Super Smash Bros. Discussion

[Dragon]

Has anyone bought the Wii U version of Smash bros.? I just got it, so, hopefully it goes better than the 3DS version. :3

 

[Aven]

So I've been hearing some nasty comments on how unfair the CPUs are at higher difficulties on the Wii U version compared to the 3DS version. I had my fair share of these brutal CPUs on Event Mode when trying to beat the last two matches on a hard difficulty.

CPU's are way too easy for me compared to Melee and Project M. So don't worry about random noobs in the Smash community that are still struggling to beat level 6's.

 

[LightBlast]

UPDATE: I've since found out that the majority of the ZSS information from that thread and my earlier post is untrue. There are many people suffering from the Placebo effect, so I advise everyone to take any of the "confirmed" information about any of the characters in that thread or anywhere else with a grain of salt, unless it's confirmed by me doing tests or another reliable source, or anyone else who has confirmed it with side-by-side tests.

Of course, none of this would be necessary if Nintendo would just release patch notes...

Can you tell us which infos got deconfirmed? Would have been great if one of my mains got buffed but I guess ZSS really was too strong for more buffs.

 

[Aven]

Oh also, I can confirm that the "rumors" about Marth were not true. He is definitely not faster and his sword is definitely not longer. I know Marth super well so yeah, he hasn't changed sadly :/

 

[GreenFlame]

Oh also, I can confirm that the "rumors" about Marth were not true. He is definitely not faster and his sword is definitely not longer. I know Marth super well so yeah, he hasn't changed sadly :/

Yeah, no changes to Marth, except for fixing that Counter glitch where Marth would be killed if he used Counter in the air after having the ledge stolen by him or something. But like I said before, the removal of vertical Vectoring seems to be a nice buff to Marth.

Can you tell us which infos got deconfirmed? Would have been great if one of my mains got buffed but I guess ZSS really was too strong for more buffs.

This is what the Smashboards thread says now about ZSS, after having the information presumably confirmed by testing (I think):
ZERO SUIT SAMUS

AIR DODGE nerf
LANDING LAG : 15 frames ⇒ 22 frames​

USMASH nerf
HITS ON : Frame 9 ⇒ Frame 11​

PARALYZER nerf
ENDING LAG : Increased​

SPREADING SHOT buff
ENDING LAG : Reduced​

 

[Aven]

Yeah, no changes to Marth, except for fixing that Counter glitch where Marth would be killed if he used Counter in the air after having the ledge stolen by him or something. But like I said before, the removal of vertical Vectoring seems to be a nice buff to Marth.


This is what the Smashboards thread says now about ZSS, after having the information presumably confirmed by testing (I think):
ZERO SUIT SAMUS

AIR DODGE nerf
LANDING LAG : 15 frames ⇒ 22 frames​

USMASH nerf
HITS ON : Frame 9 ⇒ Frame 11​

PARALYZER nerf
ENDING LAG : Increased​

SPREADING SHOT buff
ENDING LAG : Reduced​

Oh thank god! Finally! ZSS was just way too fast after she stunned you. Give a guy a chance man xD

 

[Pinkie-Dawn]

CPU's are way too easy for me compared to Melee and Project M. So don't worry about random noobs in the Smash community that are still struggling to beat level 6's.

Some of the comments were also coming from pro Smash players, so I guess it entirely depends on your skill against the CPUs.

 

[Aven]

Some of the comments were also coming from pro Smash players, so I guess it entirely depends on your skill against the CPUs.

"pro Smashers"? Like who? And trust me, if you've ever fought a level 9 Fox in Melee compared to a level 6 Fox on Project M you'll know what I'm talking about. Because a level 6 Project M Fox is better than the level 9 Melee Fox. I think most of the complaints might just be because some people aren't used to the newer strategy type characters such as Rosalina, Pac-Man and Villager. But honestly, even if they are extremely hard in Smash 4 Wii U, I'll be way more happy than sad. When has there been a time where ALL cpu levels were too hard? Not ever, but there has been a lot of times where even the highest level 9 was too easy and got boring. So I personally don't see the problem?

 

[Pinkie-Dawn]

"pro Smashers"? Like who?

The people of Smashboards, which has a thread explaining about this: https://smashboards.com/threads/is-it-just-me-or-are-cpus-way-cheaper-in-the-wii-u-version.379088/

And trust me, if you've ever fought a level 9 Fox in Melee compared to a level 6 Fox on Project M you'll know what I'm talking about. Because a level 6 Project M Fox is better than the level 9 Melee Fox.

Well of course Project M's CPU will be harder, because it's a mod. They can easily manipulate their A.I. at will.

But honestly, even if they are extremely hard in Smash 4 Wii U, I'll be way more happy than sad. When has there been a time where ALL cpu levels were too hard? Not ever, but there has been a lot of times where even the highest level 9 was too easy and got boring. So I personally don't see the problem?

This type of mentality is why I don't understand hardcore gamers. Not every game needs to be ridiculous hard like the NES/SNES days in order to be good and frown upon difficulty settings because they want rookies to have the same experience of difficulty they had when they were kids. Smash is no exception.

 

[Spinosaurus]

I don't see any pro Smasher in that thread. (Don't consider mods pro smashers, they normally aren't)

Also Project M AI is ridiculous and not fun at all, unless your idea of fun is going against a thing that has insane reactions and can counterplay you at any giving moment with no possible way of baiting and trapping it.

 

[GreenFlame]

I don't think the AI will ever be truly fun to fight, because they always have insane reactions, it's unavoidable. That's what makes up for their difficulty. In general, it's better to fight real people.



On a different subject, does anyone else think Lucina is competitively pointless while Marth exists? That's not to say she isn't competitively viable, but since she is just a direct downgrade of Marth once a player has spacing, if someone is truly playing to win in the competitive scene, there is no reason to pick her over Marth.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Yeah all Lucina has over Marth is up smash and down air. Marth is pretty much better in every other way and is SAFER on block. (and has slightly better reach because he's a little taller)

So unless you wanna handicap yourself in some way or just like the character there's no reason to pick her over Marf.

 

[Pinkie-Dawn]

But wasn't Marth's air-game and speed nerfed, whereas Lucina is suppose to be what old Marth use to be other than the lack of spacing?

 

[Nah]

Nah, the only difference between Marth and Lucina (besides appearance and voice) is Marth's tipping thing. Not sure how Marth's safer on block (or what that even means), but there's very little difference between the two.

And I can see how, in the hands of more skilled players, that Marth > Lucina. If you're really good at keeping the right amount of space between you and your opponent, Marth will always hit harder and for more damage than Lucina. What's better about Lucina than Marth on a larger scale is that she's easier to use for less competitive/skilled players since you don't have to worry about spacing/tipping at all to get the most out of her.

 

[Spinosaurus]

But wasn't Marth's air-game and speed nerfed, whereas Lucina is suppose to be what old Marth use to be other than the lack of spacing?

Absolutely untrue
https://smashboards.com/threads/before-you-ask-the-differences-between-marth-and-lucina.376180/

Nah, the only difference between Marth and Lucina (besides appearance and voice) is Marth's tipping thing. Not sure how Marth's safer on block (or what that even means), but there's very little difference between the two.

And I can see how, in the hands of more skilled players, that Marth > Lucina. If you're really good at keeping the right amount of space between you and your opponent, Marth will always hit harder and for more damage than Lucina. What's better about Lucina than Marth on a larger scale is that she's easier to use for less competitive/skilled players since you don't have to worry about spacing/tipping at all to get the most out of her.

Check the above link. It's easier to punish Lucina when you shield her attacks than you could against Marth. It's a slight difference at a glance if you look at the frame data, but those can make all the difference between winning and losing in reality.

Which means she's actually HARDER to use than Marth because she cannot be as aggressive as him and instead needs to be more patient and careful. Moreover, you don't need to hit tippers with Marth consistently, as long as you do hit it occasionally. He's easier to use, more aggressive and just plain better.

 

[Dragon]

If that's all the case, why did they even bother creating Lucina for the game? D:

 

[Nah]

https://smashboards.com/threads/before-you-ask-the-differences-between-marth-and-lucina.376180/

Check the above link. It's easier to punish Lucina when you shield her attacks than you could against Marth. It's a slight difference at a glance if you look at the frame data, but those can make all the difference between winning and losing in reality.

Which means she's actually HARDER to use than Marth because she cannot be as aggressive as him and instead needs to be more patient and careful. Moreover, you don't need to hit tippers with Marth consistently, as long as you do hit it occasionally. He's easier to use, more aggressive and just plain better.

Ooooooh, I see now. I usually never notice these subtleties. It also explains a few things I noticed while fighting with her....

If that's all the case, why did they even bother creating Lucina for the game? D:

People wanted to play as her. I know I did.

 

[Spinosaurus]

If that's all the case, why did they even bother creating Lucina for the game? D:

Filler. She was an alt skin but promoted as a playable character to pad the roster after certain unexpected cuts. She's popular enough to warrant a slot.

Why didn't they bother making her comparable to Marth is the question, really. :V

 

[GreenFlame]

Filler. She was an alt skin but promoted as a playable character to pad the roster after certain unexpected cuts. She's popular enough to warrant a slot.

Why didn't they bother making her comparable to Marth is the question, really. :V

Exactly. I kind wish she was an alt for Marth, or like you said at least comparable to him. No offense anyone, but she's got a lot more personality than Marth (who doesn't speak english). His hair was not very good in Brawl. It looks better in Smash 4, but in Brawl it looked girly and I actually wasn't sure what gender he was supposed to be when I played Brawl (I didn't know what Fire Emblem was), until I read his trophy description.

Here's Brawl Marth compared to Smash 4 Marth, and looking at the pictures, you can't blame me for thinking he was a girl...(pics from SmashWiki):

Spoiler:

Marth has more of a 'heroic' vibe than Lucina though, but in the end, both characters aren't bad. I just wish I had the option to play Lucina as an alt of Marth if I wanted to.

 

[Pinkie-Dawn]

With all of these comparisons, I have a feeling that Lucina is first in line to get the boot for the next game, as well as to make room for an FE rep from the latest installment, unless he/she suffers the same issues as Chrom.