In game movesets vs competitive movesets, why differentiate?

[Howmander]

so one thing I hate more and more and more is everytime you ask for moveset help, there's always this every growing rift of "well competitively you HAVE to use this and only this, but if you're playing in game, then it doesn't matter because ANYTHING works" (and this came from a discussion about Altaria who had two identical movests, but because one had cloud 9 and the other had natural cure, the natural cure one was uniformly dismissed as not being competitive, even though most of the popular competitive sites I am aware of tend to suggest natural cure either way more often than or just as much as cloud 9, even though everything else about the two altaria was exactly identical in every single way)

Why are we not allowed to have good movesets even if it's just in game? When someone asks for help building a moveset, shouldn't it be as good as possible no matter what the user plans to use it for? I get that the in game game is much easier so you don't NEED to have inventive, creative, sickeningly strong strategies and moves, but why does that automatically preclude good movesets? Why is someone asking for help on what they should put on this or that be based on whether they are using it in game on their own time and hinge directly on what you consider is or is not important? can we start all making good suggestions no matter what the pokemon is being used for or are people that don't plan to fly to Spring Regional championships just considered the absolute scum of the earth and don't deserve good suggestions when trying to build their pokemon teams? :p

 

[Bounsweet]

You may not have gotten the memo, but the great thing about Pokémon is that you can play however you want!

There is a very big difference between playing the game competitively as in VGC or even online via Smogon standards, and playing casually in-game. The AI in Pokémon games is understandably easy as hell (it's a kids game ffs lol.) but when you play against other people who know the mechanics of the game, then you have to step it up.

Anyway, there's the exploration factor in Pokémon, while you need Rock Smash to navigate caves and terrain, it's a piss poor move that wouldn't do nearly as good as other Fighting-types moves like Brick Break or Sky Uppercut or something.

Plus, because the games are no longer like Red and Blue where each Pokémon only had like maybe 2 or 3 good movesets and the possibilities are much, much more expansive now, it's 100% understandable that there is no "one perfect moveset" for a Pokémon, unless its movepool is extremely limited.

 

[PlatinumDude]

The move sets for competitive and in-game are also different because you have to consider the type coverage that each move has for the Pokemon.

Let's take Haxorus as an example. Its offensive moves include Outrage, Dragon Claw, Earthquake, Poison Jab, X-Scissor, Shadow Claw, Giga Impact, Surf and Dragon Pulse. Out of that list, only the first four actually see competitive use because the former two give Haxorus Dragon STAB, Earthquake lets it hit Steel Pokemon and Poison Jab lets it take care of Fairies. However, the other moves aren't used on it because X-Scissor and Shadow Claw don't hit anything else noteworthy that Outrage can't; in fact, a neutral STAB Outrage outdamages 2x super effective versions of both moves. Giga Impact, while powerful, forces Haxorus to stay in battle and do nothing at the next turn, giving the opponent time to do whatever they please; not only that, it has redundant coverage with Haxorus' Dragon STAB. Surf and Dragon Pulse run off of Haxorus' significantly lower Special Attack compared to its huge Attack.

If you want to use any of these moves in your in-game Haxorus, fine. Just remember that in competitive circles, there are much better options out there to maximize a Pokemon's type coverage; heck some Pokemon can just achieve that in only a few moves.

 

[Bidoof FTW]

Competitively a move with 5-8bp is fine because you often won't be using it enough for it to matter. In-game a move like hydro pump, although good, isn't necessarily the best move because you may go several battles without healing. Other than that, use whatever you want whenever you want.

 

[Khaotic Kebab]

I also hate how, to competitive players, there is only one way to use any given Pokèmon - use anything other than the norm, and you're wrong in their eyes. More often than not, a set that competitive players would immediately assume won't work is usually the set that ends up trouncing them.
Yeah, as you can see, I have no respect for people like that. You make a lot of sense, OP.

 

[Bounsweet]

I also hate how, to competitive players, there is only one way to use any given Pokèmon - use anything other than the norm, and you're wrong in their eyes. More often than not, a set that competitive players would immediately assume won't work is usually the set that ends up trouncing them.
Yeah, as you can see, I have no respect for people like that. You make a lot of sense, OP.

It doesn't quite work like that. The way that movesets and strategies are developed in competitive play are based first and foremost on the Pokémon's stats and typing. I've seen some Pokémon who are able to run sets that are both purely offensive and other sets that are purely defensive - neither set being wrong. It's all a matter of taking advantage of what the Pokémon can offer and how it can benefit your team and complement the overall synergy.

It's not about "staying within the norm." It's about using the most out of what you're given.

BidoofFTW makes a good point too - PP is something that's considered much more in-game than it is competitively.

 

[Khaotic Kebab]

It doesn't quite work like that. The way that movesets and strategies are developed in competitive play are based first and foremost on the Pokémon's stats and typing. I've seen some Pokémon who are able to run sets that are both purely offensive and other sets that are purely defensive - neither set being wrong. It's all a matter of taking advantage of what the Pokémon can offer and how it can benefit your team and complement the overall synergy.

It's not about "staying within the norm." It's about using the most out of what you're given.

......Which doesn't always have to be the same thing every time. This is why I have such an issue with Smogon: They give you 1 or 2 sets per Pokèmon and often discourage anything else. Fun fact: My most successful set ever has been one absolutely everyone assumed wouldn't work. Including Smogon.

 

[Nah]

People always look at Smogon sets in the wrong way. -_- They are merely recommendations, and they are just examples of a few things that are known to work well, and not the only things that can work. No one absolutely has to use any Smogon sets; a Smogonite will not come to your house and rough you up for using Mantine in OU or using a non-standard Latias set. Yes, some people will tell you that you're wrong and that you should use this this over that or do this instead of that, and it's like that in every single competitive thing that has ever and will ever exist. But at the end of the day, you don't have to do anything anyone says in regards to sets/team-building. And if you aren't prepared to deal with people who're very adamant about their opinion(s), then say out of the kitchen.

But anyway, Howmander, when you can beat the game with an over-leveled Charizard that knows Flame Burst/Dragon Claw/Air Slash/Fly and some healing items in your bag, it's like.....why bother?

 

[Void.]

lol no one said you can't use good sets in-game, they're just saying it's simply not necessary. getting mons with the right moves, evs, nature etc takes time, so if you're only going to use it in-game most people aren't going to find investing that much time to be worthwhile. if you post a thread specifically asking for in-game help, you can't complain if people give you what is generally the best suggestion, which would be sets that still work in-game and don't take as much time to make. if you want people to give you suggestions that will make your team be the best it could possibly be, then you should mention that in your post when you request help, because people can't be catering for the minority every time.

 

[skyburial]

Pretty much what Zekrom said. You can take the risk of using 2-turn moves on an AI that only switches once in a blue moon. You can run 75% accuracy moves and heal off the hit you take with a Hyper Potion on the occasion of a miss. And you can level creep everything in the game with the right amount of grinding, abusing STAB mechanics on everything but 1/4 resisted hits.

 

[Pokedra]

In-game Pokemon focuses on getting the best out of what you have on you. Competitive focuses on squeezing every last drop out of power/tankiness out of your Pokemon.

It's like complaining about highschool basketball being different from NBA. You're talking about two different things so of course they'll be considered different. Nothing is stopping you from using good sets in game and vice-versa nothing is stopping you from using in-game sets in competitive.

 

[Polar Spectrum]

Why differentiate?

Because are you really gonna stall Youngster Joey's Ratatta with your Eviolite Chansey? Are you really gonna set up stealth rocks on Ace Trainer Noel who has 2 pokemon? Are you really gonna need choice specs on your level 100 Sylveon for its Hyper Voice to OHKO the Elite 4's pokemon? Do you really want to paralyze Hex Maniac Eliza's banette with Thunder Wave instead of just KO'ing it? Are you really gonna Dragon Dance your Gyarados up to 'sweep' Preschooler Keenan's team of hoppip and spinda when it could have surf instead, to carry you across that water?

If your answer was yes to any of these questions, you're either sadistic or confused hahaha.

Anyways without sounding snarky - there's a difference between what's ideal for game playthroughs and competitive battling; simply because there is a difference between a game playthrough and competitive battling.

You can do either however you like, and if you're having a good time you win either way y'know? But just like greeting both your friend and your boss with "Whaddup ma nigga?" - you can do it, buuuut the outcome is gonna be different between the two. Hence, why there's a difference in what's best for one situation, and what's best for another.