Rivaling thoughts

[Lavender]

Merged your thread in Pokemon General with the one in Pokemon Gaming Central. Posts (and quote-pings) to keep others who have responded (and who have yet to respond) in the loop.

Apparently kept the poll in the merge. Interesting. Might as well remain active.

Thanks!

 

[Reginald Cosmic]

I haven't finished EVERY mainline Pokémon game (eg, I haven't completed Alola), but I love Professor Oak's grandson (Blue, Green, Jerkface, whatever you call him in your region). I also like how Trace was erased from the timeline.

 

[Sheep]

Gary/Blue will be my bias probably for a long time, he had an excellent design that only kept improving as the generations went on. But I also like Silver, Barry, and Bede/Hop even if that may not be the most popular opinion (in the case of Hop, at least). Bede was really good and I wish we could have seen more of him.

 

[Corveone]

My favorite is Silver, the one who's actually not a rival.

I guess that probably describes how much I dislike rivals in Pokémon games in general and wouldn't mind if they get rid of them. Cheren, Bianca, and Gladion were decent, but the rest were either forgettable or annoying.

 

[MVs.C Fan]

Name your favorite rival character (from the games)

Tell me mate, ¿which is your favorite rival character? This include how they were developed on the story or for the team they have (or also for the dialogues they have with the game's protagonist/avatar).

Mine is Wally. I love his motivation for discovering the Pokémon's world by himself. He wants to left behind his insecurities and isolation for staying home. Even thought loose a lot against the protagonist (your avatar), he still doesn't dismotivate at all and keep following his own path. Plus, his Pokémon team from Emerald wasn't bad, it was good for what a good rival can offer

Ok, i want to see your answer. This is gonna be fun ^_^

 

[Explorer of Time]

I like Silver's team the most, and he also has a good character arc. Mainly his team, though. The Zubat, Magnemite, and Gastly lines are among my favorite Kanto and Johto Pokemon, and he uses all three no matter which starter you pick.

 

[CoolKid575]

Blue: Pretty vanilla and more of a jerk then a rival; his team is solid though and I like the plot twist of Blue being the champion at the end.

Silver: Tied for least favorite, he's overly edgy to the point it hurts his character. He's pretty much the Pokemon version of Shadow the Hedgehog yelling "DAMN" to appear more mature. He essentially just walks around the region moping about how friendship is worthless and how strong he is right after you beat his so-so team. His redemption also doesn't really feel earned since it takes him all of 3 battles to do a complete 180.

May/Brenden: My other least favorite, they're OK from the start to Route 110, then they just completely disappear off the face of the earth for half the game, then reappear in Lilycove then disappear again before popping up in the hall of fame. They just have too little screen time and very little personality even when they're in the spotlight.

Barry: My favorite, IMO he's the first to strike a balance between not being a jerk but still being an actual rival, he's competitive and rushes to get stronger, but he's still friends with the protag at the end of the day. He has enough battles and his team is quite good

Bianca/Cheren: Very solid, in the upper half for sure. I like their dynamic and how Cheren builds his team around various strategies. I'd say Cheren is the better rival in a gameplay sense but Bianca is better as an actual character with her arc around becoming her own person and learning to stand up for herself. They also strike an appropriate balance between rival/friend like Barry

Hugh: Basically a good version of Silver. He's angry at the world, but he has understandable motives and an actual goal (finding his sister's Pokemon). I like how he's more focused on battling and barely cares about the Pokedex compared to the 4/5 previous rivals who seemed equally focused on filling out pages and getting stronger. Team is good.

Gen 6 friends: I'm going to put these all together. I personally like the Gen 6 rivals, if Hugh is a good rival that leans more towards being a rival then a friend, then Gen 6 group are the opposite, they're good rivals that lean more towards the friendship side of the equation. There's a good sense of comradery among the group and, like Gen 6 itself, it feels like a warm blanket to have a bunch of (virtual) pals supporting you in your journey across Kalos. Their teams are all super easy, but then again, gen 6.

Hau: Hau's an OK rival, I think he's a little too chill and there isn't a whole group like in Gen 6 to give it a "friend group travelling around the region" vibe. I honestly kinda agreed with Gladeon that he doesn't take himself seriously enough. I don't remember his team so no opinion.

Hop: Didn't play Gen 8 so I have no opinion.

Nemona: I don't consider Arven a rival so I won't discuss him. Nemona isn't one of my least favorites but she's definitely in the lower half. I feel like they were trying to go for a Barry vibe with her but she comes off as kinda annoying. She only seems to be thinking about battling, battling and more battling. I do like how she goes easy on you to start, training a whole new set of Pokemon different from her normal team to keep things equal with you. But outside of that I just don't find her a compelling character.

 

[giradialkia]

When it's all laid out, we really have had quite the collection of rivals over the years! I was gonna pick one but seeing the list makes me wanna bullet-point each of them...

▪ Blue
He's the OG. Cocky, arrogant, but with the power/skills to generally back it up. It's nice to see him grow out of that and be a bit more chill in later installments (HGSS/Alola games/LGPE).

▪ Silver
He's the original edgelord, but I'll always have a soft spot in my heart for him. I originally named him ??? because I didn't realize the game was letting me name my rival and took it pretty literally. I love the subtle theming of giving him a Crobat, and how his sprite changes as he grows in GSC. I kinda wish the Giovanni-is-his-father reveal wasn't locked behind a HGSS DLC event, and wish his character was fleshed out a little more in the base games.

▪ May/Brendan - Wally?
I'll be honest, these guys were pretty disappointing in original RSE. They got some sorely-needed development in ORAS, across the board. We still should've gotten a few more battles with Wally throughout the story, but they really gave him his anime-protagonist moment and a theme song to rock the ages.

▪ Barry
I really liked DPPt Barry. Cocky like Blue, but not quite so arrogant, and the reveal of Palmer as his dad was fun back in the day. In BDSP for some reason they leave him with a Starly forever, which totally ruins him as a decent opponent, but he's a good character and I like that he briefly held the title as strongest-in-all-the-games during Platinum.

▪ Cheren/Bianca
Loved these two. Loved them! Hoenn had flubbed the multiple-rivals idea but BW knocked it out of the park with two strong characters. Bianca is so likeable; she comes to see she's not the best trainer, and probably never will be... so she puts her love of Pokémon and hunger for adventure to other uses.
Cheren's a bit arrogant but only because he takes things very seriously. He has to learn that even if he does manage to become the strongest, that's not an end-goal. Seeing the development of these two in B2W2 was one reason I loved Gen 5 so much.

▪ Hugh
I love his theme, I love his design, but after a recent replay of B2, he's not the best. His hatred of Team Plasma is a little over-projected, and it makes him a little bit one-note for the game. He still makes for a good opponent, it's just a shame that his personality kinda boiled down to "ARRRRGH THEY STOLE MY PURRLOIN, DIE".

▪ Calem/Serena/Trevor/Shauna/Tierno
Honestly? Nah. This ain't it. They were going for an anime-ensemble vibe here and it did not land for me in the slightest. I know they focused on Calem/Serena/Shauna as actual battle-rivals mostly, but it was still just so flimsy and never really meant anything.

▪ Hau/Gladion
Hau has major golden-retriever energy, and Gladion is king of the edgelords. I like them both. Hau is absolutely friend-first and rival-second but is still a great trainer. Gladion has his sad family situation and hams up the edginess but is still pretty badass.

▪ Hop/Bede
This whole generation was basically Gen 7.2.0 with the story, and I didn't have much time for it. Hop was a less likable Hau. Bede had interesting potential, and I like how they pivoted him from a Psychic-focus to a Fairy-focus. It was cool to see characters actively become Gym Leaders as we played the game, even if we never face him in his own gym.

▪ Nemona
She's... okay. After Hop and Hau, it would've been nice for someone who didn't love us so very very much for free, but her team is pretty interesting, her design/theme is nice. Her whole shtick just didn't really land for me. "I want you to be the BEST so that I can have a rival who's the BEST!". But what about her own actual goals? Arven had his story, Penny had hers. Nemona is our neighbour and managed to become a Champion... but nothing of great significance happens to/for her during the plot of the game. She camps out at gyms waiting to battle us. Then you become Champion and the game tries to set her up as a swansong battle, and it just.. felt tedious.

 

[Squirtkipfan01]

When it's all laid out, we really have had quite the collection of rivals over the years! I was gonna pick one but seeing the list makes me wanna bullet-point each of them...

▪ Blue
He's the OG. Cocky, arrogant, but with the power/skills to generally back it up. It's nice to see him grow out of that and be a bit more chill in later installments (HGSS/Alola games/LGPE).

▪ Silver
He's the original edgelord, but I'll always have a soft spot in my heart for him. I originally named him ??? because I didn't realize the game was letting me name my rival and took it pretty literally. I love the subtle theming of giving him a Crobat, and how his sprite changes as he grows in GSC. I kinda wish the Giovanni-is-his-father reveal wasn't locked behind a HGSS DLC event, and wish his character was fleshed out a little more in the base games.

▪ May/Brendan - Wally?
I'll be honest, these guys were pretty disappointing in original RSE. They got some sorely-needed development in ORAS, across the board. We still should've gotten a few more battles with Wally throughout the story, but they really gave him his anime-protagonist moment and a theme song to rock the ages.

▪ Barry
I really liked DPPt Barry. Cocky like Blue, but not quite so arrogant, and the reveal of Palmer as his dad was fun back in the day. In BDSP for some reason they leave him with a Starly forever, which totally ruins him as a decent opponent, but he's a good character and I like that he briefly held the title as strongest-in-all-the-games during Platinum.

▪ Cheren/Bianca
Loved these two. Loved them! Hoenn had flubbed the multiple-rivals idea but BW knocked it out of the park with two strong characters. Bianca is so likeable; she comes to see she's not the best trainer, and probably never will be... so she puts her love of Pokémon and hunger for adventure to other uses.
Cheren's a bit arrogant but only because he takes things very seriously. He has to learn that even if he does manage to become the strongest, that's not an end-goal. Seeing the development of these two in B2W2 was one reason I loved Gen 5 so much.

▪ Hugh
I love his theme, I love his design, but after a recent replay of B2, he's not the best. His hatred of Team Plasma is a little over-projected, and it makes him a little bit one-note for the game. He still makes for a good opponent, it's just a shame that his personality kinda boiled down to "ARRRRGH THEY STOLE MY PURRLOIN, DIE".

▪ Calem/Serena/Trevor/Shauna/Tierno
Honestly? Nah. This ain't it. They were going for an anime-ensemble vibe here and it did not land for me in the slightest. I know they focused on Calem/Serena/Shauna as actual battle-rivals mostly, but it was still just so flimsy and never really meant anything.

▪ Hau/Gladion
Hau has major golden-retriever energy, and Gladion is king of the edgelords. I like them both. Hau is absolutely friend-first and rival-second but is still a great trainer. Gladion has his sad family situation and hams up the edginess but is still pretty badass.

▪ Hop/Bede
This whole generation was basically Gen 7.2.0 with the story, and I didn't have much time for it. Hop was a less likable Hau. Bede had interesting potential, and I like how they pivoted him from a Psychic-focus to a Fairy-focus. It was cool to see characters actively become Gym Leaders as we played the game, even if we never face him in his own gym.

▪ Nemona
She's... okay. After Hop and Hau, it would've been nice for someone who didn't love us so very very much for free, but her team is pretty interesting, her design/theme is nice. Her whole shtick just didn't really land for me. "I want you to be the BEST so that I can have a rival who's the BEST!". But what about her own actual goals? Arven had his story, Penny had hers. Nemona is our neighbour and managed to become a Champion... but nothing of great significance happens to/for her during the plot of the game. She camps out at gyms waiting to battle us. Then you become Champion and the game tries to set her up as a swansong battle, and it just.. felt tedious.

Engagement replies

Silver: It was neat seeing alot of his pokemon whom evolve with friendship evolve later as subtle story telling, but man they really couldve done SOMETHING with the giovanni thing

May/Brendan/wally: I dont think the first two are any different in the remake personally, and wally still i think was better than both. Just needed more screen time

Barry: He is not cocky in the slightest, just annoying and loud. Also he held that title? In the same games as cynthia? Even if talking just rivals i had more trouble with hugh or silver

Cheren/Bianca: Lets be real, cheren is the rival and bianca is just trying to figure out what she wants with her life and they do that so well. Double so in the sequal when you see the payoff

Hugh: Ill defend this man with my life. Maybe he does just boil down to "TEAM PLASMA MRRAAAWR", but just having a rival whose goal is not "i want to be better than you" or just feeling like there just kinda along for the ride is special to me. Even after completing his goal and challenging you at victory road its not "now im gonna beat you and be the champ" he just wants to give you one last test to make sure your ready. A true bro

Gen 6: Ill always say it, there are no rivals in gen 6

Hop/Bede/Marnie: You didnt even mention marnie! Who argueably is the best. Also hop had different thing to hau, hau was in his quest for fun. Hop was actively trying to get out of his brothers shadow which shows in his constantly changing team. I thought it was interesting! And what potential for bede? He is just blue but worse!

Nemona: I never actually gave an opinion on nemona(i dont think i finished the game by then) but i actually like her well enough. I know alot of people gave her slack for being clingy and all but there is actually a reason for it. She just wants someone on her level cause EVERYONE in the region, even the """champ""" are beneath her. Even when she holds back she doesnt have fun battling, except you. Someone who actually can go toe to toe with her. Her battling you so much is just that, her battling alot because for once she has someone on her level to have fun with. Definetly on the upper level of rivals for me personally

 

[giradialkia]

Engagement replies
Barry: He is not cocky in the slightest, just annoying and loud. Also he held that title? In the same games as cynthia? Even if talking just rivals i had more trouble with hugh or silver

Cheren/Bianca: Lets be real, cheren is the rival and bianca is just trying to figure out what she wants with her life and they do that so well. Double so in the sequal when you see the payoff

Hugh: Ill defend this man with my life. Maybe he does just boil down to "TEAM PLASMA MRRAAAWR", but just having a rival whose goal is not "i want to be better than you" or just feeling like there just kinda along for the ride is special to me. Even after completing his goal and challenging you at victory road its not "now im gonna beat you and be the champ" he just wants to give you one last test to make sure your ready. A true bro

Gen 6: Ill always say it, there are no rivals in gen 6

Hop/Bede/Marnie: You didnt even mention marnie! Who argueably is the best. Also hop had different thing to hau, hau was in his quest for fun. Hop was actively trying to get out of his brothers shadow which shows in his constantly changing team. I thought it was interesting! And what potential for bede? He is just blue but worse!

Nemona: I never actually gave an opinion on nemona(i dont think i finished the game by then) but i actually like her well enough. I know alot of people gave her slack for being clingy and all but there is actually a reason for it. She just wants someone on her level cause EVERYONE in the region, even the """champ""" are beneath her. Even when she holds back she doesnt have fun battling, except you. Someone who actually can go toe to toe with her. Her battling you so much is just that, her battling alot because for once she has someone on her level to have fun with. Definetly on the upper level of rivals for me personally

Just gonna reply to a couple of these:

Barry: You're right, cocky was the wrong word. He's not unpleasant, he's just a bit hyperactive and very enthusiastic. When I say "cocky", I guess I meant "very self-confident". And yes, in Platinum you can rematch him regularly, and his team levels up every time (that, or he levels up each time you beat the League). His final team has a level 85 starter, which was only surpassed by Red's level 88 Pikachu in HGSS.

Cheren/Bianca: Yeah, fair. It's just this was the first time where they presented us with multiple recurring "rival" characters, so while Bianca isn't as strong as Cheren (or anyone), she at least starts out as a rival.

Hugh: Also fair! I guess, when I played W2 initially, I was so used to my rival generally sharing my goal, so I was a little blinded by Hugh's alternate aims. I did like his team/design/theme, I just need to replay and check out his story beats a bit closer.

Hop/Bede/Marnie: Naaaaaaah, I just can't like Hop - he was just too one-dimensional. If he was a little jealous of Leon or something, maybe, but he worshipped his brother too much, which kinda un-does any trying-to-get-out-of-his-shadow for me. The brief moment where he changes his team because Bede breaks his spirit was interesting and I wish it lasted a bit longer; but he recovers from his depression arc after about 5 minutes. There were a lot of story/character problems with SwSh, Leon himself being one of them, and Hop's relationship with him kinda made his own characterization suffer a little.
Marnie was cool, for sure, but her story... kinda had little to no impact on the overarching story? She's got a cool design, and it was a different and interesting spin to have her as the "leader" of Team Yell. It's just, we already had Hop (who wasn't great) and I feel like Bede counteracted Hop's vibe sufficiently, so Marnie was just "around" from time to time.

Nemona: Again, gotta disagree. In DPPt/BDSP, we'd seen Volkner as a burned-out trainer who was dying for another challenge; that's a valid character trait, but for Nemona they tried to stretch it out over the course of a whole story, and on a character who's wholly positive. I also didn't really like that they changed the definition of Champion for SV; it kinda dampened the goal for me when I was halfway through the story, and certainly didn't make the Nemona plotline any more appealing to me. Definitely not the worst, but more mid-range for me.