Sun/Moon signal the sad death of Pokémon as we know it

[Pinkie-Dawn]

Wait, are you endorsing saving the world through mass genocide? Because that's a bit messed up. Please tell me I'm missing some context here. >.<

Yes, and it's also why MCU Ultron has a point about humanity and why it should be taken into consideration.

And I am going to guess the people who are really against this are people from the first generation who have not really liked anything since the originals because you can't be happy for how long pokemon has lasted as a whole and are stuck in the past because of useless, overactive nostalgia.

Or they've only played the first generation and not the later games because they felt they're all the same game (yes, they'll even think SM is still the same game regardless of changes made to the structure).

 

[clbgolden]

Yes, and it's also why MCU Ultron has a point about humanity and why it should be taken into consideration.

Waitttt, you seriously think killing masses of people is something that should be taken into consideration?

Do you NOT see the problem with that?

 

[MarioManH]

Haven't logged in for months, and I came on just to reply to this.

You never gave these games a chance what-so-ever, and just because of that your whole argument is just irrelevant. Yes, these games could end up being a total flop, or these games could usher in a new golden age of Pokemon.

I remember thinking that 5th Generation was going to be a total flop, as I felt it would be some what of a repeat of 4th Generation, but it ended up refreshing the whole Pokemon franchise. What I mean by that B/W brought back many old fans (From pre-Gen4), and introduced a bunch of new fans to the scene, with nostalgic feels that were reminiscent of the first games.

Don't judge a book by it's cover.

 

[Nah]

Probably worth noting that Game Freak does have more experience under their belt with 3DS games after X/Y and ORAS. If S/M were the very first main game 3DS games, I'd be slightly worried, but seeing as this is the third pair of 3DS games? I'd say they're pretty adept to things by now.

Nah I mean that when you look at the first released pair of each generation since 3 (so R/S, D/P, B/W, and X/Y), you'll notice a pattern with them, and it's not exactly a positive one. What's stopping them from continuing it with Sun/Moon?

 

[MegaKuriboh]

That's precisely what I'm saying, though! R/S were the first GBA games, and then Game Freak improved with Emerald mid-generation with fixes, etc. D/P were the first DS games, they were really slow, and then Platinum came about and there were improvements. B/W is debatable; some may argue it's fluid because of the story, and just had a ****ty post-game, which was improved upon in B2W2. X/Y were the first 3DS games, so it's expected that it turned out rushed. Don't forget ORAS; which is arguably more fluid in gameplay than X/Y.

So basically, what I was saying is the issue of things being botched up, rushed, and messy is usually only seen by the first games of each console rather than each generation, although the former coincides with the latter.

tl;dr of what I'm trying to say is that this is Game Freak's third pair of 3DS games. If these were the first pair of games to come out on the 3DS ever, then I can see your concern about sloppiness and rushed areas, but they've had X/Y for that, and ORAS is arguably more polished than X/Y, so there's probably a safe bet that S/M would turn out to be more polished than ORAS.

I agree, I feel like R/S, D/P and X/Y are all sort of empty and not super polished, but I thought BW was pretty solid (even though it didn't have a Battle Frontier), but as whole games they're pretty solid meanwhile I never want to touch my Diamond/Pearl games again. In fact, I'm glad they didn't decide to give us Gray, and gave us a whole new adventure in that region instead (Although XY could have done with a Z).

I'm trying to keep my hopes low on a few things, but I feel like Game Freak won't let us down with these games. They had 3 or so years of development time, it's the 20th anniversary games, and also after a disappointing generation, they have no excuse to bring us lackluster and empty games.

 

[Dman10062]

I do not see the recent and new games as the death of the series. The Pokemon Company is certainly changing things up, but that does not mean that Pokemon is dying. I think The Pokemon Company, as many others have pointed out, is simply adding some new things to the old formula. While some new ideas might be poorly implemented in one game, that means that The Pokemon Company can try to fix it in later games.

For example, let's look at the first gen games. Nostalgia aside, they were extremely broken games and are nothing compared to games like OR and AS. Just because something new is being introduced, it doesn't mean that the whole game series is going to die off immediately. Just give Sun and Moon a chance, and if you don't like the game, simply do not play it, and give the Pokemon Company some constructive feedback so they can improve whatever you thought was bad.

 

[BettyNewbie]

I really don't like the "if you don't like it, don't play it" mentality I'm seeing in many of these comments. Cerberus brought up many valid points that are worth considering, even if you disagree with him.

It seems that anytime the newest games are criticized for anything, people have this kneejerk reaction and write off any criticism as being "blinded by nostalgia." Being a Pokémon fan shouldn't mean having to blindly love everything about every game, and in fact, more people should be critiquing the games and acknowledging that GF doesn't always make the best or smartest decisions. That's what a healthy fandom does. Way too many of these comments read like they were written by GF/Nintendo representatives rather than ordinary fans.

Those are my final words on this topic, take 'em or leave 'em.

 

[Caaethil]

I really don't like the "if you don't like it, don't play it" mentality I'm seeing in many of these comments. Cerberus brought up many valid points that are worth considering, even if you disagree with him.

It seems that anytime the newest games are criticized for anything, people have this kneejerk reaction and write off any criticism as being "blinded by nostalgia." Being a Pokémon fan shouldn't mean having to blindly love everything about every game, and in fact, more people should be critiquing the games and acknowledging that GF doesn't always make the best or smartest decisions. That's what a healthy fandom does. Way too many of these comments read like they were written by GF/Nintendo representatives rather than ordinary fans.

Those are my final words on this topic, take 'em or leave 'em.

I'm not surprised you chose to reply to only the lowest common denominator of responses you got.

To clarify, we're telling you you're blinded by nostalgia or some such because the only reason you seem mad is because it's different. You have this vague kind of "it's not Pokemon" argument and that's no good. Not to mention the demonstrably false comment of it alienating the core fanbase.

And by the way, what mentality would you prefer in the future? If you don't like it, go to GameFreak and make them change it? If you don't like it, destroy every copy to make sure GameFreak do it differently next time? If you don't like it, write a strongly worded email to Nintendo? Because "if you don't like it, don't play it" seems like a perfectly sensible response to me.

Yes, and it's also why MCU Ultron has a point about humanity and why it should be taken into consideration.

Well, um... That's interesting. I'd like to see a Round Table thread on this. This isn't the place. :)

 

[MegaKuriboh]

I really don't like the "if you don't like it, don't play it" mentality I'm seeing in many of these comments. Cerberus brought up many valid points that are worth considering, even if you disagree with him.

It seems that anytime the newest games are criticized for anything, people have this kneejerk reaction and write off any criticism as being "blinded by nostalgia." Being a Pokémon fan shouldn't mean having to blindly love everything about every game, and in fact, more people should be critiquing the games and acknowledging that GF doesn't always make the best or smartest decisions. That's what a healthy fandom does. Way too many of these comments read like they were written by GF/Nintendo representatives rather than ordinary fans.

Those are my final words on this topic, take 'em or leave 'em.

It's fine to criticize a game if you don't like it, but why before the game even comes out? We have no idea if these changes will be good or bad to the franchise, and we probably only know about 25% of the game at best anyways right now, so why write off the games that could potentially be fantastic when you don't know it?

 

[clbgolden]

I really don't like the "if you don't like it, don't play it" mentality I'm seeing in many of these comments. Cerberus brought up many valid points that are worth considering, even if you disagree with him.

It seems that anytime the newest games are criticized for anything, people have this kneejerk reaction and write off any criticism as being "blinded by nostalgia." Being a Pokémon fan shouldn't mean having to blindly love everything about every game, and in fact, more people should be critiquing the games and acknowledging that GF doesn't always make the best or smartest decisions. That's what a healthy fandom does. Way too many of these comments read like they were written by GF/Nintendo representatives rather than ordinary fans.

Those are my final words on this topic, take 'em or leave 'em.

There's a fine line between critiques and then saying these games are going to ruin the Pokémon franchise.

 

[Iceshadow3317]

I really don't like the "if you don't like it, don't play it" mentality I'm seeing in many of these comments. Cerberus brought up many valid points that are worth considering, even if you disagree with him.

It seems that anytime the newest games are criticized for anything, people have this kneejerk reaction and write off any criticism as being "blinded by nostalgia." Being a Pokémon fan shouldn't mean having to blindly love everything about every game, and in fact, more people should be critiquing the games and acknowledging that GF doesn't always make the best or smartest decisions. That's what a healthy fandom does. Way too many of these comments read like they were written by GF/Nintendo representatives rather than ordinary fans.

Those are my final words on this topic, take 'em or leave 'em.

What's the difference between what you have said and what we say? So because we are fans of pokemon, we can't defend the games before they come out? Well guess what, we are tired of that type of mentality. And most of the time, it is blinded by nostalgia because they have hated on everything that isn't Gen 1. Or they just CAN'T ACCEPT change. And that is usually what it boils down to. It's new so people automatically hate it because it isn't what it used to be.

Even the ones who defend GF/Nintendo can disagree with them, but continue to defend them.

I disagreed with a lot of things they did in 6th Gen, but I either accepted it or it grew on me. Arceus knows how much I disagreed with them on so much in 6th gen. I hated the change from Gyms to Trials, but I adapted and I think it is the best way to go for the entire franchise. Especially if it is going to focus a bit more on story. I disagree with a lot of things GF/Nintendo does, but I am going to continue to defend them and trust that they know what they are doing.

 

[Mobile Tsk]

On the contrary I am actually thrilled about the new games, which is something I haven't been able to say in a long time. Frankly a lot of people, myself included, have grown tired of seeing the same formula over and over again. This was coupled with the truly uninspired designs of Gen 4/5 that only began to show signs of life in Gen 6 that made a lot of people think that the franchise was begin to founder. But what we know about the new games shows some very cutting edge game design and I think it's about time we had a change of pace. And yes, while I agree "If you don't like it, don't play it" is a rather weak cop-out for the defense of gimmicky game developments, I do think most of the people rejecting the change in Sun & Moon are, in fact, blinded by nostalgia. I've had a lot of disdain for some of the games that have come out in the past 10 years and for a while I thought it was because what made them different from the original games. But no, the lack of creativity, staleness of the same storyline repeated in another, more arduous and painfully elongated region, was what I disliked about them. The new games really offer a breath of fresh air for people who thought the franchise was on its way out.

 

[machomuu]

Heh, I suppose someone had to.

I find it a bit funny that I'm seeing this despite S&M being the most excited I've dared to be about a Pokemon game since DP, which was also the release that ended with me being pretty jaded towards the series and its later releases (and even some of its earlier ones retroactively). Largely because the formula- well, first, as I've said before, isn't what makes Pokemon "Pokemon", there's a lot more to it than that. But even if it was...it's not gone. It's still here, as clear as day, just given a different coat to make it feel like a fresher experience which, if I'm going to be honest, is probably the best and most brilliant way they could please those that want more of the same and those that have left the series or have grown tired of the same old thing.

But the gym battles are still there, the rival's still there, the team's still there, and so on, they've just been given some functional restructuring for the sake of the title. Is it really so wrong to get creative with a long-running concept? I mean, I could understand being upset if they basically built the game from the ground up and it wasn't to your liking, but this is basically the answer to changing from doing too little without doing too much, and honestly I think that's the firm grasp and flourishing of Pokemon's potential that it's needed for generations. That they could find a happy medium is a good thing and I'm glad it's being so well-received, because it shows GF that they can play with ideas without being yelled at for it, and depending on the praise for the game, it will become the expectation and Pokemon, as a franchise, will inevitably really grow into its own.

That's the way I see it anyway. Pokemon isn't dying. It's not being reborn or anything. It's just moving forward, and thank goodness for that.

 

[Pinkie-Dawn]

Heh, I suppose someone had to.

I find it a bit funny that I'm seeing this despite S&M being the most excited I've dared to be about a Pokemon game since DP, which was also the release that ended with me being pretty jaded towards the series and its later releases (and even some of its earlier ones retroactively). Largely because the formula- well, first, as I've said before, isn't what makes Pokemon "Pokemon", there's a lot more to it than that. But even if it was...it's not gone. It's still here, as clear as day, just given a different coat to make it feel like a fresher experience which, if I'm going to be honest, is probably the best and most brilliant way they could please those that want more of the same and those that have left the series or have grown tired of the same old thing.

But the gym battles are still there, the rival's still there, the team's still there, and so on, they've just been given some functional restructuring for the sake of the title. Is it really so wrong to get creative with a long-running concept? I mean, I could understand being upset if they basically built the game from the ground up and it wasn't to your liking, but this is basically the answer to changing from doing too little without doing too much, and honestly I think that's the firm grasp and flourishing of Pokemon's potential that it's needed for generations. That they could find a happy medium is a good thing and I'm glad it's being so well-received, because it shows GF that they can play with ideas without being yelled at for it, and depending on the praise for the game, it will become the expectation and Pokemon, as a franchise, will inevitably really grow into its own.

That's the way I see it anyway. Pokemon isn't dying. It's not being reborn or anything. It's just moving forward, and thank goodness for that.

This situation has also happened with the Paper Mario fanbase when Color Splash was announced. Whenever the developers tries a different spin to the series' structure, the older fans will be outraged and deem the franchise ruined forever.

 

[MarinoKadame]

This situation has also happened with the Paper Mario fanbase when Color Splash was announced. Whenever the developers tries a different spin to the series' structure, the older fans will be outraged and deem the franchise ruined forever.

Just like with Metroid with Other M and the latest one that came out. I wish Nintendo even said a word about Metroid anniversary but they said nothing and kept going on the Zelda bandwagon like always.

 

[Pinkie-Dawn]

Just like with Metroid with Other M and the latest one that came out. I wish Nintendo even said a word about Metroid anniversary but they said nothing and kept going on the Zelda bandwagon like always.

They didn't make any big deal with Zelda's anniversary either because of Pokemon's 20th anniversary.

 

[MarinoKadame]

They didn't make any big deal with Zelda's anniversary either because of Pokemon's 20th anniversary.

They still dedicated an whole E3 with just Zelda outside of the Treehouse stuff.

 

[Azire]

I don't understand the reason for discussion here. This is Gen VII, and it is the end...

Just like Gen VI was the end, I mean, what comes after X and Y? Z, and that can only mean the end. So many people were talking about it.

Oh yeah, Gen V was the end as well. Especially once B2W2 were announced instead of Grey. The Pokémon Company changing stuff up obviously means the end.

Wait let's not forget that Gen IV was also the end!! How do you follow up the GOD of all Pokémon!? I remember plenty of talk about that.

In all fairness, I didn't really play Gen III, and I don't remember forums from back when I was playing Gen I and Gen II. I do remember talk that Pokémon would die after Gen I & II, because Gen II included Gen I areas, and obviously they were out of ideas. I don't regret not playing Gen III, I still haven't been able to finish a Gen III game, even with the remakes. That story sucks so bad......

Long story short, EVERY Gen is the last Gen, Pokémon is always ending. The sky is falling!! Wolf!! WOLF!!

 

[Kieran]

When generation 5 came in, I gave the games a chance but I realized I don't like the generation to the slightest bit. I still went on to buy White 2 after getting Black and White, but I wasn't pleased with it, at all.

Generation 6 really sparked me again, but nothing beats the hype of this new generation! All the changes made, all the formulas changing, new Pokemon, and oh, new forms for the older Pokemon. I am in.

You cannot please everyone. Every generations, PC will see people whining about how GameFreak is ruining Pokemon and how this will so be the last generation and how the person complaining will never buy the games.

 

[Mr. Meme]

For a moment, I thought this was gonna involve that utterly bone-headed Gnoggin theory.

This is still freaking stupid. You don't need story to enjoy a game. When I played Kingdom Hearts: DDS I skipped literally every single cutscene that was skippable, and I still had a blast.