Mega Gengar's suspect test

[Nah]

Stats: 60/65/80/170/95/130
Ability: Shadow Tag

So y'all are probably aware that Mega Gengar is currently being suspect tested. I figured that we might as well discuss it, since Mega Gengar is the first Pokemon ever to possibly be banned from Ubers. Sounds pretty important to me.

So, whatcha think about Mega Gengar? Should it or should it not be banned from Ubers? If it is banned, how will that effect the future of the Uber tier?

And whatever else you wanna say about this thing.

 

[MoxieInfinite]

****s on an entire playstyle unless you run donkey's mega scizor stall (raped by hp fire gengar though) or hhm's sandstall. does it deserve to be banned? yes.

should it be banned? no.

 

[Polar Spectrum]

Wait what lol

This, this is the kind of thing I laugh at.

Banned from yoloswagon420Webalancethesmogmeta's highest tier... would that mean by their rules nobody could use it ever; in any circumstance against anything?

 

[Sablrainy]

Mega Gengar banned from Ubers? Boy, that'd be weird... I say keep him as he is; Ubers is a free-for-all; a playstyle where you can use anything!

 

[Professor_Jared]

Ummm....wow this ban is lolworthy just based on the principle of how bad it is. Ubers= Free-for-all, banning Mega Gengar from a free for all tier kind of defeats the purpose of that particular metagame altogether.

 

[Megan]

I don't really care for Ubers, to be honest. All I know is that it's basically a ban list for OU and that some people just wanted to use those Pokemon anyway. In my opinion "Ubers" means "to broken, to be used" and while I somewhat can understand that Swagger and Evasion and the likes got banned, banning a Pokemon that's broken in a tier full of broken Pokemon doesn't really make sense to me.

On the other hand: maybe somewhere in the future they introduce another tier called "uber Pokemon that are too uber to be used against other ubers in Ubers" or something along the line.

 

[Polar Spectrum]

Mega Gengar banned from Ubers? Boy, that'd be weird... I say keep him as he is; Ubers is a free-for-all; a playstyle where you can use anything!

Ummm....wow this ban is lolworthy just based on the principle of how bad it is. Ubers= Free-for-all, banning Mega Gengar from a free for all tier kind of defeats the purpose of that particular metagame altogether.

I agree with both of you copmletely

 

[MoxieInfinite]

uber is so depth now, people look at it as a tier, and not a pure playable banlist, and all the dedicated ubers players (hack, edgar, whatever) want their primary tier to be balanced. understandable.

the free-for-all thing is whats counting against a ban too, which is what id vote if i bothered.

is it broken: yes

should it be banned: no

 

[Tyrael]

It could just be because I don't play singles very often, but I fail to see how Mega Gengar would be broken enough to even be considered for being banned from Ubers. The only thing I can really think of is the fact that it has a variety of sets it can run and still be very effective, giving it different checks/counters which makes predicting it hard.

Honestly, Aegis/Mawile/Gengar all have had the same reasons for suspect/ban as far as I'm concerned. They each have multiple sets they can run with different checks/counters and Smogon likes predictability in their tiers. That would be the only reason I could see Gengar being banned out of Ubers, is because it's "too hard to predict".

 

[Anti]

giving it different checks/counters which makes predicting it hard.

Trappers can only be checked via RKs and certainly can't be countered unless you run D_A's mighty Shed Shell stall.

Anyway, this test interests me because of how clear-cut it would be if this was OU or NU or Balanced Hackmons (note: I have no idea what this is). As many have alluded to, Ubers is just tiered differently because the very definition of the tier is "everything is allowed." While I sympathize with desires of a balanced metagame etc., I think Ubers shouldn't be fundamentally redefined. Just an opinion, I think this is just about what you personally think about Ubers. (For what it's worth, I've never played Ubers, so it's not like my opinion matters much/is that strong.)

 

[MoxieInfinite]

Mega gengar massacres stall in ubers, and stalls are usually forced to run stuff like pursuit scizor/ttar (sandstall) to keep themselves alive. And since it already may have killed something really important for you it could be over already; if it traps palkia scarfogre gg. if it traps landorus-t band hooh gg. if it traps rt xern darkrai/yveltal gg. Ofc it isnt that simple, but thats kinda how it works with offense being so dominant.

@Anti Shed Shell Blissey is the norm in Ubers. Unless you wanna be hipster and run the manliest of all sets, Psychic Blissey

 

[KorpiklaaniVodka]

Shadow Tag is a broken ability, but Mega Gengar isn't "uncompetitive" in my book. Sure, it forces stall to run stuff like Knock Off Ferrothorn or Psychic Blissey, but it does allow you once to switch to a Pokemon that can threaten Gengar before it mega evolves.

Also, do remember that Gengar has absolutely pathetic defenses, meaning it can't really switch in on anything bar Blissey, unlike Wobbuffet and Gothitelle. Therefore, Gengar usually needs to switch in after one of its teammates has fainted, and when combined with the fact that it needs to mega evolve to acquire Shadow Tag... yeah.

However, if Smogon would ban Shadow Tag, that doesn't change anything for Gengar: its mega form will be unusable. Mega Gengar is a huge pain in the butt for stall, but against offense... not so much.

 

[Dark Azelf]

I disagree.

Shadow Tag is the most noncompetitive ability in the game. Mega-Gar takes no skill to use. Lets face it, if you use a Shadow Tag user to wall break you are basically admitting you have 0 skill anyway so i mean.

Its literally as easy as this "Pick a pokemon you want to sweep. Put in MegaGar/Shadow Tag user. Eliminate said roadblock for your sweeper with Shadow Tag user and not be a slack jawed pot hole dwelling slow witted oaf and make dumb plays. Win." wow much skill such strategy many hard wow.

Also, do remember that Gengar has absolutely pathetic defenses, meaning it can't really switch in on anything bar Blissey,

.....Apart from ya know, any defensive pokemon in the game...or a immunity/resists, toxic, a support move, something you can take a hit from and KO/cripple next turn, revenge kills etc etc. I could post more but i think ive made my point :\

Also 60/80/95 defenses arent frail....at all. Its more than good enough to take nautral hits and being immune and resisting some VERY common moves helps it big time.

However, if Smogon would ban Shadow Tag, that doesn't change anything for Gengar: its mega form will be unusable. Mega Gengar is a huge pain in the butt for stall, but against offense... not so much.

Disagree again. Against offense its pretty much equally as bad. It can still pick off sweepers on revenge kills or choice locked resists/immunity/support moves and its not dying to unboosted neutral hits anytime soon so can switch in easier than you think. Ghost is kinda the best attacking typing in the game period and Gegar has that as well as a retarded movepool and base 130 speed which is faster than....well most of offense lol. Also good luck finding something on offense that wants to take hits from something with base 170 special attack lol.

 

[Polar Spectrum]

It could just be because I don't play singles very often, but I fail to see how Mega Gengar would be broken enough to even be considered for being banned from Ubers. The only thing I can really think of is the fact that it has a variety of sets it can run and still be very effective, giving it different checks/counters which makes predicting it hard.

Honestly, Aegis/Mawile/Gengar all have had the same reasons for suspect/ban as far as I'm concerned. They each have multiple sets they can run with different checks/counters and Smogon likes predictability in their tiers. That would be the only reason I could see Gengar being banned out of Ubers, is because it's "too hard to predict".

This guy right here, I one thousand percent agree with. Plus I've just personally seen Mega Gengar shut down far too many times to not laugh at people who can't deal with it. Especially in a tier - where anything's permitted. Really? If you can't deal with any one singular thing in a tier / format where anything is permitted - then maybe it's the format that's broken not the pokemon.

 

[Dark Azelf]

If something makes the game ass (i dont even play ubers), then why shouldnt it be banned? SwagPlay, Moody and several other things arent permissible in ubers because they are frankly bs and make the tier balls.

The uber tier was initially a banlist, but its now got a strong playerbase and is more like a normal tier which people play aswell as being a banlist. Due to the fact that people play it, I personally think that if players want to make the metagame balanced and have as many usable pokemon as possible to use that arent just slain by mega Gar then banning Mega Gar clearly benefits the playability of ubers.

Its view like "LAWL BUT NOTHING KEN B BANNED FRM UBERZ" that hinder tiering processes and playability of tiers. Kinda like when people couldnt wrap their tiny brains around last gen's OU ban that swift swim + drizzle on the same team and bawwed about it being "too complex". Is it too complex? Maybe if you arent very intelligent.

On a side note megas were imo the worst thing to happen to pokemon. Most of them have higher base stat totals than most ubers, broken stats, broken abilities, retarded movepool, retarded bulk and frankly the more of them at this point banned the better. :/ Also it backs up what i say when we ask ourselves "what has been banned this gen so far more than anything?" and the answer to that would be megas. :|

 

[Altairis]

Shadow Tag is a broken ability, but Mega Gengar isn't "uncompetitive" in my book. Sure, it forces stall to run stuff like Knock Off Ferrothorn or Psychic Blissey, but it does allow you once to switch to a Pokemon that can threaten Gengar before it mega evolves.

Also, do remember that Gengar has absolutely pathetic defenses, meaning it can't really switch in on anything bar Blissey, unlike Wobbuffet and Gothitelle. Therefore, Gengar usually needs to switch in after one of its teammates has fainted, and when combined with the fact that it needs to mega evolve to acquire Shadow Tag... yeah.

However, if Smogon would ban Shadow Tag, that doesn't change anything for Gengar: its mega form will be unusable. Mega Gengar is a huge pain in the butt for stall, but against offense... not so much.

Sure, you do get one chance to switch out but it's not like as soon as it Mega Evolves it's going to stay in the battle until it dies. MegaGar can easily switch out if you bring in something that could put a dent in it, then switch back in some other time, trap and kill.

Its view like "LAWL BUT NOTHING KEN B BANNED FRM UBERZ" that hinder tiering processes and playability of tiers. Kinda like when people couldnt wrap their tiny brains around last gen's OU ban that swift swim + drizzle on the same team and bawwed about it being "too complex". Is it too complex? Maybe if you arent very intelligent.

I definitely agree with this. Plus, if you don't play ubers competitively (on ladders/tours) and just for fun or with your friends you ARE allowed to use whichever Pokemon you want. I don't play ubers so I don't think I can offer much of an opinion but I think it's a little sad that people are just dismissing it or calling it "lolworthy" because of what the tier is "supposed to be."

 

[Polar Spectrum]

I think it's a little sad that people are just dismissing it or calling it "lolworthy" because of what they tier is "supposed to be."

I have some things I'll need a full keyboard to type out in response to dark azelf and thus won't touch at the moment - but on this. If you find it sad that some people dismiss the suggestion of a ban because what they consider the ubers tier is "supposed to be" doesn't involve banning a Pokemon from it -how does that differ from any ban from another tier because of what Smogon thinks the entire meta game "should be"?

 

[Polar Spectrum]

I totally forgot what I was gonna type those many weeks ago :I

But really, did this ever get concluded? I haven't seen news on it anywhere, and was kinda interested. Not enough to navigate their site tho, obviously.

 

[cjakabuck90]

People only play ubers because of all the bans in on the first place. I very rarely follow smogon tiers when battling because it takes from the game. Everything can be considered "broken or OP" if you can't stop it. What's next ban SkillSwap Spinda? Or maybe TruantEntertainmentDurant? They're just too controlling imo to be unofficial. If you want to build an environment for those who adhere top it that's your thing but let's be honest it's getting out of control. Banned Megas?? Can't stop it let's ban it Lmbo

 

[Nah]

But really, did this ever get concluded? I haven't seen news on it anywhere, and was kinda interested. Not enough to navigate their site tho, obviously.

I was wondering about this too, and I can never find Smogon's announcements half the time, so I just went and made a team with Mega Gengar on it and did an Ubers battle with it.

It let me use it, so that must mean that Mega Gengar was not banned from Ubers.