Help Thread: Official Hack Checking Thread

[Road]

Interesting. As far as I know, Pokecheck was first introduced in the beginning of 2011, so that would be 5th gen. I stopped event collecting in February 2011, but I've only lightly heard about it over the years.

Also as far as I know, Pokecheck has since shut down so you can't see anything uploaded on the server anymore. So I'd assume that because it's shiny, someone was suspicious about the Tohoku Pikachu and checked it on Pokecheck. So yeah, I'd say probably legit.

Ah okay, that would make sense. I know it was around for 5th but I never used it so I only know stuff based on what many people told me and have seen.

Alrighty, so that takes me back to my original question: should I remove the Premiere Ribbon in PKHeX or leave it and explain that we believe it's legit?

 

[Haileo]

Ah okay, that would make sense. I know it was around for 5th but I never used it so I only know stuff based on what many people told me and have seen.

Alrighty, so that takes me back to my original question: should I remove the Premiere Ribbon in PKHeX or leave it and explain that we believe it's legit?

I'd leave it alone. I believe that touching events, much less editing events, decreases the value of it. I believe in trading it in the condition you obtained it. I guess if they ask about it, you can tell them it was Pokechecked.

 

[Spyro]

Editing it in any way, even if it's to make it legit, makes it a hack.
I didn't know Pokécheck Pokémon had Premier ribbons attached to it.. I'd be inclined to think that makes them hacked. :/
But this was also before my time so I think Keiran should check it out

 

[Keiran]

Yes, the premier ribbons were added to make it obvious that the Pokemon was downloaded as a clone and to prevent people from passing them off as their own. They are essentially edited/hacks.

 

[Road]

So I can't trade it. Very well. I'll keep it off my lists.

 

[Haileo]

So, this question might be too technical for anyone here to answer, but I'll post it here because it's public and hopefully someone knows.

I traded for a Shiny Tornadus that was caught in Black, so a 5th gen shiny. It gives an error in PKHeX. By normal clicking the error triangle, PKHeX comes back with "Legal!", but by right-clicking > Legality, it gives me this:

Spoiler:

The PID and Encryption Constant are the same, I double checked. Next step:
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Personality_value

Shininess in 5th gen is determined by a process of equations, so I thought to go backwards from the PID to see if the PID actually matches the math to make it shiny. Before I talk about that, I tested out: 1) Changing the PID on this Shiny Tornadus makes it valid and will not give any errors. 2) Changing the TID (ie. increasing the number by +1) makes it valid and will not give any errors.

I used the equations listed out on the Bulbapedia page, and here is my math:

Spoiler:

Bulbapedia says if the final result of this equation is less than 8, then it will be a shiny Pokemon. But the result I get is 0, which is technically less than 8. That's why PKHeX lists it as an error but says it's valid, because since technically 0 is less than 8, it is a valid shiny.

Tl;dr (And the question I want to ask): Is a 5th gen Shiny Pokemon valid and legit if its shininess value is 0? What about if its shininess value is 8? Bulbapedia says "less than 8," not "less than or equal to 8," so I don't think 8 would work. But what about 0?

 

[tabor62]

Spoiler:

So, this question might be too technical for anyone here to answer, but I'll post it here because it's public and hopefully someone knows.

I traded for a Shiny Tornadus that was caught in Black, so a 5th gen shiny. It gives an error in PKHeX. By normal clicking the error triangle, PKHeX comes back with "Legal!", but by right-clicking > Legality, it gives me this:

Spoiler:

The PID and Encryption Constant are the same, I double checked. Next step:
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Personality_value

Shininess in 5th gen is determined by a process of equations, so I thought to go backwards from the PID to see if the PID actually matches the math to make it shiny. Before I talk about that, I tested out: 1) Changing the PID on this Shiny Tornadus makes it valid and will not give any errors. 2) Changing the TID (ie. increasing the number by +1) makes it valid and will not give any errors.

I used the equations listed out on the Bulbapedia page, and here is my math:

Spoiler:

Bulbapedia says if the final result of this equation is less than 8, then it will be a shiny Pokemon. But the result I get is 0, which is technically less than 8. That's why PKHeX lists it as an error but says it's valid, because since technically 0 is less than 8, it is a valid shiny.

Tl;dr (And the question I want to ask): Is a 5th gen Shiny Pokemon valid and legit if its shininess value is 0? What about if its shininess value is 8? Bulbapedia says "less than 8," not "less than or equal to 8," so I don't think 8 would work. But what about 0?

I defintely know squat about the math, but I do have a question. The Tornadus doesn't have it's Hidden Ability (Defiant) does it? If I recall correctly you could only get it with its HA from Dream Radar which is impossible to get a shiny from. Just wanted to cover it in case you didn't.

 

[Haileo]

I defintely know squat about the math, but I do have a question. The Tornadus doesn't have it's Hidden Ability (Defiant) does it? If I recall correctly you could only get it with its HA from Dream Radar which is impossible to get a shiny from. Just wanted to cover it in case you didn't.

It shows the ability in the picture lol. It has Regenerator.

 

[tabor62]

It shows the ability in the picture lol. It has Regenerator.

That's the Therian Forme Ability. Normal or Hidden, it'll turn into Regenerator when you use the Reveal Glass on it.

 

[Spyro]

So I'm looking over my Rareball collection with PKHeX and some stuff comes back flagged, while Serebii's database says it's completely legit. So who's right in that case? Anyone knows? :( I know the Swablu is sketchy because since it was bred in Y, HA inheritance didn't work that way. But for the rest I'm at a loss.
- Dream Ball Starly: "Can't optain species in Ball" (Bred by me in Moon)
- Moon Ball Roselia: "Can't optain species in Ball" (Bred by someone else in Y)
- Moon Ball Swablu: "Relearn Moves missing: Egg Move" + "Can't obtain Hidden Ability with Ball" (Bred by someone else in Y)
- Friend Ball Bounsweet: "Relearn Moves missing: Egg Move" (Bred by me in Moon)
- Heavy Ball Barboach: "Can't optain species in Ball" (Bred by someone else in Y)
- Heavy Ball Snorlax: "Invalid Move" + "Relearn Moves missing: Egg Move" (Bred by me in Sun)

 

[Haileo]

So I'm looking over my Rareball collection with PKHeX and some stuff comes back flagged, while Serebii's database says it's completely legit. So who's right in that case? Anyone knows? :( I know the Swablu is sketchy because since it was bred in Y, HA inheritance didn't work that way. But for the rest I'm at a loss.
- Dream Ball Starly: "Can't optain species in Ball" (Bred by me in Moon)
- Moon Ball Roselia: "Can't optain species in Ball" (Bred by someone else in Y)
- Moon Ball Swablu: "Relearn Moves missing: Egg Move" + "Can't obtain Hidden Ability with Ball" (Bred by someone else in Y)
- Friend Ball Bounsweet: "Relearn Moves missing: Egg Move" (Bred by me in Moon)
- Heavy Ball Barboach: "Can't optain species in Ball" (Bred by someone else in Y)
- Heavy Ball Snorlax: "Invalid Move" + "Relearn Moves missing: Egg Move" (Bred by me in Sun)

According to a Poke Ball combination list my friend did:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yGGbjd3uXndaCja25LegC-IHLqdYlws8vXb4sVml-sA/edit#gid=0

Most of those are valid combinations. The Bounsweet and Snorlax look weird, and possibly the Swablu too. From what I know, if an egg move is bred onto a Pokemon, the egg move should be in the relearn move list starting from 6th gen. Invalid Move means that it has a move it can't normally learn (ie. event Pokemon), but it's not in its relearn movelist either.

 

[Spyro]

According to a Poke Ball combination list my friend did:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yGGbjd3uXndaCja25LegC-IHLqdYlws8vXb4sVml-sA/edit#gid=0

Most of those are valid combinations. The Bounsweet and Snorlax look weird, and possibly the Swablu too. From what I know, if an egg move is bred onto a Pokemon, the egg move should be in the relearn move list starting from 6th gen. Invalid Move means that it has a move it can't normally learn (ie. event Pokemon), but it's not in its relearn movelist either.

Omg thank you for this list, its much clearer than Serebii's!! Is this public? May I link it in my Hack Checking guide?
For the legal ones, I would assume it's a PKHeX bug, then?
Swablu is definitely Illegal because of the game of origin, but if it was bred in Gen 7 there wouldn't be anything wrong with it. I think. The Move error is really weird, I bred other Swablu from it so I'll check them as well.
Both Snorlax and Bounsweet were Pok?mon I bred from stuff I recieved from Wonder Trade, so I'll just release them and re-breed them from scratch.

 

[Haileo]

Omg thank you for this list, its much clearer than Serebii's!! Is this public? May I link it in my Hack Checking guide?
For the legal ones, I would assume it's a PKHeX bug, then?
Swablu is definitely Illegal because of the game of origin, but if it was bred in Gen 7 there wouldn't be anything wrong with it. I think. The Move error is really weird, I bred other Swablu from it so I'll check them as well.
Both Snorlax and Bounsweet were Pok?mon I bred from stuff I recieved from Wonder Trade, so I'll just release them and re-breed them from scratch.

Yeah, I think it's public lol. Go ahead :)

 

[Altairis]

So I'm looking over my Rareball collection with PKHeX and some stuff comes back flagged, while Serebii's database says it's completely legit. So who's right in that case? Anyone knows? :( I know the Swablu is sketchy because since it was bred in Y, HA inheritance didn't work that way. But for the rest I'm at a loss.
- Dream Ball Starly: "Can't optain species in Ball" (Bred by me in Moon)
- Moon Ball Roselia: "Can't optain species in Ball" (Bred by someone else in Y)
- Moon Ball Swablu: "Relearn Moves missing: Egg Move" + "Can't obtain Hidden Ability with Ball" (Bred by someone else in Y)
- Friend Ball Bounsweet: "Relearn Moves missing: Egg Move" (Bred by me in Moon)
- Heavy Ball Barboach: "Can't optain species in Ball" (Bred by someone else in Y)
- Heavy Ball Snorlax: "Invalid Move" + "Relearn Moves missing: Egg Move" (Bred by me in Sun)

I don't think that PKHeX is completely updated because it says that some of my Apricorn HA Pokemon are not legit when it is definitely possible to get those Pokemon in SM.

Honestly? I wouldn't become too attached to whether or not the specific Pokemon is legit if you're just going to use it for breeding anyway... just look up whether or not it can be caught in the ball (and all of these can) and whether it exists with the HA (they can) and that would mean they're legit. Unless you're using them for battling or trading them like they are then I'm not sure why it matters? I may be of the minority on this =/

 

[destinedjagold]

Is PKHex a hack-checker lately? I just find it funny that a hacking/genning tool is used as a way to check a legitimacy of a 'mon. :V

In any case, imo it's not a perfect tool for checking legality and legitimacy of a Pok?mon.

 

[Haileo]

Is PKHex a hack-checker lately? I just find it funny that a hacking/genning tool is used as a way to check a legitimacy of a 'mon. :V

In any case, imo it's not a perfect tool for checking legality and legitimacy of a Pok?mon.

Well, what you said is pretty much the basis of legitimacy checking in the first place. I took an Ethical Hacking course last semester, and what I learned is "Hackers use the same tools no matter what side you use them for, the difference is the morality you take. If you use the tools for a good cause, you are an ethical hacker, but if you use the tools for a bad cause, you are a criminal."

This is pretty much the same thing. Legitimacy checks and hacking use the same tools (PKHeX), and even in 4th gen we used the same tools, the difference is what you do with these tools. PKHeX has been updating a lot in the last few months with legality edge cases, so it's become more of a tool for us to see what's right and what's wrong in a Pokemon, as well as how it would happen and how to fix it.

 

[Spyro]

PKHeX is being more and more accurate, and finds hack we could never find otherwise due to how the game and Pok? Bank literally are the worst hack checkers ever made. People rely on them but their only check is like, HA on Pok?mon from Gen 4 and before. That's it. With all the info we can't see in game, everyone just goes "i guess its legit" and trade hacks away unknowingly. Like Haileo said, what wrong am I doing if I use the hackers very tool to spot and release hacks? The developer added this to his program because people use blatant hacks in battle and trading, which is not what he wanted in the first place.
Also Altaris, I'm indeed concerned because I got some of these from traders here, and I wanted to trade them myself.

 

[MechaMoth]

PKHeX is being more and more accurate, and finds hack we could never find otherwise due to how the game and Pok? Bank literally are the worst hack checkers ever made. People rely on them but their only check is like, HA on Pok?mon from Gen 4 and before. That's it. With all the info we can't see in game, everyone just goes "i guess its legit" and trade hacks away unknowingly. Like Haileo said, what wrong am I doing if I use the hackers very tool to spot and release hacks? The developer added this to his program because people use blatant hacks in battle and trading, which is not what he wanted in the first place.

I know I was guilty of this for awhile before I got PKHeX. Now that I use it, it greatly reduces the amount of hacks or questionable pokemon I receive and hopefully trade. Now that it's being updated more, the only thing I've run into is Cute Charm glitch shinies being flagged, which is a known problem that last I read they were working on. (Cute Charm glitch gives some weird numbers with PID and SID and causes a flag even though they're legit).

Also Altaris, I'm indeed concerned because I got some of these from traders here, and I wanted to trade them myself.

It's the debate over what's legal versus what's legit. I frankly don't want offspring of hacked/modified parents. It just doesn't seem too honest to me.

 

[Spyro]

I know I was guilty of this for awhile before I got PKHeX. Now that I use it, it greatly reduces the amount of hacks or questionable pokemon I receive and hopefully trade. Now that it's being updated more, the only thing I've run into is Cute Charm glitch shinies being flagged, which is a known problem that last I read they were working on. (Cute Charm glitch gives some weird numbers with PID and SID and causes a flag even though they're legit).

I mean, it wouldn't be necessary if all the info would be available in game. But what you can actually check in game is a snipet of everything that's stored in the Pok?mon's data. Seems like a waste to me.

 

[Road]

"You can never REALLY tell if something is a hack" has literally been said since the dawn of Pokemon. Of course we can't, and to some that warrants not even trying. For the rest of us, who have been in Pokemon for so long and KNOW things can be gotten legitly, it encourages us even more to check for hacks. There are plenty of people who don't care, so someone has to do it.

Anyway, real question. I'm getting "Can't have ball for encounter type" errors on some Pokemon and I'm a bit confused. One of them I'm getting this on is a Nidoqueen in a Safari Ball, but it's from FR and Lv. 31, which matches up for the info for Nidorina in the game (then was just evolved with Moon Stone). Getting the same error for a Magnemite from SS, Lv. 16 which matches the level for Route 38/39 and is in a Luxury Ball which I'm pretty sure you can buy in those games. (Magnemite also has "Encounter type PID Mismatch" which I heard happens on 4th Gen Shinies, but is it ALL 4th Gen Shinies? Soaps told me to ignore it but I wanted to check.)

I have other questions but will save those for later as I keep checking. @w@