HMs - do you really want them back or should they stay gone?

[Pig]

Part of my strategy behind team building has always been building teams around HM moves that doesn't incorporate the use of an HM slave, and I always found that aspect kind of fun.

"What Team composition will cover every type weakness and also cover every HM move needed for this game?"

That said, I'm in a mixed bag on this. Ride Pokemon you call on like an Uber kind of took the fun out of exploring, so doing away with HMs is fine but you should still be able to ride more than the very select few -- looking at you LGPE, I was really looking forward to lounge surfing on Snorlax belly, not grasping onto it's stomach like a baby gorilla. Give me more ride Pokemon and I'm down for the removal of HMs.

 

[Count]

I'm doing a run in X currently, taught my Talonflame Fly, and wanted to replace it with another move soon after, only to find out I couldn't. I was confused for a moment, and then realized how accustomed to the ride system I have become.

While I want HM's to stay gone, I do think the ride system needs some tweaking. One aspect I prefer about the HM system i that it is more realistic, seeing as you actually own the pokémon used. In this aspect, I think the ride system is not very neatly executed as it appears to be using some kind of magic. It's more convenient, but to me it doesn't add up to the experience. I do love riding pokémon though - I just mean that ideally, I would want to ride my own pokémon. I'm secretly hoping that instead of following pokémon, we get the option to ride our own pokémon - so long as they are physically capable of doing so, of course. I get that this chance is very small considering the huge amount, but one can dream.

 

[Noir]

Let them stay dead as a dated mechanism built to enforce artificial roadblocks that make no sense why cant i move past a 4 foot tree because I lack a certain HM when I have a blaziken that can just burn it down for me???? Just slide me the Surf/Waterfall TMs around gym 5 and we're good

 

[skyluigi2]

I don't really see much need for them these days, there are much better ways of halting players from progressing in a certain direction (story reasons etc.). Ride Pokémon were fine, but I wouldn't mind too much if Gen 7 got rid of those too.

 

[Digifiend]

When Generation V made TMs infinite use, the point of HMs was pretty much lost. They might as well have been regular TMs at that point - it wasn't even possible to get stuck because you traded away your only user of a certain HM. And then Gen VII made it so you don't need HM slaves at all. Good move - not only do you no longer need slaves, it also removes the almost mandatory requirement for Flying and Water types in your party. They should have the HM abilities unlock when the trainer has a certain number of gym badges, that way the blockades could still exist earlier in the game. Surf, Fly and Waterfall are decent moves, and Strength isn't too bad, but Cut and Rock Smash are definitely slot wasters later in the game due to low damage output, and Defog and Flash are basically useless in battle.

 

[Zero-G]

^Defog useless? Somebody likes their hazards around...

on a more serious note, HMs need to do one of two things. Either stay gone forever and for good*, or become properly deletable like many, many ROMhacks make them. While I'm not opposed to using a HM slave it always stings in my heart when I have to drop a valuable and powerful team member just so that I can progress through a cave because somebody put two rocks in my way >_>

*alternatively, just create a group of Key Items that retains the same effects without wasting a valuable move slot. Why can't we have an inflatable kajak or something to travel across Water routes or a grappling hook to pull Strength stones out of my way? Items like those would definitely make me feel more like actually being on an adventure with my pokemon instead of an assisted excursion with so-called friends that become obsolete at one point or another >_>

 

[Drayton]

There some HMs that are more handful than good (Defog, Surf and Waterfall) and some are just plain awful also stick like a glue unless you talk to move remover. I prefer they are gone since some are essential and some arent, what I really mean if HM are merely just for shortcuts and other are for storyline progressions.

 

[_pheebee]

I like the idea of Rider Pokémon, as opposed to HMs being unforgetable moves till you find someone who, i presume, hypnotises your pokémon into forgetting.

Though, i'm not opposed to Field Items. (surfboard, diving gear, sickle, flashlight, pickaxe, rock climber's kit, Strong Glove) to do the HM stuff.

 

[Raticate128]

Not only should they stay gone, but if they ever re-release any of the older games on newer platforms, they should make items or something that replace HMs. And while they're at it, make TMs reusable xD.

 

[bobandbill]

Not only should they stay gone, but if they ever re-release any of the older games on newer platforms, they should make items or something that replace HMs. And while they're at it, make TMs reusable xD.

They had ported gen 1 and 3 to the 3DS with none of that, but... I'm fine with that personally. Preserve the games as they were and all, sans a couple things that I suppose needed to be done for one reason or another (e.g. Jynx sprite).

 

[RileyXY1]

HMs should stay gone. They limited team building and forced players to use designated "HM Slaves", especially in Hoenn and Sinnoh which were heavily HM reliant. Removing HMs was one of my favorite things about Sun & Moon.

 

[Rivvon]

They should take the gen 5 approach for them: not required but still there. HMs are, in the end, just roadblocks, and people hate those. Removing necessary HMs removes all those roadblocks--they only provide extra exploration and as a bonus rewards players who are keeping HMs on their party by allowing them to explore more as they go along without having to backtrack later. It's essentially the best of both worlds, taking the good of the PokéRide system (in that you don't need HMs) and the good of the HM system (in that you're using your own Pokémon and not some creepy rented Machamp who princess-carries you around).

 

[Sydian]

i'm with rivvon on this. i don't mind them for exploration in optional areas and while they are annoying, i think there are better ways to have a roadblock or something to keep the player from advancing than HMs. they've proved they're capable of that. just have HMs be a thing, but not something you have to force on your main party members and be unable to delete. better yet -- now that TMs and HMs are both able to be used more than once, why even have HMs be undeletable? just let the move function as it should in the field, but retain the normal qualities of a move and be able to be deleted. i know this bumps into the 'what if you get stuck somewhere that requires HMs' and with gen 7 allotting for pokemon to be swapped upon catching a new pokemon while with a full party, that poses a problem. instead of saying you can't delete the move, why not just like. you can't transfer a pokemon with an HM. i know that will raise its own problems though but lol. i'll take that over being stuck with something that has flash until i can reach a move deleter near the end of the game.

 

[lilaë21]

i'll take that over being stuck with something that has flash until i can reach a move deleter near the end of the game.

Or, while we're at it... I don't understand why we should still have the same restrictions as Gen II and there couldn't be a move deleter every two cities (or even every city) instead of one per region.

 

[Fairy]

HMs are an archaic and unnecessary mechanic that should have been put away a long time ago. Glad they're gone, hope to never see them again.

 

[Megan]

I like looking at HMs from a story point instead of a technical one. When playing the game, having the members of a team be important in certain battle scenarios is one thing. Another thing is that they also need to fullfil a role during world traversion.

There's one thing that I liked in older RPGs. It's something, that unfortunately stopped being relevant a while ago due to streamlining and stuff.
Assume that you play an RPG and you hit a road block. You explore a bit, get further in the story, etc. At some point a new party member joins. The catch is: that party member has an ability that you can use to get past the road block. This ability is only his, so you will never find any other character that can help you in those situations. It makes him unique, gives him purpose beyond the battlefield.

HMs are kinda the same. You try to build a diverse team that can get you through different situations. But battles are not your only enemy. The land itself challenges you with its road blocks, but that's ok. Your team got you covered.

But they're not perfect. Having a way to deal with the world, comes at the cost of a moveslot. Suddenly, your options are limited and you're forced to make plans as you can't get another op move on one of your team members. Your creativity is challenged by the limits of the game. But in return your Pokemon got a unique role and therefor becomes unique in the story that plays out in front of you.

When they got rid of HMs, they also got rid of the one thing that allowed your party to interact with the world you're traversing. I don't mind them existing, though it would be cool to see them back, but a lot more diverse. Do we really need 3 HM moves that are Water-Type based in one and the same game?

 

[Sydian]

Or, while we're at it... I don't understand why we should still have the same restrictions as Gen II and there couldn't be a move deleter every two cities (or even every city) instead of one per region.

also a great point. for some reason, the first thing that came to mind in my original post was gen III. you're six badges in by the time you get to the move deleter. and as i recall, you're just plain shit out of luck in gen I and II (bar crystal). i'm pretty sure that the move deleter only started to become a staple in crystal and even then...you had to wait until blackthorn city...7 badges in. lol and i think there's another in kanto, but i may be mistaken.

i would say abolish the move deleter entirely, but i think it would still have its uses, even if you can delete HMs yourself. but at least make them appear earlier in the game and/or more frequently. maybe like the eevee/pikachu move tutor in LGPE. just have one stationed in every pokemon center.

this got long, my bad. lol