP. another thing i noticed is that the pokemon became extremely unbalanced. they would have one or two super high stats and the rest would be bottom of the barrell. and the designs felt like something i would have seen in One Piece.

 

[pokemon fan person]

i think that some genwunners hate the newer generations, while others don't. not all genwunners will only like gen 1 (and also a little bit of gen 2 and 0.7% of gen 3). some of them like the newer generations, even gen 8.

 

[Sheep]

It does seem a bit harsh to me how people who like gen I but not later generations are labeled as genwunners to me, since it tends to be such a negative term. :( A lot of fans grew up with the original 151 and there's nothing wrong with being especially attached to that generation and not be particularly fond of later Pokémon designs. Nostalgia and childhood memories can be pretty strong. Personally I grew up with RBY in 1998 and even though I love later generations too, I can completely understand Kanto as a whole holds dear memories for a lot of people. Not every gen I fan goes out of their way to talk poorly about later generations or make it seem like liking them is the wrong decision (fortunately, most don't)!

 

[yamibakura95]

It does seem a bit harsh to me how people who like gen I but not later generations are labeled as genwunners to me, since it tends to be such a negative term. :( A lot of fans grew up with the original 151 and there's nothing wrong with being especially attached to that generation and not be particularly fond of later Pokémon designs. Nostalgia and childhood memories can be pretty strong. Personally I grew up with RBY in 1998 and even though I love later generations too, I can completely understand Kanto as a whole holds dear memories for a lot of people. Not every gen I fan goes out of their way to talk poorly about later generations or make it seem like liking them is the wrong decision (fortunately, most don't)!

honestly, i feel like the so called "genwunners" are victims. because there were people who were enamoured with gen 1 since the beginning of gen 2 yet noone thought to invent a term to call them with until like gen 5. i can understadn the so called genwunners a lot more than their haters because the former are the equivilent of old people who are less receptive of changes.

 

[pkmin3033]

There seems to be a bizarre culture of competition amongst Pokemon fans to feel like they're the most persecuted for their preferences. Everyone wants to feel like they like the most "underrated" generation - as if there could ever actually be such a thing in the largest media franchise on the planet - or that their opinion is somehow more unpopular/controversial than other people's, and that everyone else hates them for it on general principal. Let's be honest here - like minds congregate, and if you go into a place where like-minded people have a different opinion to yours, and you express that opinion, you're going to get some backlash for it. That really is all there is to it. It's not an indication of a minority opinion or being "misunderstood" outside of that single situation. It's just a narrative that people cook up in their minds in a somewhat masochistic effort to feel validated.

So-called Genwunners are the product of nostalgia, and you see people with similar views in every long-lasting franchise. Things repeat, and it's not entirely uncommon in the video game industry for the idea that "who does it first does it best" to be something that gets bandied about to varying degrees of intensity. It's not an argument entirely without merit - after all, if you don't have a first instalment then you can't have a second, and a certain degree of originality is lost with each retelling, and that's VERY evident in the Pokemon franchise, especially from Generation VI onwards where new gameplay mechanics are replaced by one-off gimmicks - but at the same time it discounts the small improvements made with each instalment, so it's not an unassailable position. It's just another opinion in a long line of them, only rooted firmly in nostalgia and, occasionally, the somewhat misguided belief that the developers of a franchise have a moral obligation to have that franchise grow up with the original audience.

Touching on design briefly though, I don't think it's a question of "improving" them over time as much as it is making them more complex, and thereby - to some people - less memorable, which many equate to being worse because of it. A lot of gaming's most iconic characters have very simple designs and are easy to remember, which is a trait that most of the first generation of Pokemon share. But you can't make simple designs forever, and as things get more complicated, it becomes less about how memorable something is and more about how aesthetically pleasing it is to an individual, which is far more subjective in nature and is going to start drawing battle lines in the sand as people argue about what looks good and what doesn't.

 

[yamibakura95]

There seems to be a bizarre culture of competition amongst Pokemon fans to feel like they're the most persecuted for their preferences. Everyone wants to feel like they like the most "underrated" generation - as if there could ever actually be such a thing in the largest media franchise on the planet - or that their opinion is somehow more unpopular/controversial than other people's, and that everyone else hates them for it on general principal. Let's be honest here - like minds congregate, and if you go into a place where like-minded people have a different opinion to yours, and you express that opinion, you're going to get some backlash for it. That really is all there is to it. It's not an indication of a minority opinion or being "misunderstood" outside of that single situation. It's just a narrative that people cook up in their minds in a somewhat masochistic effort to feel validated.

So-called Genwunners are the product of nostalgia, and you see people with similar views in every long-lasting franchise. Things repeat, and it's not entirely uncommon in the video game industry for the idea that "who does it first does it best" to be something that gets bandied about to varying degrees of intensity. It's not an argument entirely without merit - after all, if you don't have a first instalment then you can't have a second, and a certain degree of originality is lost with each retelling, and that's VERY evident in the Pokemon franchise, especially from Generation VI onwards where new gameplay mechanics are replaced by one-off gimmicks - but at the same time it discounts the small improvements made with each instalment, so it's not an unassailable position. It's just another opinion in a long line of them, only rooted firmly in nostalgia and, occasionally, the somewhat misguided belief that the developers of a franchise have a moral obligation to have that franchise grow up with the original audience.

Touching on design briefly though, I don't think it's a question of "improving" them over time as much as it is making them more complex, and thereby - to some people - less memorable, which many equate to being worse because of it. A lot of gaming's most iconic characters have very simple designs and are easy to remember, which is a trait that most of the first generation of Pokemon share. But you can't make simple designs forever, and as things get more complicated, it becomes less about how memorable something is and more about how aesthetically pleasing it is to an individual, which is far more subjective in nature and is going to start drawing battle lines in the sand as people argue about what looks good and what doesn't.

there are pokemon desgins i liked from EVERY generetion. Its just that gen 1 had the highest concetration of favored designs but i really liked Hoopa's Unbound Form and Zarude. Gen 1 was easier to work with because designs were simpler variations of animals but they obviously couldnt do this forever. They had to throw twists here and there and naturally these twists would be risky and would appeal to some and not to others.

And i think pokemon are kinda hit and miss after gen 2. They made so really good changes and some bad ones. I personally liked gen 3 the most despite not liking most gen 3 pokemon. The ones i really liked became all time favorites like Swampert and Latios. I also liked the idea of abilities but not the idea of natures. Like i said, hit or miss. Abilities were a cool feature to me but natures werent.

But honestly i like it when GF takes leaps of faith and doesnt play it safe. Because they are able to create so great game this way. But you know, its hard to create great things overtime and the more games you release the more competition you have with yourself.

 

[Nah]

But honestly i like it when GF takes leaps of faith and doesnt play it safe. Because they are able to create so great game this way. But you know, its hard to create great things overtime and the more games you release the more competition you have with yourself.

tbh I don't really get what you mean by "GF takes leaps of faith and doesnt play it safe", when exactly do they ever do these things with the main series games?

Though I do get what you mean in the last sentence. I imagine the eternal dilemma in game development is something along the lines of "how do you keep making games that keep what made people love it in the first place, but make changes so it doesn't become stale, but also make sure that the changes don't push too many people away?". I feel like I worded that terribly but idk how to word it better =(

 

[yamibakura95]

tbh I don't really get what you mean by "GF takes leaps of faith and doesnt play it safe", when exactly do they ever do these things with the main series games?

Though I do get what you mean in the last sentence. I imagine the eternal dilemma in game development is something along the lines of "how do you keep making games that keep what made people love it in the first place, but make changes so it doesn't become stale, but also make sure that the changes don't push too many people away?". I feel like I worded that terribly but idk how to word it better =(

i gave an example. Adding natures and abilities was a leap of faith cause it was something competeley new to the established pokemon game mechanics. They could have just added a type or a few moves like they did in GSC but they took a different approach.

 

[Megan]

Is there such a thing as a "genwunner"? Over the years I have seen different types of people that were referred as such. For some it seems like the term only describes the very vocal minority that seems to very eagerly try to point out how every game after the first gen was terrible because it isn't the first gen.
For others "genwunners" refers to people who like the first generation for whatever reasons they have for liking it. In that case it seems like the label is given with some contempt, basically people trying to hammer in how terrible the first gen games were whenever someone says they like them.
Lastly, for some "genwunners" seem to be just people who experienced the games when they came out, without any relation as to whether they like the games or not.

In that sense I always find it pretty difficult to talk about the topics around "genwunners".

 

[Figment]

Honestly, I couldn't care at all about what generation is your favorite, if your favorite generation is gen 1, good for you.
Every generation has their strong points and weak points, even if I'd definitely prefer some to others, and theres some of my favorite Pokemon designs from every reigon.

The only real problem I have is when your entire identity is "Generation (Number) fan" and overall, considering my experience in the Pokemon fanbase (I started to join online discussions around Gen 6, but have been playing since Gen 4),
I've honestly never seen these so called "Genwunners" before (talking about the "Gen 1 good, Gen 2-8 terrible" type, I've definitely seen people who has Gen 1 as their favorite, but aren't toxic about it, which is a fine opinion to have),
Am I just lucky? I don't know.

But if they were as bad as everyone claims they were, history definitely is repeating itself with Gen 4-5 fans, as ive seen so many people who act excatly like that, just with Gen 4 and 5 instead. Note I AM NOT SAYING THAT ALL OF THEM ARE LIKE THAT, just the very VERY vocal minority that I can't seem to escape no matter where I go in this toxic cesspool of a fanbase.
Nostalgia is one hell of a drug. My favorite Generation actually is Gen 5 (Nostalgia DEFINITELY has a role in that), but I honestly am ashamed of it due to how a select few people have acted. I assume that its like this with every other Generation but this is just my experience.

TL;DR: You can have any opinion you want, just don't be toxic about it. (And history is repeating itself)

 

[yamibakura95]

Honestly, I couldn't care at all about what generation is your favorite, if your favorite generation is gen 1, good for you.
Every generation has their strong points and weak points, even if I'd definitely prefer some to others, and theres some of my favorite Pokemon designs from every reigon.

The only real problem I have is when your entire identity is "Generation (Number) fan" and overall, considering my experience in the Pokemon fanbase (I started to join online discussions around Gen 6, but have been playing since Gen 4),
I've honestly never seen these so called "Genwunners" before (talking about the "Gen 1 good, Gen 2-8 terrible" type, I've definitely seen people who has Gen 1 as their favorite, but aren't toxic about it, which is a fine opinion to have),
Am I just lucky? I don't know.

But if they were as bad as everyone claims they were, history definitely is repeating itself with Gen 4-5 fans, as ive seen so many people who act excatly like that, just with Gen 4 and 5 instead. Note I AM NOT SAYING THAT ALL OF THEM ARE LIKE THAT, just the very VERY vocal minority that I can't seem to escape no matter where I go in this toxic cesspool of a fanbase.
Nostalgia is one hell of a drug. My favorite Generation actually is Gen 5 (Nostalgia DEFINITELY has a role in that), but I honestly am ashamed of it due to how a select few people have acted. I assume that its like this with every other Generation but this is just my experience.

TL;DR: You can have any opinion you want, just don't be toxic about it. (And history is repeating itself)

honestly, it seems like genwunners were made up by gen 5 fanboys. Noone ever thought of that till like 2011-2012 and i have never actually met a genwunner the way they are described. A lot of people who started with gen 1 played laters gens as well so they are actually less likely to be stuck on gen 1 than people who got in pokemon later during gen 5-6 and missed out on previous gens.

 

[Palmer-Granate]

For me, it was the anime. When I played Red, I felt as if I was going on an epic adventure with my Bulbasaur, seeing where the road'll lead me. Flooring the same gym leaders Ash tried to beat made me excited beyond belief, seeing that Jigglypuff in Pewter Center, having the Gym Guide "remind" me of the types Leaders use, it's what defines the game for me.

Some fellas'll hate on Gen1, but methinks it's the same type of fella that'll hate on anything they somewhat dislike. I can joyously say that as much as I grew to accept Gen1 as my gaming heritage, it's got quite a few dire flaws. (Except, some of em are quite iconic for me, such as Golbat's distorted front sprite + the speedier having outrageous crits, I see em more as quirks than flaws.)

Maybe this is genwunner of me, but still to this day when I see that watercolor Ken Sugimori artwork I think, "ahh yes this is Pokemon right here."

And how dare I skim over the official artwork, thx Bellsprout! 😀 Ofc that artwork added to the perceived epicness of that journey and I feel that that's one of Gen1's defining features.

All and all, I'm glad to be a Wunner.

 

[colours]

i... honestly haven't seen any "genwunners" in quite a while, tbh? if anything, there's a lot more people singing gen 5's praises as the perfect/ideal/peak pokemon game than i've ever heard of gen 1 fans doing so of their gen.

with this said though, there's an interesting trend of people singing praises of gens a few years after their release and whenever a newer gen comes out. i'm not really sure what it is or what brought this about... perhaps the dislike in how Game Freak is handling the newer games are making people look at past pokemon games with more fondness. you can already see this happening for the gen 7 games and they weren't exactly popular themselves. :x nowadays ever since swsh it seems some people are like "well alola wasn't actually that bad".

me personally? i just wish we'd drop the vitriol and enjoy whatever we want to enjoy. people are allowed to dislike what other people like, that's life, and that includes games, too! not every pokemon game is going to be to every single person's tastes; it's fine for tastes to be quite varied, it makes (proper) conversations about them rather interesting and engaging, i think. c:

 

[jibbajabbawocky]

I played Gen 1 (Blue) when it came out. I think a lot of the Genwunner angst comes from existing in a pre-Pokemon world, and discovering it. In those times, there was an odd "I was there first" kind of mentality. Seeing other people pick up the game and ask questions, or request trades of Pokemon they haven't gotten to, or needed to beat a gym with... it was something of a power trip. After a while.... EVERYONE got into Pokemon. I remember seeing a commercial for the KFC beanie babies, and planning on heading to one later that week to pick one up. Seeing a news report THAT NIGHT of people practically rioting over them... It made you think, "Who told all these NEWBIES about Pikachu, huh?! I've known about him for WEEKS, not like these johnny-come-latelies!" I feel that so many Genwunners get upset that their carefully researched knowledge means nothing to later games, for the most part. Knowing how hard it was to catch 151 Pokemon, and then immediately being told that they couldn't transfer those Pokemon to later generations... that kinda hurt. (Cart duping to Virtual Console fixes that, I suppose)

You can see the same stuff happening with the problems people have with Sword and Shield. It's new, and different.... and doesn't let you bring forward some of your hard earned Pokemon. Yet.

 

[Lucifer]

I agree, back then Pokemon was everywhere and everyone in my age group talked about it, watched it, and collected cards. Pokemon is still huge (its still the biggest franchise right??) but now it's comfortably established. I see a lot less advertisement, merchandise in stores, or people wearing clothing for it.

I remember this as well. When I was in middle school a lot of students brought Pokemon cards to school and would collaborate with each other at lunch.
Admittedly, I thought it was idiotic until I found an episode of the anime in our Comcast menu and decided to be an informed hater but instead ended up a fan. Though not by name, I even remember the episode, it was the one in which Ash went to the haunted house (or wherever it was) looking for Haunter to defeat Sabrina.

I got into the games when my best friend showed me her Yellow. When my mom picked me up I asked her for it, she agreed and it was history.
I remember finding Silver and getting into that and how determinedly 7th grade me who just started getting into the internet and had no means or knowledge to shop online looked everywhere for a Gameshark after learning that it was the only way to get a Mew (I know now about the gen one Mew glitch but then I did not, didn't learn it until high school) and how excited I was to finally find one at K-mart.

The hype certainly has died down. The anime lost me at Gen 3 and nowadays I haven't noticed airings though granted our provider for the past few years has been Youtube TV which has limited channels.

I had this t-shirt I got at Mervyn's, probably for like $10-$20, it was one of my favorite shirts. Now, this website calls it vintage and wants a whopping $75 for it!
https://yesterdaysattic.com/products/a5-99-pokemon-small-or-xmsl-no-tag
I also had Pikachu slippers that I wore until the bottoms ripped.

It's understandable that the younger generations who started later in the franchise's development would not be able to appreciate gen one and two's simplicity and poor quality when the modern designs and developments of their games are evolved (no pun intended) and perceptively superior.
I'm sure even a great many of us Genwonners probably look back at them and wonder how the hell we survived their simplicity and obsolete mechanics such as consumable TMs and the non-existence of Dark, Steel, and Fairy types.