Moveset Help & Other Questions (FAQ in first post)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Juxapose said:
Okay, someone needs to explain this one to me:

This battle I was in had a Sylveon that completely devastated my team. The odd thing is that this Sylveon does nothing but spam Hyper Voice and does more than 50% damage to any Pokemon it wants. I have a Lapras with 31 IV and 252 EV to both HP and Special defense, this thing did 55% of it's total HP to it. Even against a Mega Freaking Audino with 31 IV, 252 EV to HP and 200 EV to Special Defense, it still did more damage than 50% of it's total HP, Then I sent a Gengar, still did 89% of it's max HP despite being resistant to Fairy moves.

So tell me, what happened? And before anyone tells me that it's a Choice Spec'd Sylveon, I promise that I will make a Sylveon with 31 IV 252 EV Special attack with Modest Nature right now with a choice spec, and it will NOT do nearly that much damage to my same exact Pokemon; just to prove them wrong.
Click to expand...

252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Lapras: 229-270 (49.3 - 58.1%)

252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 200 SpD Mega Audino: 195-231 (47.5 - 56.3%) -- 82.8% chance to 2HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Gengar: 197-232 (76 - 89.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

lol
 
Emboar said:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Lapras: 229-270 (49.3 - 58.1%)

252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 200 SpD Mega Audino: 195-231 (47.5 - 56.3%) -- 82.8% chance to 2HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Gengar: 197-232 (76 - 89.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

lol
Click to expand...

1. If this is true, why doesn't everyone have this Pokemon?

2. Making a Sylveon to test this theory.

3. How do you stop this Sylveon other than Physical Pokemon that can outspeed and OHKO? (Trick Question, most Pokemon can't OHKO a Sylveon with certain builds.)
 
Juxapose said:
1. If this is true, why doesn't everyone have this Pokemon?

2. Making a Sylveon to test this theory.

3. How do you stop this Sylveon other than Physical Pokemon that can outspeed and OHKO? (Trick Question, most Pokemon can't OHKO a Sylveon with certain builds.)
Click to expand...
Despite the seemingly absurd power of Specs Sylveon, it's slow, and there's still a number of Pokemon that can handle those Pixilated Hyper Voices and threaten it:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 248 HP / 164 SpD Mega Scizor: 119-141 (34.6 - 41.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
96+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Sylveon: 308-366 (78.5 - 93.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Metagross: 128-151 (42.5 - 50.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Sylveon: 606-714 (154.5 - 182.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 144 SpD Mega Venusaur: 105-125 (28.8 - 34.3%) -- 3.4% chance to 3HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Jirachi: 101-119 (25 - 29.4%) -- guaranteed 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 66-78 (20.4 - 24.1%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

There's more than that, like Ferrothorn and Amoonguss too. And none of those are uncommon. While some of them do have to watch out for Psyshock or Hidden Power Fire, Sylveon being locked into one move because of Specs makes it easier to deal with. Not to mention that Heatran, one of the most commonly used Pokemon, doesn't care about those 2 moves either (and running HP Ground makes it lose to Ferrothorn and Scizor).
 
Juxapose said:
1. If this is true, why doesn't everyone have this Pokemon?

2. Making a Sylveon to test this theory.

3. How do you stop this Sylveon other than Physical Pokemon that can outspeed and OHKO? (Trick Question, most Pokemon can't OHKO a Sylveon with certain builds.)
Click to expand...

Well, this is a pretty good example of how a Pokemon can seem better on paper than it is in practice. Sylveon is threatening, but people don't use it for a variety of reasons. It is very slow and physically frail, so getting it into a battle safely and firing off its attacks is easier said than done. It just isn't adept at pushing tempo since so many Pokemon can force it out. (Think Heatran, Ferrothorn, Charizard X, Charizard Y, Talonflame, Venusaur, Excadrill, Metagross, Victini, Scizor, Chansey, Gengar, Lopunny, Bisharp, Hoopa-Unbound, Volcarona, Magnezone...) Being a slow choice-locked Pokemon is no fun. Also, offensive teams that can't switch into it get to choose what Sylveon kills, which limits its impact. Sylveon is only getting in safely once or twice per game against stronger offenses, but if it manages to come in on a non-boosted Thundurus but the offense has an Azumarill at 10%, Sylveon's huge damage output is going to be irrelevant.

In other words, you stop Sylveon by putting pressure on it, which is actually pretty easy to do. When it gets in, depending on your team structure, there are ways to check--and exploit--Sylveon and its presence. A lot of bad Pokemon have very impressive damage calculations. Which, by the way, are accurate. I'm not sure what "if this is true" is supposed to mean lol, but if you doubt their accuracy, look up the damage formula and plug it in yourself. Sylveon hits like a truck. It's just held back in other aspects.
 
i've had much experience using choice specs sylveon. it annihilates people who are unprepared for an attacking forme of sylveon, but otherwise it just underperforms vs well built teams. echoing what anti said that it has great attacking potential with pixilate hyper voice, but it lacks an actual "push" to be an amazing offensive staple that can rival those other special fairies.
 
These are fair and reasonable arguments. However, there is one small fact you all forgot. In a team of 6, how can you carry ALL of the pokemon you need for threats? Not to mention that all these so called "counters" have massive flaws that can easily be dealt with before sending Sylveon out to ruin your day. Not to mention that in a 3v3 battle, predicting whether your opponent will send their Sylveon out or not is a frustrating feat. Lets break down the counters, shall we?

Mega Scizor:
I have one of these, but everyone seems to have HP ice or Fire, so Scizor seems to go down to just about any prepared special attacker, or any physical attacker with Fire Fang or Fire Punch. If I had one of these in my Party, My opponent will most likely have a Pokemon with a fire move to rid of this pest before sending Sylveon out.

Metagross/Mega Metagross:
Knock Off, enough said. Everyone seems to have a Pokemon with this move.

Mega Venosaur:
Talonflame + Brave Bird + Gale Wings. That's it, I'm done.

Jirachi:
1. I don't have one.
2. This Pokemon is banned in Rated Battles.

Heatran:
I have one, and possibly a good counter. But that 4x weakness to ground. . . . Another common coverage type.

Ferrothorn:
1. Same problem as Scizor.
2. Don't have one.

Amoongus:
This is a really sorry counter. It just plain sucks, and so many other Pokemon can easily kill it off. I like the Mega Venosaur idea 100x better.

Charizard X or Y
You are taking up a mega slot for Sylveon? Really?

Talonflame:
Rock moves or Stealth Rock .
I have a Talonflame, but people know better by now.

Excadrill:
This Pokemon has always been a joke to me.

Victini:
Same Problem as Jirachi.

Chansey:
Toxic.

Gengar:
Read my earlier post, this thing just wrecked a Gengar,

Lopunny:
Srsly?

Bisharp:
Who trains a Bisharp?

Hoopa:
Another banned Legendary.

Volcarona:
Left in the landfill with Charizard and Talonflame.

Magnezone:
Shares it's grave with Heatran.
 
Juxapose said:
These are fair and reasonable arguments. However, there is one small fact you all forgot. In a team of 6, how can you carry ALL of the pokemon you need for threats? Not to mention that all these so called "counters" have massive flaws that can easily be dealt with before sending Sylveon out to ruin your day. Not to mention that in a 3v3 battle, predicting whether your opponent will send their Sylveon out or not is a frustrating feat. Lets break down the counters, shall we?

Mega Scizor:
I have one of these, but everyone seems to have HP ice or Fire, so Scizor seems to go down to just about any prepared special attacker, or any physical attacker with Fire Fang or Fire Punch. If I had one of these in my Party, My opponent will most likely have a Pokemon with a fire move to rid of this pest before sending Sylveon out.

Metagross/Mega Metagross:
Knock Off, enough said. Everyone seems to have a Pokemon with this move.

Mega Venosaur:
Talonflame + Brave Bird + Gale Wings. That's it, I'm done.

Jirachi:
1. I don't have one.
2. This Pokemon is banned in Rated Battles.

Heatran:
I have one, and possibly a good counter. But that 4x weakness to ground. . . . Another common coverage type.

Ferrothorn:
1. Same problem as Scizor.
2. Don't have one.

Amoongus:
This is a really sorry counter. It just plain sucks, and so many other Pokemon can easily kill it off. I like the Mega Venosaur idea 100x better.

Charizard X or Y
You are taking up a mega slot for Sylveon? Really?

Talonflame:
Rock moves or Stealth Rock .
I have a Talonflame, but people know better by now.

Excadrill:
This Pokemon has always been a joke to me.

Victini:
Same Problem as Jirachi.

Chansey:
Toxic.

Gengar:
Read my earlier post, this thing just wrecked a Gengar,

Lopunny:
Srsly?

Bisharp:
Who trains a Bisharp?

Hoopa:
Another banned Legendary.

Volcarona:
Left in the landfill with Charizard and Talonflame.

Magnezone:
Shares it's grave with Heatran.
Click to expand...
Mega slots taken up for a sake to support/counter a single Pokemon isn't a good argument, IMO. A good portion of these Megas are even good in their own right, as seen with the Charizard forms.

Bisharp is only a check to Sylveon; it's not a counter if it can't switch to any one of its moves, particularly Hyper Voice:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 375-442 (137.8 - 162.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

However, Assault Vest variants can:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 192 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Bisharp: 250-295 (78.3 - 92.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Learn more about the difference between checks and counters here: https://www.smogon.com/smog/issue32/checks-and-counters
 
Juxapose said:
These are fair and reasonable arguments. However, there is one small fact you all forgot. In a team of 6, how can you carry ALL of the pokemon you need for threats? Not to mention that all these so called "counters" have massive flaws that can easily be dealt with before sending Sylveon out to ruin your day. Not to mention that in a 3v3 battle, predicting whether your opponent will send their Sylveon out or not is a frustrating feat. Lets break down the counters, shall we?

[insert list]
Click to expand...

This isn't how actual matches play out though. To use one of the more glaring examples, Scizor's weakness to Fire doesn't magically invalidate that it's a check to Sylveon. No Pokemon matches up well with everything--that's what team support is for. And that's sort of the thing: you mention that Sylveon's teammates can clear the way for it, but the opponent can make plays too, and "just kill Scizor with a Fire move" is quite a simplistic assertion when any Scizor team is going to have at least one check to Heatran, Zards, Talon, etc. It's actually very difficult to make Sylveon a win condition because it is so slow and easily revenge killed (see my previous post + what Zeffy said), and many of the Pokemon you brush off in your list are actually quite good, like Excadrill, Lopunny (hope it goes without saying that I was speaking of its mega evolution), and especially Bisharp.

Sylveon doesn't suck or anything, but Hyper Voice's impressive damage output does not necessarily translate to dominance. It rarely does.
 
Juxapose said:
Metagross/Mega Metagross:
Knock Off, enough said. Everyone seems to have a Pokemon with this move.
Click to expand...

js saying tho, knock off isn't boosted against mega pokemons because of their stone item.
also fyi mega metagross lives a knock off from most relevant and powerful users including weavile and bisharp, and it is plenty powerful to ohko them in return.
 
Hey everyone, I was wondering what the best nature for Electivire would be and why? Thank you for your advice and input, it is greatly appreciated!!! :)
 
Tennis Guy said:
Hey everyone, I was wondering what the best nature for Electivire would be and why? Thank you for your advice and input, it is greatly appreciated!!! :)
Click to expand...

Jolly for pure physical sets, and Naive for mixed sets. Electivire is capable of both roles:
-Wild Charge
-Earthquake
-Ice Punch
-Hidden Power (Grass)/Meditate/Power-Up Punch
Nature: Naive/Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk/4 SDef/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb

or
-Thunderbolt
-Flamethrower
-Earthquake
-Hidden Power (Grass)
Nature: Naive
EVs: 4 Atk/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb

The extra Speed from Naive/Jolly is useful, especially when you're using Motor Drive, as Electivire isn't that fast.
 
PlatinumDude said:
Jolly for pure physical sets, and Naive for mixed sets. Electivire is capable of both roles:
-Wild Charge
-Earthquake
-Ice Punch
-Hidden Power (Grass)/Meditate/Power-Up Punch
Nature: Naive/Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk/4 SDef/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb

or
-Thunderbolt
-Flamethrower
-Earthquake
-Hidden Power (Grass)
Nature: Naive
EVs: 4 Atk/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb

The extra Speed from Naive/Jolly is useful, especially when you're using Motor Drive, as Electivire isn't that fast.
Click to expand...

I understand. However, between the two natures would you say that it would be better to decrease Sp. attack or defense? Do any of the two have any use to Electivire really and if so, how? Thank you!
 
Tennis Guy said:
I understand. However, between the two natures would you say that it would be better to decrease Sp. attack or defense? Do any of the two have any use to Electivire really and if so, how? Thank you!
Click to expand...

If you're not using special attacks, use Jolly. If Electivire is mixed (uses both physical and special attacks), use Naive.
 
Hey everyone, I was wondering what the best natures for Uxie, Mesprit, and Azelf would be and why? Thank you for your advice and input, it is greatly appreciated!!! :)
 
Tennis Guy said:
Hey everyone, I was wondering what the best natures for Uxie, Mesprit, and Azelf would be and why? Thank you for your advice and input, it is greatly appreciated!!! :)
Click to expand...

Uxie is a defensive Pokemon, so Bold (or Relaxed if using both physical and special attacks, as well as using a slow U-turn if desired to get teammates in unscathed) is the preferred nature:
-Stealth Rock
-Psychic
-U-turn
-Thunder Wave/Yawn/Knock Off
Nature: Bold/Relaxed
EVs: 252 HP/200 Def/56 Spe
Item: Leftovers

Uxie can also run Calm Mind and dual screens effectively with a Timid nature, as it has decent Speed for a wall:
-Calm Mind
-Psyshock
-Signal Beam
-Giga Drain/Hidden Power (Fire)
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 Def/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Leftovers

or
-Reflect
-Light Screen
-Memento
-Stealth Rock/U-turn
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 Spe
Item: Light Clay

Azelf is mainly an offensive/speedy support Pokemon, so Timid (if using special attacks), Jolly (if using physical attacks), or Naive (if using both physical and special attacks) are the natures to use:
-Stealth Rock
-Taunt
-Flamethrower/Knock Off
-Explosion
Nature: Naive/Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk/4 SDef/252 Spe
Item: Focus Sash

or
-Nasty Plot
-Psyshock
-Fire Blast
-Dazzling Gleam/Taunt
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SAtk/4 SDef/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb

or
-Reflect
-Light Screen
-U-turn/Explosion
-Taunt/Stealth Rock/Knock Off
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 HP/4 SDef/252 Spe
Item: Light Clay

While Mesprit appears as a jack of all trades kind of Pokemon, Timid is generally the best nature to use. It faces competition from its other counterparts:
-Stealth Rock
-Psychic
-Ice Beam
-Healing Wish
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 Def/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb/Colbur Berry
 
Pikachu Cup: Electrivire

MOD EDIT: This is for the Pikachu cup.

Electivire
Ability: Motor Drive
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Ice Punch
- Protect
- Earthquake
- Low Sweep

He is my big gun of the team. He is a little frail so Im thinking about reinvesting some Evs into def but thats not the main topic.

I like my first 3 moves its the forth one I am no too happy with. I could go beast him with Superpower but that would just would cripple him. I was thinking of going with Power up punch to give Ice punch a boost and make Earthquake that more dangerous even to things that are neutral to it. I could also go with Rock slide, but that could make it Wide Guard bait. I tend to bring him as a Mid to late game sweeper.

Id like suggestions on Evs and 4th move please
 
Last edited by a moderator:
AdrianD said:
MOD EDIT: This is for the Pikachu cup.

Electivire
Ability: Motor Drive
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Ice Punch
- Protect
- Earthquake
- Low Sweep

He is my big gun of the team. He is a little frail so Im thinking about reinvesting some Evs into def but thats not the main topic.

I like my first 3 moves its the forth one I am no too happy with. I could go beast him with Superpower but that would just would cripple him. I was thinking of going with Power up punch to give Ice punch a boost and make Earthquake that more dangerous even to things that are neutral to it. I could also go with Rock slide, but that could make it Wide Guard bait. I tend to bring him as a Mid to late game sweeper.

Id like suggestions on Evs and 4th move please
Click to expand...
There are no Electric Pokemon that can learn Wide Guard, so Earthquake is perfectly safe. Just stick to the standard physical sweeper spread (max Attack/max Speed), as not even bulk investment can compensate for Electivire's frailty. Electivire can't learn Superpower, either. Low Kick and Cross Chop are its viable Fighting options. Power-Up Punch isn't that good in doubles formats, as there's the risk that Electivire can get ganged up on before it actually gets going.
 
PlatinumDude said:
There are no Electric Pokemon that can learn Wide Guard, so Earthquake is perfectly safe. Just stick to the standard physical sweeper spread (max Attack/max Speed), as not even bulk investment can compensate for Electivire's frailty. Electivire can't learn Superpower, either. Low Kick and Cross Chop are its viable Fighting options. Power-Up Punch isn't that good in doubles formats, as there's the risk that Electivire can get ganged up on before it actually gets going.
Click to expand...

How do you feel about Rock Slide as a fourth option?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top