PokéCommunity Daily: Pokémon Home(less): a truly baffling decision

[Sheep]

Just want to leave this link for people who may be curious on opinions from the other side though: https://www.reddit.com/r/PokemonSwo...yec/in_defense_of_gamefreaks_limited_pokedex/

I do and have respected both sides since this was revealed, though it still doesn't change my disappointment and their (very poor) timing with announcing this.

 

[EmTheGhost]

I don't even transfer Pokemon, like, ever, but my heart breaks for all the fans who will be affected by this. :/

 

[_pheebee]

I have no complaints with this.

800/900+ models is a large amount, and it's getting to the point of do we need almost 1000 pokémon in a game.
I feel that this is a wise move, but also would be wise to maybe have the Galar Regional Pokémon in the main release of the game.
And maybe updates here and there for extra pokémon as of when they've updated them.

 

[Rivvon]

I have no complaints with this.

800/900+ models is a large amount, and it's getting to the point of do we need almost 1000 pokémon in a game.
I feel that this is a wise move, but also would be wise to maybe have the Galar Regional Pokémon in the main release of the game.
And maybe updates here and there for extra pokémon as of when they've updated them.

People who have datamined the 3DS games can see that the Pokémon 3D models are actually all incredibly high-quality and are actually downsized to accommodate for the limitations of the system. Every single old Pokémon we've seen in Sword and Shield are using the exact same model that they were in the 3DS games, but downsized less. Some may need minor texture touch-ups, but that's not nearly as intensive of a task that it warrants literally phasing out a good chunk of older Pokémon. Game Freak isn't the best at programming or consolidating, but they definitely did make their Pokémon models "future-proof" enough that there really is no benefit to this decision, especially if they are intending to treat all future releases like this.


Not even just for "Pokémon I have an attachment to," but just for general use within the game. Made a competitive team for Battle Tower? Better hope they're in the Galar Dex or you'll have to create and train an all-new team from scratch. Will Galar feature QOL improvements for egg-hatching? Well that Pokémon with the Dream Ball that you were going to shiny breed for better be in the Galar Dex or you'll be stuck with it in gen 7 with a potentially worse breeding cycle. Wanted to bring your starter from your very first game into Galar and use them in Dynamax battles and carry them around in your Poké Ball Plus? I hope for your sake they're available in the region or you're out of luck. Transferring Pokémon gave players lot of things to do in the post-game, which is especially crucial since Game Freak seems very, very unwilling to give players a substantial post-game to begin with. This kind of limitation only hurts the longevity of Sword and Shield, and for a large amount of people, game longevity is a major part of the enjoyment that comes from a Pokémon title.

 

[Mister Coffee]

Alright, since nobody else is going to ask the question that truly matters, I'll ask it.

After learning this news, is anybody here not going to buy this game?

If you buy this game despite hating these new features, then why should Gamefreak change any of these decisions, when you're going to give them your money anyways?

 

[bobandbill]

I sure am liking the discussion that came of the article. :B Although I guess it may have happened anyway...

This is exactly why I expect either a backpedal or an update insinuating that they just meant not yet. You can't, and have never been able to transfer backwards, we know that, they know that, we've always known that, it wouldn't make sense to be able to, so why would they even allow for the ability to transfer from Bank to Home if it wouldn't eventually allow all your mons? Because once you do, you can't get them back, and they're trapped in limbo if that's the case.

Given the lack of immediate backpedal or update, it suggests that they truly hadn't meant 'not yet'. The following conversation made it clear too - it wasn't just the translator, but the conversation that followed on the topic (e.g. chat about how not even all LGPE pokes can go to SwSh, just those that are in the Galar dex that can).

But "eventually" doesn't help this situation. "Eventually" could mean that we get gen 4 remakes next where all gen 4 Pokémon are allowed, but not all other Pokémon. Or it could mean we get a third version which allows a few extra Pokémon but some are still left out. There's absolutely going to be an "eventually" for every Pokémon, but it's not guaranteed it will be for all of them in one game, and that's the core issue. Every game should accommodate for every Pokémon, even if only through transfer, and while you believe they will remedy this (and I do hope you're right) the way it was worded sounded like that wasn't going to be the case, not only for Sword and Shield but for all games moving forward.

A good point here too - they have said it's moving forward and not just SwSh here.

I'll start by saying that I could expect a decision like this one in a future generation, but the elephant in the room here is that the reason why I'd have expected it in the first place isn't here. Game Freak are not having to make new detailed models for each Pokémon that will need lots of work. Everything in the graphics department we've seen so far makes me think this is a polished 3DS game with a better UI slapped on top of it, and the Pokémon models are no exception.

I'm not going to be personally involved with this as I haven't transferred Pokémon cross-generationally since Gen 3 to DP and generally only ever use the Pokémon in a given game, but this is still disappointing for the future of the franchise. Who's assuring us they will rotate between the available Pokémon each generation or each new game? So far they've shown an awful lot of Gen I Pokémon in SwSh which goes against the rotation hypothesis, as this is coming right after a Gen I only game and two generations full of Gen I Pokémon and references. I kinda expect that they'll manage to rotate between the other generations and have the full set of Gen I Pokémon in each new game, which would be the worst thing they could do short of simply rebooting the franchise from the original 151 mons. This wouldn't even be justifiable with nostalgia as in a 23-year-old franchise people have started with different games and have nostalgia for different generations (but even then, I'd not want to have the same Pokémon available every single game), yet that's what they've been doing for years.

It's a shame that with Game Freak the post-launch support is among the worst of any gaming company out there. Their third version model would naturally have evolved into full-on expansions with new areas and story arcs, yet there's been nothing but bug fixes and third versions that have evolved... into a third version pair of all things. I really expect that SwSh will be locked with their regional dex forever, and for one of the biggest game franchises in history, to have this ridiculous lack of consideration towards the fans is as disappointing as it could get. I'd have justified this decision had SwSh shown more technical effort instead of looking like a polished 3DS game... but this is unjustifiable, this is not a small indie studio but the biggest second-party Nintendo franchise.

Also a good point. They cite game balance issues but that's not the case, and while Wild Area looks nice, there's still stuff lacking. I don't see much in the way of new animations - certainly not in battles, for instance.

I'm slightly disappointed by this news, but it's not the end of the world for me. I can kind of understand it as well considering how many Pokemon there are now. I wonder if all the complaints will be enough for them to fix this, even if they do so with a patch? It worked for Sonic's design in the new movie lol. xD

It doesn't become understandable when you consider all the models exist already, including animations for each. It's as simple as putting them into the game, as far as we know. Battle balance alone doesn't explain this decision.

This wasn't something I was hoping for, but I think it's a welcome change and something I hope continues in future games. Having a different selection of pokemon in each game makes each one unique, with it's own meta. Not to mention weeding out trash-tier mons like qwilfish and sunflora.
All the backlash seems, in a word, childish. After the wild area gave fans exactly what they were hoping for, to be unsatisfied with 500 returning pokemon is comically immature. It's not like catching them all was very glamorous in the first place. Can you really call it catching them all when you're just transferring mons you've already caught?

Every game had a different selection of Pokemon. Nothing new there. What's different is what can (or can't) be sent afterwards. And even then games had their own meta - VGC had a Kalos only, Alolan only dex, etc rules imposed in the first year or two, even after the effect of Bank.

The complaints screaming at Masuda, with abuse, etc are childish, but besides that they're very valid imo. But well, I refer the article for my stance on why. It's not limited to catching them all via transferring, at any rate.

Just want to leave this link for people who may be curious on opinions from the other side though: https://www.reddit.com/r/PokemonSwo...yec/in_defense_of_gamefreaks_limited_pokedex/

I do and have respected both sides since this was revealed, though it still doesn't change my disappointment and their (very poor) timing with announcing this.

Mentioned to you already, but I disagree with that because we know the models are high poly and the same between LGPE and the 3DS titles.

 

[Gym Master]

This wasn't something I was hoping for, but I think it's a welcome change and something I hope continues in future games. Having a different selection of pokemon in each game makes each one unique, with it's own meta. Not to mention weeding out trash-tier mons like qwilfish and sunflora.
All the backlash seems, in a word, childish. After the wild area gave fans exactly what they were hoping for, to be unsatisfied with 500 returning pokemon is comically immature. It's not like catching them all was very glamorous in the first place. Can you really call it catching them all when you're just transferring mons you've already caught?

Even though I'm disappointed, I really liked your approach in the first paragraph and was about to hit that thumbs-up…

But then the second paragraph labels other fans of this thing we like together as "childish" and "comically immature" for having a different perspective, and I just couldn't do it.

Love that first paragraph, though. It didn't change my experience, but it did make me understand why someone would think this is not a big deal. And why Game Freak would want to use this console jump as a feasible opportunity to do it. Thank you for that.

Alright, since nobody else is going to ask the question that truly matters, I'll ask it.

After learning this news, is anybody here not going to buy this game?

If you buy this game despite hating these new features, then why should Gamefreak change any of these decisions, when you're going to give them your money anyways?

You're absolutely right, and I've gone from near-certainty that I was buying a Switch primarily for this game to now being uncertain. I've been curious about Switch since launch, but even Super Mario Odyssey and Breath of the Wild didn't convince me to spend money and commit my time to playing video games.

So much about Gen 8 is still tempting, but this announcement is a PR disaster. They need to better articulate what the vision is, rather than the current impression they've made which is coming across like:

After convincing you to pay for Bank for two generations, we're going to try to convince you to pay for Home, too, but you're not guaranteed to bring your favorite or most personal mons over. After two decades of handheld, you get a National Dex and Diploma for every other game except the swan song. We're just hard shoving to the future, as we decide it, with no regard for your personal past with this series. But at the same time, 'Nostalgia, nostalgia!' Pay for Bank! Pay for Home! Carry our device (and your "beloved Pokémon") on your body all day, every day. Literally put our newest device in bed with you and dream about your dear virtual pets. …But don't be upset when they're not included in the latest game. Just wait patiently until someday when it might happen. Like AZ's Floette. Just wait and see.

And if that frustrates someone who's invested time and money in this franchise and its world, and all prior and even current "love your Pokémon" marketing, we're "childish"? I strongly disagree. Besides being very bad for a significant number of fans' personal experiences, this is just not how branding works. They really need to find a positive way to clearly articulate this vision, soon. From a purely business/marketing perspective, this is a "comically immature" gaffe from one of the most powerful IPs on earth. The way this was presented was shockingly amateur to the point of astonishing disbelief.

After a lot of skepticism, there was near-universal excitement and anticipation after February's announcement trailer. That had just amped way up after the Direct. People were excited with the E3 morning trailer. Everyone was talking about Nessa, and all of it was good. This extremely and bewilderingly clumsy announcement was handled so poorly and unprofessionally that it instantly changed the conversation. It torpedoed the momentum and if smart effort is not made, yes, some fans like myself may be so turned off that it affects whether we spend money or not.

Personally, I'm still on the fence in part because it was handled so carelessly that I think there must actually be more to their vision than they communicated. They need to tell us more about Home, and more about this new approach. They need to patch USUM with a National Dex, even if they just recycle all the text entries. Every Pokémon is coded and available already anyway; I don't understand why this hasn't already happened. It would make people feel better. They need to take these steps as soon as possible.

I'm not holding my breath, though, especially for that last one.

EDIT:

https://www.gamesradar.com/pokemon-home-transfer-policy-game-freak-sword-shield-national-dex/

This is the thing. If USUM was the last time we could catch 'em all in one game, then USUM's National Dex is arguably the most important. If the 3DS marked the end of not only the handheld era, but the "Catch 'em all!" era, then updating the Pokédex 3D Pro becomes imperative.

With all they did to promote the 20th Anniversary in Gen 7, all the event mons they released, all the shinies they made available, all the simpler mechanics for hunting and breeding…

If that had been presented as a celebration of the past and the last National Dex, I think it could work. The groundwork was actually even there, but no announcement was made. It's clumsy, but forgivable.

Ending that era with no National Dex in Gen 7 and the Pokédex 3D Pro unfinished just leaves a tarnish on the entire handheld history; which again, is the entire history of the core games.

The right way to round this corner was so clear. They even kind of did it. The ingredients were all there: 20th Anniversary monthly Mythicals, Year of Legendaries, easier Shiny Charm, smoother breeding and stat-editing, etc, etc. In hindsight, Gen 7 actually looks like the right approach to "Catch 'em ALL now, 'cause we're about to switch things up." It really is just hard to understand how this was handled so badly. Don't they pay someone for market strategy and communications?

EDIT 2:

https://www.usgamer.net/articles/pokemon-sword-and-shield-interview

New insights from Masuda and Ohmori make it even more nonsensical that USUM's National Dex was not presented as a Very Big Deal. It is incomprehensible and unforgivable that, instead, it's nonexistent. At some point Bank will almost certainly be completely replaced with Home, creating Gen 7 as the only game (including LGPE) to omit the National Dex, thus having a majority of Pokémon with no Dex entry for the only Gen to contain ALL of the Pokémon of the handheld era.

This is truly hard to believe. It would seem to take a great deal of effort to be this wrong-headed.

 

[KorinY]

Ok, I'm posting here because I just need to put my feelings out somewhere and most people (my friends whom are all excited to play the new games on the switch after not playing it since gen IV) don't understand how disappointing this is.

Yes, this change doesn't affect my gameplay. I never transfered my Mon from old games so I don't have that kind of attachment. I'm usually satisfied with the Regional dex, like in SM, which was the first time I actually completed the dex. And I don't play competitively either. So, even though in some generations I got upset when I couldn't find one of my favorites (like Quagsire in gen VII), I never really bothered to transfer one. But I never really bothered because I knew Quagsire was coded in the game, available for me or anyone, it made the Pokémon world feel REAL, a shared ecosystem where a common Sinnoh Bidoof would become a rare pokémon in Alola. Not having every single pokémon CODED into the game just feels WRONG, it makes the world feel less immersive.

And don't ask me to sympathize with Game Freak and those developers. They are half-assing those games for 6 years now. Yes, half-assing. Not in a single one of those games they listened to what the fans wanted. They tied themselves to that tight schedule where they have to release a game almost every years and a new Gen every 3 years and never took the time to put a big effort into those games. Nintendo did it with BOTW, they just did it with Animal Crossing and they are doing it again with Metroid, why can't Game Freak do the same? They are sacrificing what? 300? 400 pokémon? But keeping the same models and animations and not even letting you ride your mons or having them following you around? Ok, we still don't know everything about the game, but I'm not expecting a story, extra features and a post-game any better than what we got last 2 generations.

And it all comes to the money part. As I said, this change doesn't impact me. But I feel disappointed with the franchise, sad for the fans who are going to be impacted and angry with Game Freak. I really want to play those games, but I don't wanna buy them and I don't want to support them. And now here I am, actually considering not buy a Pokémon game after 15 years supporting it. It's sad because I doubt that it is going to be meaningful, Sword and Shield are just going to sell like nothing ever happened.

Honestly, a complete reboot would have been better.

 

[Mr. X]

Honestly, I find the 'It's far to much work to do!' excuse to be hollow af, when considering the future of the series.

They haven't announced it yet, but looking at their launch history a 4th gen remake is likely to be the next thing on the list. Another game that is going to require extensive modeling work.

If they were forward thinking, they'd do the work now instead of later - And at any rate, what exactly would happen for cross-trading between the 4th gen remakes and SS? They're going to be apart of the same generation of games here, so will they also be restricting trade between SS/4th Gen RMs? If they're not going to have the 4th gen models in, it'd have to be.

Or are we finally at the point where they're going to stop doing the remakes, because they now take more effort than they're worth?

 

[Sugar-Fable]

While it won't stop me from enjoying the game, I'm HIGHLY disappointed they would make a decision like this... I mean what's the point of encouraging you to train your favorites if you can't even use the ones you got attached to anymore? If they're gonna use competitive battling as an excuse, just ban the Pokemon not in the Galar dex from being used in it... I fell in love with Yamper, but if this continues into games down the line, I may not get to use him again for years! That doesn't really encourage me. I'm still optimistic in Sword and Shield in general but I do hope they consider adding them in patches.

 

[Candy]

I honestly don't get the decision. The models are there, and it shouldn't be that hard to code a new movepool. But no, reducing my hard work of maintaining a living dex since gen 4 to nil? Heck, I was disappointed that there's no national dex on Gen 7, but y'know dex entries of Pokemon from whatever games you have linked to your Pokemon Bank account are available to read on Pokemon Bank so it's whatever.

But wow, this kind of dropped my incentive to get the games on release now. Like, I can see the Milotic model casually chilling in the waters during the trailer, so I can bring my old Milotic over, but doing that basically just means I'm potentially locking her in one generation forever without the ability to transfer her to the next generations. I don't want that. No one wants that. We have diplomas for Pokemon brought over from the original Hoenn in ORAS. Why are we getting gimped for doing the same now?

Look, I understand the decision to like, cut down the Pokedex significantly, but then don't advertise Pokemon Home then giving us false hope that we could definitely transfer our old Pokemon. You guys could've just made USUM the last games you can have every single Pokemon in one save file, then make SwSh going forward locked to themselves, and every subsequent game afterwards. I'd rather have this for future games than whatever that wishy washy transferring system is. Sure it's disappointing, but if they really want to cut the amount of Pokemon, don't give us that false hope. Period.

 

[Mikachu]

I personally dont mind this, given the lack of national dex last gen I was expecting it this gen. Gives me all the more of a reason to use new Pokemon. And its not like a lot of fan favorites won't be in the game 152 of the revealed 170 (maybe 171) are older gen pokemon. Besides that, looking back at in the "gotta catch em all" was the Western Market's propaganda to better sell the series.

 

[Adam Levine]

I think this decision was made for us to fully enjoy Galar for a while before allowing us to import the non-Galar-native Pokémon. It might end up like Gen VII, when all Pokémon outside of Alola were completely barred in the games until Pokémon Bank could support them.

I just hope they'll allow us to import all the other Pokémon eventually. It doesn't have to be at release. The National Dex would be nice, too.

 

[bobandbill]

I think this decision was made for us to fully enjoy Galar for a while before allowing us to import the non-Galar-native Pokémon. It might end up like Gen VII, when all Pokémon outside of Alola were completely barred in the games until Pokémon Bank could support them.

I just hope they'll allow us to import all the other Pokémon eventually. It doesn't have to be at release. The National Dex would be nice, too.

No, they've been pretty clear you can't put non-Galar Dex Pokemon into the game. They could change their plans, but as it stands, it won't happen.

Besides, it will be like other games in a sense in that Home releases early 2020, ergo after SwSh are released (mid November).

 

[Kieran]

Have they forgotten how disappointed people were when they can't move their Pokemon from RGBY/GSC to the 3rd generation?
Seriously...
I am so disappointed when I saw this news. I have my Pokemon transferred all the way up till now from RSE and FRLG. It's stupid they're putting a cut to it.

 

[Outlander]

"Some further details about Pokémon Sword & Shield were revealed in Famitsu. Within the interview with Masuda and Ohmori, it was confirmed that there is currently no decision to bring the existing Pokémon that can't be in Sword & Shield back into the game using patches, but those that don't will still have an active role in Pokémon HOME. It also stated that Mega Evolutions and Z-Moves will not appear in Sword & Shield" - from Serebii this morning.

I'm not happy. I've always been someone that is really attached to all their mons and even though I know on an intellectual level that this isn't exactly the same as what happened when Ruby & Saphire were released and we literally lost everything, but it still kinda feels like that. I think all the decisions they've been making lately in the name of game balance are short sighted and going to alienate a large portion of their core audience in the same exact way. There was a reason they course corrected in 4th gen, and allowed us to import ALL of our Pokemon friends from previous games again from that point on (until now) and I think it's going to blow up in their face if they don't do something about this fast.

 

[Candy]

After thinking about it for a bit, makes sense that they would have to cut the number of Pokemon moving forward, and of course they would have to do it starting with Pokemon Sw/Sh since it's a jump to a new console. What's a better time to do it than now?

But I'm just going to say that if they had announce it in reverse, there wouldn't be as much backlash.

The fact that they announced that Pokemon HOME will accommodate every Pokemon before this decision is already implying that you can transfer everyone over to SwSh. Then people learned that they can't. And of course the backlash becomes really, REALLY severe as a result.

If they had announced the fact that not all Pokemon will be in the games moving forward before Pokemon HOME's reveal, as well as their reasonings for the decision, people would've been more understanding, especially when no transfer service had been announced at the time. Then they can drop Pokemon HOME and give us a full look at what the service would entail, including transferring to Sw/Sh. They should've set up the expectation of a limited Pokedex with zero transfer then bring in the Pokemon HOME reveal and actual feature showcase outside of just another nextgen Pokemon Box.

At least that would've been much less of a PR disaster than this.

 

[lilaë21]

Alright, since nobody else is going to ask the question that truly matters, I'll ask it.

After learning this news, is anybody here not going to buy this game?

If you buy this game despite hating these new features, then why should Gamefreak change any of these decisions, when you're going to give them your money anyways?

I won't - actually I wasn't planning to get one at or near launch anyway: I never buy games at more than 50€ (and I also rarely even buy day one or preorder; the last time I actually bought a Pokémon game day one was Diamond back in 2007) and besides that, there were at least four or five games in the recent Nintendo Direct alone that come out this year which, as of today, I'm more interested in than in SwSh, especially given all of these decisions by GF. I really was so hyped at the beginning despite having not been impressed by the latest titles, but sadly as I'm not seeing much change on the things I didn't like from the last few generations this is drifting lower and lower into my priority list.

 

[CF1994]

Game Freak really screwed up, big time!

They just keep making excuse after excuse over mobile gaming. If anything, their laziness and incompetence are what's exacerbating the problem that would have otherwise not existed.

I'm sure animating Double Kick was worth sacrificing our OG meme Starter; Mudkip or anyone else's favorite Pokémon out there that is not guaranteed to make the final cut.

What really ticks me off in all this is the fact that we're now on the Switch, a big console that's not only already expensive enough as it is, but is riddled with pricey online paywalls. You could potentially be spending a week's worth of lunches and even dinners just to ensure you can transfer your favorite Pokémon, only to find out they're not welcomed into the game because according to Masuda; hiring extra animators is too much hassle despite owning the most highly profitable franchise that overshadows even Disney!

 

[UnownJ]

I don't think I'm going to get it. I'd have to buy a switch and I hate what nintendo is today. Is this gamefreak finally admitting that they made too many pokemon? It's been a lot about quantity over quality over the many recent generations. With having so many different pokemon you can see how little effort they made towards balancing because that would require work on their part that they aren't willing to make so they just cut them off altogether. I really really don't want to get a switch lol