Is Ash a disappointment?

Ash is handled the best way possible.
 
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DawnLover said:
How so? He's caught in an endless cycle and seems like he'll never win a league at this rate. That doesn't exactly scream successful character to me and definitely not satisfying.
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Ash loses the league so he has an excuse to go to a new region. Simple really.
 
Whats disappointing to me is the reset that happens at the beginning of every region. It'd be nice to see more acknowledgment of his old mons and mons he has already seen before. I understand wanting to highlight the new pokemon in the region but that can be done while still paying homage to his old pokemon and the knowledge he has gained

In conjunction, I'd like to see more of the tactics he's gained be used more often, specifically the counter shield. That was a pretty great tactic and one that has no reason to not be used in unova and onward. It'd give the anime more continuity and keep all of the fans its accumulated over the years
 
DawnLover said:
But that makes his character development pointless since he's doing the same thing over and over again and can't win. The way he's being treated is clearly going to turn fans away from the anime at some point and that definitely has been happening for years already.
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If Ash wins the league then the anime is over. It is not about winning. It is about an adventure with friends.
 
Ash just gets rehashed every few years to suit a new generation of games and children. If I watch as a cynical adult that expects a character to grow and change it is different. I don't exactly follow Ash along on his journey like it was when I was a kid. While I can feel disappointed by characters,I don't give much thought to it.
 
Alexander18 said:
If Ash wins the league then the anime is over. It is not about winning. It is about an adventure with friends.
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That makes no sense Ash can sitll win a league and you won't have to stop the anime. All you have to do is say he's too weak to battle the E4 so he will go to a different region to get stronger.

FireSnow said:
Whats disappointing to me is the reset that happens at the beginning of every region. It'd be nice to see more acknowledgment of his old mons and mons he has already seen before. I understand wanting to highlight the new pokemon in the region but that can be done while still paying homage to his old pokemon and the knowledge he has gained

In conjunction, I'd like to see more of the tactics he's gained be used more often, specifically the counter shield. That was a pretty great tactic and one that has no reason to not be used in unova and onward. It'd give the anime more continuity and keep all of the fans its accumulated over the years
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I think he stop using it is because the pokemon he had in both Unova and Kalos can't use it.

Alexander18 said:
Ash loses the league so he has an excuse to go to a new region. Simple really.
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Ash won the BF and OI and he still goes to a new region so that makes no sense.
 
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I would say that Ash is a disappointment if you look at his character as a whole, because he never learns anything. It's like trying to hold water in a leaky bucket. Everything he goes through just drips out over time and he's left an empty shell by the time the next season rolls around...obviously he needs to be this way, because he's been at this for a long time now and he'd be Champion-level if he retained everything he'd learned, but even so.

But on a series-by-series basis, Ash's competency is variable. Personally I only found him a disappointment in BW and XYZ, because his league losses were so badly written that it ruined the entire arc. Whilst I like DP Ash the most, I would say Battle Frontier Ash and Orange Islands Ash are the two least disappointing, because they actually accomplish what they set out to do.
 
I stand by what I've always believed in - Ash should have been retired as a character after the Johto league and finally beating Gary. Let Brandon (or even just May) star for ADV, Dawn/Lucas for DP, Hilda/Hilbert for BW etc etc. You know, let the actual PCs advertise their respective region?

That said, I no longer watch for Ash. Pretty much become accustomed to a static character so I watch for the other characters in a saga.

Alexander18 said:
Ash loses the league so he has an excuse to go to a new region. Simple really.
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This argument falls flat because he won the Battle Frontier and was offered a position but turned it down to explore new regions and Pokemon.
 
I can concur Ash is a blandish character, but I doubt they would change him soon. After all he still makes the anime function so they don't really have much incentive to improve the anime. When I look at the anime, it seems to have to in a way advertise the new regions while trying to keep an okayish story (would explain why they'd need an episode about practically every Pokémon)

However, I can say in episodes he's handled well he can be pretty good.
Some examples that come to my mind would be his Dynamic with Paul, His depression in
Spoiler:


So I personally would say Ash is a disappointment, but that his disappointment is more the fault of how the writers abuse the formula (go, do things, filler, league [whether win or lose] and reset). He can be a good character, there's just no writing staff that care to make him better. Plus this is Pokémon, so if the formula works then they just change it and make it work for that region, which is sad since that limits ability to expand into other areas.

Though I do like his relationships with his mons.
 
I'm quite surprised Ash even bothers with the leagues: he saved the world several times,
took down all the core games criminal organizations in his continuity(except Team Rocket),
a few poachers and other minor organizations, rode Lugia, rode Giratina, caught the interest of
a latias, was brought back to life a few times, has had and still has overall eventful journeys...
Anyway, I started watching/re-watching the animated series since the first episode, right now I'm
at the 14th episode of the "Adventures to the Orange islands", I'm overall satisfied with the hot-aired,
clumsy, kindhearted Ash, the other characters, the series in general, and I enjoy the recurring mistakes as well.
 
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Honestly, he should have been removed in DP or XY, if not after Johto, because he's been treated horribly as of right now: Two regions where he either did as well as if not worse as the previous region, two instances, three if we count Johto, where despite improving, his victory was stolen from him despite it strongly implying he'll win this time, and now this current region where he wasn't even allowed to pursue the league until well within the region's saga, 43 episodes in.
 
Meyneth said:
I would say that Ash is a disappointment if you look at his character as a whole, because he never learns anything. It's like trying to hold water in a leaky bucket. Everything he goes through just drips out over time and he's left an empty shell by the time the next season rolls around...obviously he needs to be this way, because he's been at this for a long time now and he'd be Champion-level if he retained everything he'd learned, but even so.

But on a series-by-series basis, Ash's competency is variable. Personally I only found him a disappointment in BW and XYZ, because his league losses were so badly written that it ruined the entire arc. Whilst I like DP Ash the most, I would say Battle Frontier Ash and Orange Islands Ash are the two least disappointing, because they actually accomplish what they set out to do.
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Well put, I concur.

I would be much more into Pokemon anime if it was done the same way the Adventures manga is, basically telling a new story with new characters for each region. Ash is the epitome of the reset button trope, simply because the writers refuse to age him and allow him to actually grow as a character for the long haul.

I understand the target audience is young children in general, but there are so many ways they could allow Ash to grow, stay in the anime, and pass the torch at the same time. I think an excellent example of this being done in shounen is Naruto, but the eternally-10-year-old-Ash thing makes me think the anime may be more on the kodomomuke side.

I started watching Sun and Moon a couple of months ago, and have been a bit irked by how completely unaware Ash is of basic tenets of Pokemon. It's still a fun watch though, and I suppose that's the point. The writers are telling us all, "Don't overthink Ash!"
 
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To everyone complaining about Ash resetting himself every region, that's only happened once on Best Wishes. His knowledge from his previous journey carries over in the next region, and SM shows this very promptly alongside with Pikachu not getting nerfed this time. So much so that fans are now complaining about his winning streak when previously they complained about him making rookie mistakes.
 
SH60 said:
That makes no sense Ash can sitll win a league and you won't have to stop the anime. All you have to do is say he's too weak to battle the E4 so he will go to a different region to get stronger.

Ash won the BF and OI and he still goes to a new region so that makes no sense.
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It is pretty clear writers won't allow Ash to win the league. Also he can battle elite four without winning league.

Frozocrone said:
This argument falls flat because he won the Battle Frontier and was offered a position but turned it down to explore new regions and Pokemon.
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Battle Frontier is not a league. Big difference.

DawnLover said:
Why does the anime need to end when they could just replace Ash with someone else as a main character?
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Not happening. Ash is staying as main character.
 
Alexander18 said:
Battle Frontier is not a league. Big difference.
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Maybe not, but the Orange Islands was most certainly a league, and that STILL had Ash journeying DESPITE having him outright winning it.

Pinkie-Dawn said:
To everyone complaining about Ash resetting himself every region, that's only happened once on Best Wishes. His knowledge from his previous journey carries over in the next region, and SM shows this very promptly alongside with Pikachu not getting nerfed this time. So much so that fans are now complaining about his winning streak when previously they complained about him making rookie mistakes.
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A winning streak wouldn't even be something I'd complain about, it's more that he's stuck at a school when he should be overseeing the development of a new league (and the fact that they're even going to COVER a new Pokémon league now is actually a GOOD thing for me, and if anything, I'm angry that they took this long to even do it, as they should have stuck with Ash trying to do the league, even aid in building it, rather than being shoved into a school environment despite past episodes showing he didn't even NEED school).

And the only reason I'd complain about a winning streak is if he used strictly rookie Pokémon (and even there, I wouldn't mind if Pikachu beat the Gym Leaders easily since I'd expect that). I wouldn't complain about a winning streak if he at LEAST used his old Pokémon so that him winning easily against the Gym Leaders is more palatable.
 
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SH60 said:
He has to win the league to battle the E4. He was able to win the BF and OI and keep going.
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Actually no. He had battles with Bertha and others outside the league. Orange Islands and battle frontier are side wins.

weedle_mchairybug said:
Maybe not, but the Orange Islands was most certainly a league, and that STILL had Ash journeying DESPITE having him outright winning it.
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The Orange League is a side league made for the anime only. Ash was allowed to win it because of that.
 
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