Political Apathy

[Her]

In this day and age, is political apathy really something a person can afford to have? Is said apathy a strong symbol of their class/status in life?

 

[esperance]

I think the current US election should be enough proof that a sense of political apathy will only lead to an unfavorable outcome, as if the US political environment during the Obama presidency wasn't bad enough.

 

[Arylett Charnoa]

I don't think it's such a bad thing to simply want to exist without all of these complicated and hate-flinging debates surrounding you. Not everyone has to get involved in politics. It's a right, not an obligation. Those who care fiercely can involve themselves all they like. The rest of us just want to live our lives, fretting about things that are more closer to home.

And yes, one can argue that these politics affect the whole country. But honestly, I doubt they'll do anything that will affect me on a personal level. Things will probably continue to be the same (again, from my perspective), improving slightly, or getting slightly worse. But not to the point where I actually notice. I myself can afford to have it, I know that. Besides that, I'm not knowledgeable enough or the right person to be making such decisions anyway. I just want to live my life in peace. So I wish good luck to those who are fighting that fight! It just isn't mine.

Just a little something from the other side, as I know this thread will probably attract the politically passionate. People like me who don't care usually don't post in this sort of thing.

 

[Neil Peart]

And yes, one can argue that these politics affect the whole country. But honestly, I doubt they'll do anything that will affect me on a personal level. Things will probably continue to be the same (again, from my perspective), improving slightly, or getting slightly worse. But not to the point where I actually notice.

To clarify, are you saying that policies carried out by politics will never affect you at all?

 

[Arylett Charnoa]

To clarify, are you saying that policies carried out by politics will never affect you at all?

Emotionally, no. That's what I meant by a personal level.

Whatever they're doing, they can keep on doing it. I'm fine with it, because it's mostly just these small tweaks. I'm sure they affect me, but I don't notice anything excessively negative in my day-to-day life, so I'm okay with it. I'll still continue to exist as I do unless they start to implement more extreme policies. And by extreme, I mean having a significant impact on my life. I merely meant that I just don't really notice the impact.

 

[esperance]

I don't think it's such a bad thing to simply want to exist without all of these complicated and hate-flinging debates surrounding you. Not everyone has to get involved in politics. It's a right, not an obligation. Those who care fiercely can involve themselves all they like. The rest of us just want to live our lives, fretting about things that are more closer to home.

And yes, one can argue that these politics affect the whole country. But honestly, I doubt they'll do anything that will affect me on a personal level. Things will probably continue to be the same (again, from my perspective), improving slightly, or getting slightly worse. But not to the point where I actually notice. I myself can afford to have it, I know that. Besides that, I'm not knowledgeable enough or the right person to be making such decisions anyway. I just want to live my life in peace. So I wish good luck to those who are fighting that fight! It just isn't mine.

Just a little something from the other side, as I know this thread will probably attract the politically passionate. People like me who don't care usually don't post in this sort of thing.

Interesting you should feel this way, Arylett. But I wonder, have you heard the theory that it was a growing sense of apathy among the Roman populace that has been proposed as a factor for the fall of Western Rome (apart form the obvious sacking by Germanic invaders)?

A professor of mine brought this up in a recent lecture that I attended and I thought it was rather interesting. If civic apathy was enough to bring down one of the greatest empires in history, who's to say it couldn't easily bring down another country today?

 

[Kanzler]

Interesting you should feel this way, Arylett. But I wonder, have you heard the theory that it was a growing sense of apathy among the Roman populace that has been proposed as a factor for the fall of Western Rome (apart form the obvious sacking by Germanic invaders)?

A professor of mine brought this up in a recent lecture that I attended and I thought it was rather interesting. If civic apathy was enough to bring down one of the greatest empires in history, who's to say it couldn't easily bring down another country today?

I think you'd have to flesh out the argument concerning the Fall of Rome. Rome wasn't a democracy so I don't know if civic apathy in Rome is something comparable to civic apathy in a Western democracy.

 

[esperance]

I think you'd have to flesh out the argument concerning the Fall of Rome. Rome wasn't a democracy so I don't know if civic apathy in Rome is something comparable to civic apathy in a Western democracy.

You're right of course, that was mostly just me saying the first thing that came to mind honestly. It's easy for me to imagine parallels between growing apathy throughout the system in Rome without actually being able to prove it, especially in regards to a Western democracy.

 

[gimmepie]

Political apathy is a curse and it is exacerbated in my country where voting is mandatory.

That probably seems like a weird sentence so let me explain. Uninformed voters who don't care are much more likely to just fling a vote at whoever the (very biased) media points them too. Uninformed voters are how we end up with people who suck at their job running the country.

It bothers me that people don't want to try and do what's best for their country. I don't expect everyone to study in-depth. Just look at the policies of people and vote for what represents the best future for you instead of voting for who Murdoch tells you too.

In countries with non-mandatory voting it creates a different issue, the uneducated and apathetic don't vote at all which leaves only the politically invested upper class making the majority of votes which leads to a very skewed system.

I guess it doesn't matter what kind of system you have, apathy towards politics causes problems - mostly the same problems - in all democratic nations. Some people say "why should I care?" You should care because whether you notice it or not, politics effects everyone in your country and by the time some bad policy bites you in the ass it'll be too late to start caring.

 

[Neil Peart]

Emotionally, no. That's what I meant by a personal level.

Whatever they're doing, they can keep on doing it. I'm fine with it, because it's mostly just these small tweaks. I'm sure they affect me, but I don't notice anything excessively negative in my day-to-day life, so I'm okay with it. I'll still continue to exist as I do unless they start to implement more extreme policies. And by extreme, I mean having a significant impact on my life. I merely meant that I just don't really notice the impact.

So, a conservative governor banning all forms of contraception in your state wouldn't hit you emotionally at all? What if said governor didn't approve a common-sense road bill that could have prevented you from hitting that pothole and stranding you on the side of the road?

Just some things to ponder, I guess. Politics affects us all emotionally at some point, so I think it's good to be active in the issues.

 

[Ivysaur]

Politics affects everything in your life, from how much money you have, to the services the state provides to you, to which things you are or aren't allowed to do. If my country ended the state-funded healthcare system, it'd affect me a lot. If they raised the threshold for retirement or cut the payments, it'd affect me a lot in the future. People who just weren't allowed to marry until a few years ago will confirm how personal politics can become.

The problem is when people are told that politics are nothing important and that they shouldn't really care about that. If you understand what politics mean and decide to abstain as a protest (as some people I know are doing), then it's your call (even if I think it's even worse for you but anyway). But if you pass on just because you don't understand what politics can mean to your everyday life or you just can't handle anything more complex than a football match, then that's a failure of society as a whole.

 

[Nah]

I think that part of it, in the US at least, is that people generally don't understand politics at all, and this kind of creates a perceived barrier of entry to it (and it's something you kind of have to keep up with to a degree, which is also off-putting to some people). It's sometimes hard to take interest in something you don't understand. I don't know about the rest of the Americans here, but when I was in school they never really went over politics or the workings of the government much outside of "hey we have 3 branches and this big ol' piece of paper called the Constitution". I honestly do not understand what y'all are talking about half the time in political discussions. I'm certain I'm not the only American like that either. It's kind of sad in a way that foreigners, who are not obligated to understand our politics at all, tend to know at lot more about our government and politics than the average American. I couldn't even tell you exactly how many amendments the US Constitution has and what each of them basically are without looking them up, though like Went or Kanzler probably could and they're Spanish and Canadian.

It's not like you can't try to learn now, but this almost makes me wish that political education was a serious part of my schooling. Where would I even begin? Am I even gonna understand now it anyway? I would hope that in the future that our education system would put some emphasis on teaching our future voters this stuff....but our education system is also garbage so I have little faith that they will, or even if they do, that they'll actually make the majority of kids want to learn, period. A dumb populace is much easier to control than a smart one anyway.

.....It also doesn't help that campaigning these days seems to be more about who puts on the best shitshow rather than them actually having an intelligent discussion about something. Picking between the lesser of the evils becomes less and less appealing the more you have to do it too. At least it's a bit easier this presidential election.

 

[Arylett Charnoa]

So, a conservative governor banning all forms of contraception in your state wouldn't hit you emotionally at all? What if said governor didn't approve a common-sense road bill that could have prevented you from hitting that pothole and stranding you on the side of the road?

Just some things to ponder, I guess. Politics affects us all emotionally at some point, so I think it's good to be active in the issues.

If it comes to that, then I suppose I'll have to do something. (If it's even possible for me to do anything) I doubt it will happen. Not saying it isn't a possibility, but there are plenty of other, much more well-informed (and much more passionate) people than I campaigning for such rights. I'd rather let them do the talking for me.

I understand that too many people being apathetic creates a problem, but I just am not comfortable doing things like this unless I know all the facts. And most of the more easily accessible facts on politics tend to be rather biased or extremist. I can't really trust most politicians either. The way people yell at each other doesn't make me comfortable in participating at all. Especially if they yell and point fingers at me just because I don't want to get so stressed out about all of this passionate debate and fighting. The more you yell at me for not voting, the more I don't want to vote. I'm just not a fan of this whole participation system in general.

Also, I do realize it's not the most logical of things, but like most people, I'm just trying to look out for myself. I think rather than pressuring people to vote, making them feel bad and calling them useless to society or part of the problem, one should play up the more positive traits if you want to convince them. Besides that, I don't think it's particularly right to do something out of guilt rather than genuinely caring about it. You can't force people to care about something they don't care about. No matter how much you say. Even if you think you have the most rational, most well-formulated of logic. At the end of the day, we're still all primitive creatures underneath that all. Some of us, we only are concerned about the now, the immediate, and what's in front of us. What we can see. Those people, they aren't fit to make such decisions. Not everyone is, and that's okay. Is it irresponsible? I won't say it isn't. But I also think it's irresponsible to give a voice to everyone, because as Gimmiepie said, not everyone is capable of making a good decision. I think a change of the system to better accommodate that sort of human nature would be better. I can't tell you what though, because again, I'm not really all that well-informed. And even if I became such, I really don't think that my mind is capable of understanding the vast scope of what it is to manage and govern so many people. What these things would do in practice.

That's all I really have to say about this topic. Anything more is kind of redundant. And I realize that most people in this thread won't agree with me and have all kinds of counterpoints to this. They will feel angered because of how much of a useless leech I am to society. But all I wanted to do was to provide something I doubt would've been provided otherwise. I did so. I won't try to justify myself any further.

EDIT: My apologies for sounding so defensive. I've just had bad experiences trying to discuss this topic with others. You've all been more civil than them. Thank you for listening. I don mean to shut down discussion.

 

[ShinyUmbreon189]

It bothers me that people don't want to try and do what's best for their country. I don't expect everyone to study in-depth. Just look at the policies of people and vote for what represents the best future for you instead of voting for who Murdoch tells you too.

What if I don't like any of the presidential candidates running this election? I don't agree with any of their polices (tho we do need healthcare and schooling but we simply can't afford it, and raising the min wage would cause inflation) and I believe they're all a bad choice to run the country I live in, especially if you consider the financial crisis we're currently in. The main 3 that would end up winning is Trump, Clinton, or Sanders which all 3 are horrible choices. I'm sure everybody knows we're screwed either way but most are voting to keep the less of the evil intact. Which would screw up America the least type of thing. While others are voting for free shit, because ones a woman, or because one plans to build a wall to keep terrorist or illegals out, which all are asinine in their own way. It's obvious Trumps a joke (we all know this), that Clinton is a corrupt witch and will say or do anything to gain power, even if she has to kill people she doesn't care (which she is under investigation and hopefully she goes to prison where she belongs), and the fucking socialist that would fuck our economy up even more. That's why I don't like any of the candidates. They're all equally bad in a way. None are "best" for our country. I look at this election as a complete joke, an even bigger joke than Trump is.

I guess it doesn't matter what kind of system you have, apathy towards politics causes problems - mostly the same problems - in all democratic nations. Some people say "why should I care?" You should care because whether you notice it or not, politics effects everyone in your country and by the time some bad policy bites you in the ass it'll be too late to start caring.

Again. As much as I'd like to agree with you, I can't say I agree with you after seeing who's running for president this election. I don't even like the idea of voting "Democrat or Republican", sounds extremely closed minded for the system to force us to do that. Some people (as myself) don't label myself either or while others vote simply because they're "Democrat or Republican" when in reality they don't know what the hell they're voting for. Many people are misguided when it comes to politics. That's the problem with voting.

 

[Jauntier]

Yes.

The people who don't care and don't vote are doing more of a service than the people who don't care yet vote because they may as well, or because someone else is shouting in their ear who to vote for, resulting in an uninformed vote not representative of the person's own beliefs, had they the chance to learn.

I attended both high school and a community college where nearly all the young adults and much of the faculty had decidedly liberal views. I cannot trust the education system at even the most basic human unit to not be biased in trying to teach politics in modern times, or at least every four years around the fall semester.

And forget about mainstream media. Make your own decision by informing yourself. And I don't mean by reading websites like the conservative establishment-fondling Wall Street Journal, or the sensitively-liberal Huffington Post. I mean going to a site that merely states the objective facts of political candidate's platforms, no added commentary whatsoever. Make your own decision on that basis. And if you think that you don't want to participate in a system you don't believe in, well, if you live in America, you're free to step aside, because other people who are more concerned or are total zealots either way will happily take up the flag and swarm the polls. We live in a representative democracy, well, those people will happily take up your representation in much the same way the politicians will claim to. You can almost live comfortably enough if you are lower middle-class to cruise through life regardless of who's in office, because who cares? You're not on the poverty line, and you're not making enough to enter a tougher tax bracket, so what does it matter anyway, a lot of us may think.

I am an Independent. I don't like the Overton Window swinging too much in either direction. Liberal rhetoric and conservative rhetoric, at their extremes, equally annoy me, so I sympathize with the unempathetic. Why would you enter a political debate when all you get from either side is garbage attacks and the occasional gem that would be worth considering being drowned out by sensitive rubbish?

Politics is not for the faint of heart, but that's because everyone else unapologetically makes it that way. I listen to C-SPAN in the morning, and it's a breath of fresh air when a unique person calls in on the broadcast line and doesn't regurgitate what our leaders feed us, the little chickadees.

 

[Pokemon Game Fan]

I feel like apathy isn't a good thing. We should always know what is going on with our country and laws. For example, I feel like if it were a Conservative President with Conservative representatives and Conservative Supreme Court judges, we would have never legalized gay marriage in the United States. Or at least wouldn't have for a very long time. Now sure, someone could say "Well I'm straight so that doesn't bother me." but by not supporting it and standing up for it, those who aren't would suffer. Same goes for other things. You don't do something to vote and stop the guy who wants to ban contraceptives because of his religious views, he wins, and that happens. You don't vote to stop the guy who wants to deport all the undocumented immigrants, then that happens and you split up a bunch of families. There are always serious issues up for grabs, whether it's towards you personally or towards someone else who needs your help.

 

[Esper]

In a democracy people have a duty to be informed. It's not a law or a rule, but part of the social contract. Since a democracy gets its authority from the people, the people have to step up once in a while to vote and their votes should be informed, meaning that the people engaged in some way with the issues affecting the running of the society, either by reading up on candidates or considering ballots or otherwise looking at the options and their potential benefits or detriments.

But it is hard. Lots of people don't want you to think too hard about things. They'd rather you didn't vote, stayed home playing video games or watching TV, or if they do want you to be involved that you get all your information from them and them only. And people have lives. I don't blame or fault anyone for not wanting to be involved in this political stuff because it's dirty and there are a lot of nasty actors in it. Those of us who don't mind (or even enjoy) the adversarial nature of politics should do better to make it more accessible to people who are new to it even if our experience tells us to always be on guard and to spew our views any chance we get.

 

[Margot]

I wish political apathy wasn't a thing, but I can certainly understand it. I spent the better part of my undergrad interning in congressional offices, with a lobbying firm, and on two political campaigns. Nothing has squandered my hope for the political system more than actually working within it. I saw big money influence everyday. I saw people trying to get a simple problem resolved only to have to go through a million different hoops. It was disheartening. I sat on the phone for 10 minutes with a voter ranting about some issue just because I knew they were likely never going to get a response to their problem. I remember getting so upset whenever my friends said they hated politics and that their votes don't matter, but I get it now.

And if you felt like politics was a mess before, this current US election is a slap in the face. It's such a joke. We've polarized ourselves so much we can't get anything done. It makes me want to crawl under a rock and not deal with anything, but at the end of the day I know that won't help either.

Basically, I can understand political apathy a lot more now than I did when I was younger. But it has only encouraged me to get involved more. I don't think anything is going to get fixed in the long-run if we're not engaged voters/citizens now. Blah, I think I rambled and I hope my post makes sense.

 

[Dusty]

I am very politically apathetic. I honestly don't care. I'm of the belief that the system is so fundamentally flawed that there is no point in participating or believing in it. Maybe its different for other countries around the world, but America is properly politically screwed. Every time election season rolls around, we get a new president who just ends up undoing half of what the previous president did, and you can know almost for certain that whatever president gets elected was put there by people with oodles of money and political agendas.

Despite how much I dislike the decisions of whoever is in office, they are rarely decisions that affect me. As an early 20 year old male, I am in the lowest tax bracket, so I don't mind taxes too much. There is no draft, so if the government wants to start a war somewhere, I don't have to get involved if I don't want to. The only thing I got kind of upset about was the whole Obamacare thing, just because apparently my health care didn't apply, but later it did, then it didn't again because its a terrible system that nobody understands.

I don't know, maybe I'm just a cynic who thinks that America is slowly going down the drain anyway.

 

[gimmepie]

Snip

Well you're not totally wrong, your government has pretty much been crap since like WW2. However, don't you think if the public was more involved in politics the government would face more accountability for their actions?