Super Smash Bros. Discussion

[ShadowEdge]

Couldn't they make the ice climbers like Rosalina and Luma?

 

[GreenFlame]

I guess but it's just its wierd since he's pretty much the same as Mario with only a few different move sets. Seems a bit lazy I would of revived Pichu since we already have enough Mario characters :/

That's the point of a clone. They didn't have time to add any new characters, but they did have time to make characters that are almost exactly the same as another character apart from moveset changes.

Couldn't they make the ice climbers like Rosalina and Luma?

The Ice Climbers were planned for the game, but they couldn't get them to work on the 3DS version so Sakurai (the game's director) cut them because he wanted the roster to be the same for both versions. Many people say that Rosalina and Luma replaced the Ice Climbers, and while this is true in terms of them being the new '2-in-1' character, they actually play completely differently to the Ice Climbers.

 

[Aven]

I was more commenting on the fact that someone said that a fast character could beat Rosalina, but if you used Ganondorf right you could probably get the same results.

I was just saying how you might have an advantage with a faster and more ranged character, I clearly understand how a Rosalina might be easy if you've mastered Ganondorf.

Spoiler:

so I unlocked Dr. Mario and R.O.B today and I have to say why did they revive Dr. Mario I have no clue why?

Spoiler:

I like to think that "Dr Mario" is here to fix the unsaid law that cut characters could never return. And now that he mended that "law" Mewtwo is back :) Ah Mewtwo, you've been gone too long...

I'm quoting you right now to reply to you :P. Taking out her Luma does help a lot, that's true, but even without it she has still got high-range, high-speed attacks and her aerials. I main Sheik AND R.O.B, and it's still a pretty difficult fight. Perhaps I need to improve my reads though, I'm not sure.

P.S I've even heard some people say ZSS is OP, and then that Sheik is OP. I don't really think either of that's true.

I can't judge how tough she is for you, or how good you can "read" an opponent. But yes, I understand what you mean by she's still pretty good without Luma. But to me at least, she seems unbeatable with her. That's the only reason I said to take out her Luma, I didn't mean to say that she was defenseless like the Ice Climbers without each other. Many people of course will still say that, if you were going to judge how OP a character is, you'd have to judge their mastered form. But I personally think that being hard to master is a disadvantage of it's own. That's one of the main reasons I consider Rosalina balanced.

And yes, many people will say many characters are OP. Like I was saying with Little Mac. I find all over the internet all the time that people "stopped maining Little Mac because it was just too easy" >.> Obviously those people never faced a true Smasher like me or you before xP All characters have their advantages, but many people don't know their weaknesses.

 

[GreenFlame]

I can't judge how tough she is for you, or how good you can "read" an opponent. But yes, I understand what you mean by she's still pretty good without Luma. But to me at least, she seems unbeatable with her. That's the only reason I said to take out her Luma, I didn't mean to say that she was defenseless like the Ice Climbers without each other. Many people of course will still say that, if you were going to judge how OP a character is, you'd have to judge their mastered form. But I personally think that being hard to master is a disadvantage of it's own. That's one of the main reasons I consider Rosalina balanced.

And yes, many people will say many characters are OP. Like I was saying with Little Mac. I find all over the internet all the time that people "stopped maining Little Mac because it was just too easy" >.> Obviously those people never faced a true Smasher like me or you before xP All characters have their advantages, but many people don't know their weaknesses.

You've got a good point. Perhaps the fact that it can be hard to get good at Rosalina could mean that ultimately people who play Rosalina have a bit of a weakness. I would still like to do my best to practice against her though, because I would like to find and exploit her weaknesses so I know how to deal with her.

Also, yes, there are always people who will complain of OP characters. Little Mac isn't OP, but he isn't under-powered either. I mained Mac for a little while once I got the game, and I got pretty good with him, and realised that despite the simplicity of his strength to weakness balance and moveset, there is still a whole lot of depth to the strategy. Heck, people have even learned to edge-guard with Mac. Yes, the one character we thought wasn't meant to leave the stage can jump off, gimp people, and then safely recover.
Mac has since become a secondary of mine, because after I discovered Sheik I just liked her playstyle better and loved her juggling capability. I've since started also using R.O.B, and I would have started with Luigi either way.

 

[Pinkie-Dawn]

Has anyone gotten these notifications from online play:

Spoiler:

It's approximately 136 years, and it's causing a ruckcus. I haven't checked mine, but seeing this has got me to temporarily stop playing online until the situation is fixed.

I guess but it's just its wierd since he's pretty much the same as Mario with only a few different move sets. Seems a bit lazy I would of revived Pichu since we already have enough Mario characters :/

> Says there's enough Mario characters
> Asks for more Pokemon characters like Pichu

Seems legit.

 

[saifors]

I tried Lucina on online, and there seems to be a slight input lag that makes it impossible to correcty use her side-B I went against a few opponents and noticed on multiple occasions that there was no way I could have won one battle against shulk whenever I got a bit close to him he was able to hit me and I just could't get close enough to hit him and when I tried ranged attacks he just easilly ran up to me, I went against a Greninja and I had to use Sonic to beat him as any other of the characters I used couldn't keep up with his combos.
About Little Mac how well he is depends on the stage on final destintion he's really good but on stages with elevated platforms to jump up to (Battlefield for example) he's gonna have a hard time.

 

[Nah]

I tried Lucina on online, and there seems to be a slight input lag that makes it impossible to correcty use her side-B I went against a few opponents and noticed on multiple occasions that there was no way I could have won one battle against shulk whenever I got a bit close to him he was able to hit me and I just could't get close enough to hit him and when I tried ranged attacks he just easilly ran up to me, I went against a Greninja and I had to use Sonic to beat him as any other of the characters I used couldn't keep up with his combos.
About Little Mac how well he is depends on the stage on final destintion he's really good but on stages with elevated platforms to jump up to (Battlefield for example) he's gonna have a hard time.

Part of it could be that there's some very slight lag when you're playing, part of it is just that I think that the timing for the inputs for Dancing Blade are either very precise or just really erratic. Lucina's one of my mains, and there's some times (both online and offline) where I can flawlessly pull off any variation of Dancing Blade, then other times where I can't get off more than 2 swings.

So either I really need to pay attention to my button presses when using it, or the inputs are whack.

EDIT: Nah wait, I think it's just the timing is all. You can't do it as fast as you could in Brawl (where you could practically mash B to do Dancing Blade), but it's not like Melee either where you have to do it kinda slowly. I think that the heat of battle sometimes makes you press the buttons too fast, which makes it not work. Of course, lag still ****s up your timing.

 

[ShadowEdge]

Has anyone gotten these notifications from online play:

Spoiler:

It's approximately 136 years, and it's causing a ruckcus. I haven't checked mine, but seeing this has got me to temporarily stop playing online until the situation is fixed.



> Says there's enough Mario characters
> Asks for more Pokemon characters like Pichu

Seems legit.

Well I was talking about reviving characters like DR. Mario. It would of seemed much better to revive Pichu over Dr.Mario

 

[BrandoSheriff]

I think the reason for Dr. Mario's inclusion over Pichu (provided there was any sort of contest) was because Dr. Mario was the more popular clone that was cut, aside from Roy. What I mean by this is that more people played as Dr. Mario than they did Pichu, so they went with the more popular option.

But Roy tho... some days, I still weep... :'/

 

[ShadowEdge]

I think the reason for Dr. Mario's inclusion over Pichu (provided there was any sort of contest) was because Dr. Mario was the more popular clone that was cut, aside from Roy. What I mean by this is that more people played as Dr. Mario than they did Pichu, so they went with the more popular option.

But Roy tho... some days, I still weep... :'/

Haha alright I understand now. They should of gone with Roy since they where giving Fire Emblem so much attention.

 

[BrandoSheriff]

I definitely agree that they should've brought back Roy too, but I guess they chose Lucina and Robin because they're recent. Oh well, but with Mewtwo coming back as DLC, who's to say Roy won't get the same treatment somewhere down the line? Mewtwo's return really paves the way for other characters possibly becoming DLC.

 

[GreenFlame]

I definitely agree that they should've brought back Roy too, but I guess they chose Lucina and Robin because they're recent. Oh well, but with Mewtwo coming back as DLC, who's to say Roy won't get the same treatment somewhere down the line? Mewtwo's return really paves the way for other characters possibly becoming DLC.

True. Mewtwo is confirmation not only that DLC can happen, but also that even characters who currently have trophies can come in as DLC. That opens up many possibilities, including for veterans like Roy or Wolf, or new characters like Captain Toad (though, he can't jump in his game and it even says so in his trophy; I wonder how that would work out in Smash) to promote recent games. I'm only using Captain Toad as an example though, because there are many other potential characters that could join the battle.

 

[Aven]

I tried Lucina on online, and there seems to be a slight input lag that makes it impossible to correcty use her side-B I went against a few opponents and noticed on multiple occasions that there was no way I could have won one battle against shulk whenever I got a bit close to him he was able to hit me and I just could't get close enough to hit him and when I tried ranged attacks he just easilly ran up to me, I went against a Greninja and I had to use Sonic to beat him as any other of the characters I used couldn't keep up with his combos.

Yeah, sorry man but it seems to me by what you say that you just need a little more practice with the game. People like Shulk (and even Lucina and Marth) have great ranged game when they know how to use it. You just gotta be able to learn the characters weaknesses and vulnerabilities.

Part of it could be that there's some very slight lag when you're playing, part of it is just that I think that the timing for the inputs for Dancing Blade are either very precise or just really erratic.

EDIT: Nah wait, I think it's just the timing is all. You can't do it as fast as you could in Brawl (where you could practically mash B to do Dancing Blade), but it's not like Melee either where you have to do it kinda slowly. I think that the heat of battle sometimes makes you press the buttons too fast, which makes it not work. Of course, lag still ****s up your timing.

Yes, the Dancing Blade is all about timing, for button mashing and for situation standards. But I'll have to correct you on Marth's Side B in Melee. Once you've mastered it you could almost go faster than you do in 4.

 

[Nah]

People like Shulk (and even Lucina and Marth) have great ranged game when they know how to use it. You just gotta be able to learn the characters weaknesses and vulnerabilities.

Shulk I can understand having a ranged game, but Lucina and Marth?.....

Yes, the Dancing Blade is all about timing, for button mashing and for situation standards. But I'll have to correct you on Marth's Side B in Melee. Once you've mastered it you could almost go faster than you do in 4.

Really? That's interesting to know.

 

[Aven]

I definitely agree that they should've brought back Roy too, but I guess they chose Lucina and Robin because they're recent. Oh well, but with Mewtwo coming back as DLC, who's to say Roy won't get the same treatment somewhere down the line? Mewtwo's return really paves the way for other characters possibly becoming DLC.

True. Mewtwo is confirmation not only that DLC can happen, but also that even characters who currently have trophies can come in as DLC. That opens up many possibilities, including for veterans like Roy or Wolf, or new characters like Captain Toad (though, he can't jump in his game and it even says so in his trophy; I wonder how that would work out in Smash) to promote recent games. I'm only using Captain Toad as an example though, because there are many other potential characters that could join the battle.

Gahhh... I haven't had enough time to go on the internet recently and look at all the Smash Hot Topic debates so I'm not sure if this is already out there, but even if it's not it soon will be.

This DLC thing can go one or two ways. The first way, which I think is the way we all thought it was going to go until Mewtwo, is that Nintendo is only going to have updates to keep bugfixes in order and to maintain the online features of the game. If we're lucky, get a few trophies for the holidays and such, but never to add a new character or create any new things such as a new gamemode.

The other way, which huge die hard fans were hoping for before Mewtwo and now have a level of certainty that it will happen, is that this is going to be the end for new Smash games and that Nintendo will continue to create new features in Smash via DLC. I think this WOULD be great, besides the fact that I think it could get out of hand-or already has gotten out of hand with Mewtwo only being free to people who own both versions of the game. It could simply get out of hand later on by adding characters and DLC that you'd have to pay for. I have no problem with DLC in games, I actually love buying extra content and extra levels. But with Smash? It would just seem like you're not getting the whole package. It's already weird at first when you don't have a certain character and you play online and see a weird bird on top of a dog.

I think it's very likely that they planned to have Mewtwo sooner and closer to Christmas as Smash for Wii U came out and it just came to be so much work they had to push it later on in the next year, and we won't be getting much extra content. I also think it's very likely that they'd want to go to something like TF2 where they just have set updates that are very large and packed with content that would take the place of making an entire new game.

Sorry for the lengthy post, but any thoughts on what you think is going to happen compared to what you would like to happen?

 

[Aven]

Shulk I can understand having a ranged game, but Lucina and Marth?.....

O_O Of course! What with Marth's tippers in Melee, keeping your distance as much as you can and taking advantage of your longer hit range is a big part in getting good with Marth. Maybe not so much Lucina, as she does tend to be more aggressive and she is faster, not to mention her attacks don't need to be as precise as Marth's to deal some damage. But Marth definitely relies on it.

 

[saifors]

I actually get dancing blade off perfectly on single player but online I can get no more than 2.
Also the DLC thing I don't expect to have crazy things making this the definitive smash because... in about 5 years Nintendo will have a new console which will also have smash eventually.
Heck Mewtwo might even be the only one.

But Roy tho... some days, I still weep... :'/

Well you could always play FE6 and you'll no longer care about him.

 

[Aven]

I actually get dancing blade off perfectly on single player but online I can get no more than 2.
Also the DLC thing I don't expect to have crazy things making this the definitive smash because... in about 5 years Nintendo will have a new console which will also have smash eventually.
Heck Mewtwo might even be the only one.

Yeah Mewtwo could be just leftover work for Nintendo or, like I said a start to something new. And Yes, Nintendo will definitely make a new system and they will definitely make a new Smash. I just meant they might go to DLC until that day. Because 5 to 10 years is a long time with the same Smash.

 

[GreenFlame]

The other way, which huge die hard fans were hoping for before Mewtwo and now have a level of certainty that it will happen, is that this is going to be the end for new Smash games and that Nintendo will continue to create new features in Smash via DLC. I think this WOULD be great, besides the fact that I think it could get out of hand-or already has gotten out of hand with Mewtwo only being free to people who own both versions of the game. It could simply get out of hand later on by adding characters and DLC that you'd have to pay for. I have no problem with DLC in games, I actually love buying extra content and extra levels. But with Smash? It would just seem like you're not getting the whole package. It's already weird at first when you don't have a certain character and you play online and see a weird bird on top of a dog.

I think it's very likely that they planned to have Mewtwo sooner and closer to Christmas as Smash for Wii U came out and it just came to be so much work they had to push it later on in the next year, and we won't be getting much extra content. I also think it's very likely that they'd want to go to something like TF2 where they just have set updates that are very large and packed with content that would take the place of making an entire new game.

Sorry for the lengthy post, but any thoughts on what you think is going to happen compared to what you would like to happen?

Yeah Mewtwo could be just leftover work for Nintendo or, like I said a start to something new. And Yes, Nintendo will definitely make a new system and they will definitely make a new Smash. I just meant they might go to DLC until that day. Because 5 to 10 years is a long time with the same Smash.

Well, Brawl was released January 31st, 2008. Smash 4 was released October 3rd, 2014. That's almost 7 years with the same Smash, and this one didn't have DLC. But now that we've got Smash 4, we DO have DLC, and patches, and updates. So this time, maybe it will go even longer.

I mean, consider how much work goes into Smash games. They have to balance, tweak, and think to make the game fun, so the amount of work required plus the fact that we've got DLC could very well mean we'll be with the Smash 4 for a long time.

But I don't think this will be the LAST Smash game. That would be very dissapointing. And I don't know if they'll do updates like TF2, because this works differently in that on 3DS they usually want to release as few downlowads as possible, meanwhile anyone playing TF2 on PC can just download updates on their PC easily and play.



Also, random thought: How would it feel to be a Smash character? I mean to actually be one of the characters inside the game, it would be painful. They get beat up all the time and Smashed around and cut with razor blades and burnt with fire etc.

 

[Aven]

Well, Brawl was released January 31st, 2008. Smash 4 was released October 3rd, 2014. That's almost 7 years with the same Smash, and this one didn't have DLC. But now that we've got Smash 4, we DO have DLC, and patches, and updates. So this time, maybe it will go even longer.

I mean, consider how much work goes into Smash games. They have to balance, tweak, and think to make the game fun, so the amount of work required plus the fact that we've got DLC could very well mean we'll be with the Smash 4 for a long time.

But I don't think this will be the LAST Smash game. That would be very dissapointing. And I don't know if they'll do updates like TF2, because this works differently in that on 3DS they usually want to release as few downlowads as possible, meanwhile anyone playing TF2 on PC can just download updates on their PC easily and play.



Also, random thought: How would it feel to be a Smash character? I mean to actually be one of the characters inside the game, it would be painful. They get beat up all the time and Smashed around and cut with razor blades and burnt with fire etc.

Yeah, that's why I'm hoping these two Smash games will be extremely good compared to the other Smash games (technically, not generally or anything... >.> Don't worry I still love Melee) by fixing bugs and errors and even fixing and polishing up some characters with updates and DLC. That way any rushed content that they didn't get to or left unfinished, they can.

But who ever knows where Nintendo will go with these things.

And yeah, that's why we don't think about video games in a realistic way often xD