Moveset Help & Other Questions

[kingofbluesteel]

i got an adamant dratini with dd, aqua jet,iron tail, and someother move, is aqua jet and iron tail worth keeping for a competive dragonite?

 

[Nah]

i got an adamant dratini with dd, aqua jet,iron tail, and someother move, is aqua jet and iron tail worth keeping for a competive dragonite?

Not really. Dragonite gets a stronger priority move, Extreme Speed, and while Iron Tail hits Fairies the hardest of its moves, it generally prefers the wider coverage offered by Earthquake and/or Fire Punch. If you're unable to get a Dragonite with Extreme Speed, I suppose that Aqua Jet isn't terrible; Dragonite really likes to have a priority attack either way.

 

[kingofbluesteel]

does aqua jet hit before gale wings brave bird?

 

[Nah]

does aqua jet hit before gale wings brave bird?

Only if Dragonite has a Dragon Dance boost. Aqua Jet and Gale Wings Brave Bird have the same priority (+1), so the faster Pokemon's move would go first. Without a DD, Dragonite is slower than Talonflame, but with a DD, it should be faster, so Aqua Jet would go first in that case.

 

[Akaspacecowboy]

Hi there iv got a team consisting of Gardevoir, lucario, greninja, talonflame and venusaur on pokemon y and I am looking for someone to finish it off, any ideas? Thanks!

 

[PlatinumDude]

does aqua jet hit before gale wings brave bird?

Only if Dragonite has a Dragon Dance boost. Aqua Jet and Gale Wings Brave Bird have the same priority (+1), so the faster Pokemon's move would go first. Without a DD, Dragonite is slower than Talonflame, but with a DD, it should be faster, so Aqua Jet would go first in that case.

To add, this is why Extreme Speed is Dragonite's preferred move over Aqua Jet; both do the same amount of damage on Talonflame (80 base power), but Extreme Speed is preferred for the +2 priority.

Hi there iv got a team consisting of Gardevoir, lucario, greninja, talonflame and venusaur on pokemon y and I am looking for someone to finish it off, any ideas? Thanks!

Gardevoir's Mega Evolution is so good that its regular form won't even cut it. However, your Mega slot is taken up by Charizard Y.

Sets for each:
Greninja:
-Hydro Pump/Surf
-Ice Beam
-Extrasensory
-Dark Pulse/Hidden Power (Fire/Grass)/Grass Knot/Spikes
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SAtk/4 SDef/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb/Focus Sash
Ability: Protean

Aegislash:
-Shadow Ball
-Shadow Sneak
-Sacred Sword/Iron Head/Pursuit
-King's Shield
Nature: Quiet
EVs: 244 HP/12 Def/252 SAtk
Item: Leftovers/Spooky Plate/Spell Tag

or
-Shadow Ball
-Shadow Sneak
-Flash Cannon/Pursuit
-Sacred Sword
Nature: Hasty/Naive
EVs: 4 Atk/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb

or
-Substitute
-Toxic
-King's Shield
-Shadow Ball
Nature: Modest
EVs: 244 HP/12 Def/252 SAtk
Item: Leftovers

Talonflame:
-Swords Dance
-Flare Blitz
-Brave Bird
-Roost
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb/Sharp Beak/Sky Plate
Ability: Gale Wings

or
-Flare Blitz
-Brave Bird
-U-turn
-Tailwind/Roost
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
Item: Choice Band/Sharp Beak/Sky Plate
Ability: Gale Wings

or
-Bulk Up
-Brave Bird
-Roost
-Taunt/Will-o-Wisp
Nature: Careful
EVs: 248 HP/8 Def/252 SDef
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Gale Wings

Lucario:
-Swords Dance
-Close Combat
-Extreme Speed
-Earthquake/Crunch/Ice Punch/Iron Tail
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb

Charizard Y:
-Flamethrower/Fire Blast
-Solar Beam
-Focus Blast
-Roost
Nature: Modest/Timid
EVs: 40 HP/252 SAtk/216 Spe
Item: Charizardite Y

Venusaur:
-Giga Drain
-Sludge Bomb
-Hidden Power (Fire)/Earthquake
-Sleep Powder/Synthesis
Nature: Modest/Rash
EVs: 28 HP/252 SAtk/228 Spe
Item: Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll

 

[SmashBrony]

What are the preferred natures for Zapdos & Zygarde?

 

[Hikamaru]

What are the preferred natures for Zapdos & Zygarde?

According to Smogon's updated Strategy Dex for X/Y, Zapdos' preferred nature is Bold while Zygarde's is Adamant (if running the SubCoil set, then it's Careful).

 

[Juxapose]

Can someone explain how to beat an opponent with substitute+Protect and autoheal?

 

[PlatinumDude]

Can someone explain how to beat an opponent with substitute+Protect and autoheal?

Try a Pokemon with the Infiltrator ability, such as Chandelure. Infiltrator ignores the opponent's Substitutes when attacking:
-Substitute
-Shadow Ball
-Fire Blast/Will-o-Wisp
-Taunt
Nature: Modest
EVs: 160 HP/156 SAtk/192 Spe
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire

Or you can use a Pokemon that uses sound moves such as Boomburst; sound moves also ignore Substitutes. Exploud is the most notable user:
-Boomburst
-Fire Blast/Overheat
-Focus Blast
-Flamethrower/Surf
Nature: Modest
EVs: 4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Choice Specs
Ability: Scrappy

Pokemon with multi-strike moves can also deal with Substitute users. The first hit or so breaks the Substitute, while the remaining ones strike the Pokemon. Mega Heracross or Mamoswine can do this for you:

Mega Heracross:
-Pin Missile
-Close Combat
-Rock Blast
-Earthquake/Swords Dance
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 40 HP/252 Atk/216 Spe
Item: Heracronite
Ability: Guts/Moxie

Mamoswine:
-Icicle Spear
-Earthquake
-Ice Shard
-Freeze-Dry/Superpower
Nature: Naive/Jolly
EVs: 244 Atk/12 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb
Ability: Thick Fat

 

[Juxapose]

These are not good. I need a strategy that allows ALL pokemon to be able to defeat these players.

Reason if I use one of the examples above:

I will be constantly be crippling my 3v3 team by wasting a slot to carry one of the above listed pokemon, and not every battle will require it.

Not every Pokemon will be able to defeat each sub user. A substituting Breloom will 1HKO an Exploud/Mamoswine. A substituting Gengar/Mega Gengar will 1HKO a Chandelure.

Boomburst will not do enough damage to KO a subbing Pokemon, and any trainer knows not to sub when dealing with a Pokemon that uses Boomburst. Boomburst will not do damage to subbing Pokemon with Soundproof, or a Subbing Gengar/Mega Gengar.

Not every Pokemon capable of using substitute will use it. So I will be filling up my team with the above Pokemon on a random guess. Will my opposing Breloom sub or not? Will my opposing Gengar sub or not?

I thought about using a Pokemon with Taunt, but that once again won't help. Taunt just provokes your opponent to switch or defeat Taunt user, and Sub when the coast is clear.

 

[PlatinumDude]

These are not good. I need a strategy that allows ALL pokemon to be able to defeat these players.

Reason if I use one of the examples above:

I will be constantly be crippling my 3v3 team by wasting a slot to carry one of the above listed pokemon, and not every battle will require it.

Not every Pokemon will be able to defeat each sub user. A substituting Breloom will 1HKO an Exploud/Mamoswine. A substituting Gengar/Mega Gengar will 1HKO a Chandelure.

Boomburst will not do enough damage to KO a subbing Pokemon, and any trainer knows not to sub when dealing with a Pokemon that uses Boomburst. Boomburst will not do damage to subbing Pokemon with Soundproof, or a Subbing Gengar/Mega Gengar.

I thought about using a Pokemon with Taunt, but that once again won't help. Taunt just provokes your opponent to switch or defeat Taunt user, and Sub when the coast is clear.

Specs Exploud hits like a nuke, despite its average Special Attack. Here are calcs against some common Substitute users. You're underestimating the power of Specs-boosted Boombursts here:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Boomburst vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 373-441 (105.9 - 125.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Boomburst vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Gengar: 373-441 (142.3 - 168.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Boomburst vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Raikou: 295-348 (91.6 - 108%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Boomburst vs. 244 HP / 192+ SpD Gliscor: 271-319 (76.9 - 90.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal

252+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gourgeist-Small: 373-441 (118.7 - 140.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Zygarde: 306-361 (72.8 - 85.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

All of these Pokemon tend to get KOed by Boomburst after they set up a Substitute; the very specially frail ones are OHKOed even if they don't get one up.

I hope you understand that multi-hit moves Icicle Spear will continue attacking even after a Sub is broken. This means that in the event that Breloom uses Focus Punch behind a Sub, and Mamoswine breaks it with Icicle Spear, the other hit(s) will disrupt Focus Punch. And no one uses Substitute Breloom anymore:

252 Atk Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Breloom: 336-396 (128.2 - 151.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO (2 hits; the first hits breaks the Sub; the second hit will most likely cripple Breloom up to a low HP point)

Taunt is a big help against Substitute users because if the Sub is broken before the Taunt ends, they won't be able to get one up again until Taunt wears off. And you can just Taunt them again before they get the Sub up again. Switching also eliminates the Substitute, screwing up the user's momentum.

 

[Juxapose]

I hope you understand that multi-hit moves Icicle Spear will continue attacking even after a Sub is broken. This means that in the event that Breloom uses Focus Punch behind a Sub, and Mamoswine breaks it with Icicle Spear, the other hit(s) will disrupt Focus Punch. And no one uses Substitute Breloom anymore:

252 Atk Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Breloom: 336-396 (128.2 - 151.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO (2 hits; the first hits breaks the Sub; the second hit will most likely cripple Breloom up to a low HP point)

Taunt is a big help against Substitute users because if the Sub is broken before the Taunt ends, they won't be able to get one up again until Taunt wears off. And you can just Taunt them again before they get the Sub up again. Switching also eliminates the Substitute, screwing up the user's momentum.

You do remember that Boomburst is normal type, so it can't hit Gengar at all, let alone 1HKO.

In response to the bold text, I was defeated by a subbing Breloom a few hours ago.

Lastly, I would remind that experienced players know when someone is going to taunt, so they would rather switch Pokemon to one that can take out the taunt user. Then take out their Subbing Pokemon and start Substitute as soon as the coast is clear.

Assuming that you are 100% on the Boomburst calculations, that means that I am required to have a choice banded Exploud during all my matches. Once again, wasting a spot in my 3v3 or 6v6 team on the small chance my opponent uses a Subbing Pokemon

You also forgot to put any calculations on a Subbing Heatran (Yes they exist, and yes I was defeated by one earlier.

 

[Dark Azelf]

Scrappy says hi. Genger gets wasted by Boomburst.

Also your argument is basically "if they have a sub and i have a counter they will just switch". If they switch you have done your job. Keep your check alive.

Breloom lol. Breloom is totally negated by alot in XY. Mostly grass poison types, which it absolutely cannot touch see: mega venu or amoongus etc. If not just get something that craps on its STAB moves like Aegislash.

Sub users still dont beat most of their counters even with sub up. Heatran/Gliscor still doesnt beat any water type with sub tbh for example. RestOChesto Rotom-W and CroCune are common for this reason incase they have Toxic so wall them indefinitely.

Also Roar, Whirlwind, Perish Song are all still viable.


Maybe your team is just really frail, slow and lacks synergy or something or are just playing it badly?

 

[dontstay96]

adamant or jolly mega pinsir? adamant or jolly d-dance feraligatr? timid or modest scarf porygon z? and why?

 

[RickyMeister]

Good sets for the three simis? X/Y moves only

 

[PlatinumDude]

adamant or jolly mega pinsir? adamant or jolly d-dance feraligatr? timid or modest scarf porygon z? and why?

Jolly Mega Pinsir and Feraligatr is preferred, as the former's Speed tier is rather good, while the latter will have enough Speed to outspeed most threats at +1 with a Jolly nature.

Modest/Timid Porygon-Z is all up to personal preference. If you want more power, use Modest; for the Speed, and to outspeed as many unboosted threats as possible, use Timid.

Good sets for the three simis? X/Y moves only

Simisage:
-Nasty Plot
-Energy Ball
-Focus Blast
-Hidden Power (Rock)
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb
Ability: Overgrow

Simisear:
-Nasty Plot
-Fire Blast
-Focus Blast
-Substitute
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Salac Berry
Ability: Gluttony

Simipour:
-Hydro Pump
-Ice Beam
-Grass Knot/Hidden Power (Grass)
-Focus Blast/Surf
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Choice Specs/Choice Scarf
Ability: Torrent

or
-Nasty Plot
-Hydro Pump
-Ice Beam
-Grass Knot/Hidden Power (Grass)/Substitute
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb/Salac Berry

You do remember that Boomburst is normal type, so it can't hit Gengar at all, let alone 1HKO.

In response to the bold text, I was defeated by a subbing Breloom a few hours ago.

Lastly, I would remind that experienced players know when someone is going to taunt, so they would rather switch Pokemon to one that can take out the taunt user. Then take out their Subbing Pokemon and start Substitute as soon as the coast is clear.

Assuming that you are 100% on the Boomburst calculations, that means that I am required to have a choice banded Exploud during all my matches. Once again, wasting a spot in my 3v3 or 6v6 team on the small chance my opponent uses a Subbing Pokemon
.

Heatran calc:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 12 SpD Heatran: 316-374 (97.8 - 115.7%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

Happy now?

Also echoing what Azelf said. You totally forgot that Exploud has Scrappy, which lets it hit Ghost Pokemon with Normal and Fighting moves. Roar/Whirlwind and Taunt users also deal with Substitutes by forcing their users out of battle. Skarmory and Mega Venusaur are known to use these moves.

Why do you say that devoting a slot for a Sub-busting Pokemon is a bad thing? They could be helpful. Giving us the team you're currently using would be great. Just saying, not every team is perfect. You're not expected to beat every threat with it. All that matters is the synergy between your team members and from what Azelf said, you seem to be lacking the synergy to deal with Sub users.

 

[Juxapose]

Why do you say that devoting a slot for a Sub-busting Pokemon is a bad thing? They could be helpful. Giving us the team you're currently using would be great. Just saying, not every team is perfect. You're not expected to beat every threat with it. All that matters is the synergy between your team members and from what Azelf said, you seem to be lacking the synergy to deal with Sub users.

The reason I believe that devoting a slot for dealing with substitute defies the very principle of Pokemon. Every trainer should use the Pokemon they like, and have an equal chance to defeat any trainer with enough knowledge and skill. To remove a Pokemon that you love for a Pokemon that you do not like for the sake of competing is not what Pokemon was about. I am not a fan of Exploud, and I refuse to train many commonly used competative Pokemon because they do not reflect who I am as a trainer.

This is my current team:

Arcanine (Yes, I know this is not a competative Pokemon, but I refuse to deny it's spot in my team for any reason. Arcanine is my favorite Pokemon of all time after all.)
Greninja
Togekiss
Tyranitar
Lucario
Scizor

 

[Zeffy]

You're asking for help in a competitive environment. If you don't like the help that you've been given, then that's kind of your fault. Some people have dedicated a lot of time in learning a lot of things to help them succeed in competitive Pokemon battling. Take that "I use my favourite non-competitive Pokemon in battle" attitude elsewhere because that's not how most competitive Pokemon players do things.

 

[Nah]

The reason I believe that devoting a slot for dealing with substitute defies the very principle of Pokemon. Every trainer should use the Pokemon they like, and have an equal chance to defeat any trainer with enough knowledge and skill. To remove a Pokemon that you love for a Pokemon that you do not like for the sake of competing is not what Pokemon was about. I am not a fan of Exploud, and I refuse to train many commonly used competative Pokemon because they do not reflect who I am as a trainer.

This is my current team:

Arcanine (Yes, I know this is not a competative Pokemon, but I refuse to deny it's spot in my team for any reason. Arcanine is my favorite Pokemon of all time after all.)
Greninja
Togekiss
Tyranitar
Lucario
Scizor

In addition to what Zeffy said, there's nothing wrong with using your favorites. However, if you are going to play that way, you have to realize that puts limitations on what you/your team can handle. It's not like any team can cover every single threat either. Your current team has issues handling Sub-stallers. You only have 2 options: 1) Alter your team so it can handle Sub users, or 2) accept the fact that Sub-users are something you can't handle with your team.

Competitive battling is half your team and half your knowledge and skill. You need both to consistently win. You can't just take any old ♥♥♥♥ team and win no matter how skilled you are, nor can you win with the "best team" if you don't know what you're doing.