Should Ice be buffed to resist Grass, Ground, and Flying?

[Guzeinbuick]

Hey guys, pretty new around here and looking for some feedback. What's the general consensus regarding Ice type around here? I feel it was originally designed to be borderline useless because it was the only thing that could check Dragons. But now that we have Fairy, Ice type seems completely obsolesced. Yay or nay?

 

[Dr. Seuss]

I moved your post to Pokémon Gaming Central since your discussion better fits this place rather than a fan game forum.

 

[Corveone]

The issue is that Ice moves check Dragons, but Ice type Pokémon check nothing.

Resisting Dragon and Ground sounds reasonable to me (I actually suggested that in another thread). For Dragon, however, I would make Steel stop resisting it to compensate, and nerf Steel a little in the process.

I'm not sure about resisting Flying, maybe that would be too much.

Resisting Grass definitely no. Grass is already resisted by 7 types, it doesn't need to be walled even more.

 

[ReKoil]

It should definitely resist Ground imo.
Possibly flying too, but not necessarily.
Idk about Dragon. Corveone makes a solid point for it I guess.

 

[Zeostar]

Absolutely not grass. That would be helping one and hurting another.

A rock resistance would be nice.

 

[PageEmp]

Ice should resist Normal. The other types based off hard objects resist Normal but not Ice for some reason. Even sometimes I believe Ice actually does resist Normal because of that.

 

[Incudust]

I think ice should resist dragon instead of steel resisting dragon. why would they make steel resist dragon even though it resists damn near half the game, and leave ice neglected? While I'm on the subject of steel, wouldn't it have been nice if they gave that psychic resist to another underserved class instead? Perhaps bug? I agree that grass is walled by enough already, so ice should not resist it. I'm of the school of thought that ice should hit water for super effective damage, or at least just not b resisted by it. Also if flying was weak against ice, ice would then b taking electric types job of being hard counter to flying.

It should definitely resist Ground imo.
Possibly flying too, but not necessarily.
Idk about Dragon. Corveone makes a solid point for it I guess.

The issue is that Ice moves check Dragons, but Ice type Pokémon check nothing.

Resisting Dragon and Ground sounds reasonable to me (I actually suggested that in another thread). For Dragon, however, I would make Steel stop resisting it to compensate, and nerf Steel a little in the process.

I'm not sure about resisting Flying, maybe that would be too much.

Resisting Grass definitely no. Grass is already resisted by 7 types, it doesn't need to be walled even more.

U two don't think ice resisting ground would marginalize grass at all? One of grasses main strengths is being hard counter to ground type. If ice was just as effective against ground type(barring their rock weakness of course, I know lots of ground types have rock moves but not all right? Correct me if I'm wrong) wouldn't that make grass all the less relevant? I mean I know grass hits water effectively and ice gets walled by water, but water types have ice moves that hit grass effectively so grass has some trouble with water too

 

[Palamon]

Honestly, Dragon. Ice is strong against Dragon, I really never understood why Dragon does neutral damage to Ice. Ground being resisted by Ice would make sense, so I wouldn't mind that one. However,

Grass does not need yet another type resisted by it. Grass already has enough. I completely understand why Flying does neutral damage to Ice, and I wouldn't change that.

Also, not mentioned in the poll but water should be resisted by Ice. Ice literally freezes water, Water should not do neutral damage to Ice. I literally have never understood why the Ice type is resisted by Water, it should be the other way around.

 

[Incudust]

Honestly, Dragon. Ice is strong against Dragon, I really never understood why Dragon does neutral damage to Ice. Ground being resisted by Ice would make sense, so I wouldn't mind that one. However,

Grass does not need yet another type resisted by it. Grass already has enough. I completely understand why Flying does neutral damage to Ice, and I wouldn't change that.

Also, not mentioned in the poll but water should be resisted by Ice. Ice literally freezes water, Water should not do neutral damage to Ice. I literally have never understood why the Ice type is resisted by Water, it should be the other way around.

I would love being able to deal super effective damage against water with ice. I like the idea of having a water ice type that can not only resist water with its water typing, but can then deal super effective damage through its ice type stab moves. Also, am I the only one who thinks too many water types have too many ice type moves that they can learn? That marginalizes ice type, and hurts grass type even more.

Hey guys, pretty new around here and looking for some feedback. What's the general consensus regarding Ice type around here? I feel it was originally designed to be borderline useless because it was the only thing that could check Dragons. But now that we have Fairy, Ice type seems completely obsolesced. Yay or nay?

Here's my take on what ice should get. Super effective against water, resistant to dragon, not weak to steel anymore,(this would further differentiate rock and steel as well) and resisted by fighting to replace the resistance that water had against it. That would make it have the amount of type coverage that ground and fighting type has, with resistance to one of the strongest types in the game.

 

[Corveone]

U two don't think ice resisting ground would marginalize grass at all? One of grasses main strengths is being hard counter to ground type. If ice was just as effective against ground type(barring their rock weakness of course, I know lots of ground types have rock moves but not all right? Correct me if I'm wrong) wouldn't that make grass all the less relevant? I mean I know grass hits water effectively and ice gets walled by water, but water types have ice moves that hit grass effectively so grass has some trouble with water too

You may be right about that. I'm sure about Ice resisting Dragon (while making Steel no longer resist it, so that Dragon moves don't suck that much), but not completely convinced about Ground.

I mean, Ground is technically the most overpowered type offensively because it's the only type besides Fighting that is super effective against five types. But there are also five types that resist Fighting and one type that's immune to it, so it's balanced. Ground, however, is only resisted by Grass and Bug, and deals no damage to Flying. The Levitate ability is pretty much the only thing that keeps Ground moves from being too broken, without it the options to counter the common issue of having multiple Ground weaknesses would be fairly limited, especially since Grass and Bug don't have good synergy so it's usually not a good idea to have both.

Ground and Rock are the only moves that have more types weak to them that types resisting/immune to them, but Rock type moves suffer from infamous accuracy issues so it compensates.

Back to Ice, I assume the main reason why it sucks defensively is because it wasn't intended to be a pure type (in fact we didn't get a pure Ice type until Gen 3), and because in Gen 1 Ice moves were too broken and GF just didn't care back then about type chart balancing, they just made some types to be blatantly stronger than others to the point that Psychic, Water, Electric, Ground and Ice was pretty much all you needed to care about in Kanto.

 

[Ninetales]

Ice should resist Normal. The other types based off hard objects resist Normal but not Ice for some reason. Even sometimes I believe Ice actually does resist Normal because of that.

This doesn't make much sense to me, perhaps because I don't view ice as particularly "hard". I perceive it as fragile, hence why I believe it has no resistances aside from itself. Maybe it's the Canadian in me, but ice can be easily broken, shattered without much exertion, etc. It's not something particularly sturdy.

I do think a resistance would help, of course. Though, ground seems the most logical to me personally.

 

[PageEmp]

This doesn't make much sense to me, perhaps because I don't view ice as particularly "hard". I perceive it as fragile, hence why I believe it has no resistances aside from itself. Maybe it's the Canadian in me, but ice can be easily broken, shattered without much exertion, etc. It's not something particularly sturdy.

I do think a resistance would help, of course. Though, ground seems the most logical to me personally.

Hm… right. I can understand those points, but logically, hitting a large iceberg-like substance is probably gonna hurt if you aren't trained to do so. Like y'know, I'm sure something like a large block of freezed up water definitly isn't gonna get blown down in one standard, non-prepared hit.

Anyone else got more thoughts on the matter?

 

[Incudust]

Hm… right. I can understand those points, but logically, hitting a large iceberg-like substance is probably gonna hurt if you aren't trained to do so. Like y'know, I'm sure something like a large block of freezed up water definitly isn't gonna get blown down in one standard, non-prepared hit.

Anyone else got more thoughts on the matter?

I see what you're saying but if something else resisted normal, I think normal type would b more gimped than it needs to be. I think if ice resisted dragon instead of steel resisting dragon that would be huge, maybe even throw in water resistance. I would prefer ice just being strong against water instead, so ice gets tied with fighting/ground as most offensive in the game. In that case it could b more like a glass cannon type, which could b a fun theme

 

[Ninetales]

I actually like the idea of ice resisting water, I always incorrectly assume it does for whatever reason.

 

[Sydian]

ice resisting ground would be nice and i'm gonna throw my vote to water too. i mean water freezes into ice, they kind of just Go together, idk why water resists ice, but not the other way around.

 

[PageEmp]

I see what you're saying but if something else resisted normal, I think normal type would b more gimped than it needs to be.

Would it? I thought it would still be fine balance wise since we still we've still got Hyper beam, Body slam, a massive variety of somewhat powerful moves. That's not even counting the fact we have tons of very strong Normal mons as well. I personally think it should be alright for the most part.

 

[Corveone]

Hm… right. I can understand those points, but logically, hitting a large iceberg-like substance is probably gonna hurt if you aren't trained to do so. Like y'know, I'm sure something like a large block of freezed up water definitly isn't gonna get blown down in one standard, non-prepared hit.

Anyone else got more thoughts on the matter?

Well, that depends on whether the Ice type Pokémon is actually made of Ice.

Some look like it (Glalie, Vanilluxe, Gryogonal, Regice, Avalugg), but many others are just regular animals that live in cold environments. Unlike Rock and Steel Pokémon, which I believe at least part of their bodies are allways made of those elements.

 

[PokemonPotatoHero]

Yes I suppose, if not its too underrated