The Final Boss Rush

[Duck]

As we all know, Red and Blue introduced the concept of an Elite Four, which, together with the Champion created a final gauntlet for the trainers to beat.

And for the most part, Pokemon seemed to keep to this formula, generations 5, 6 and 7 allowed you to do them in any order but for the most part the basic idea was the same.

That said, Generation 7 introduced the concept of a Title Defense, where you could face against other strong rivals to defend your title.

Gen 8 introduced the concept of a Finals Tourney, where you had a tourney with the rivals, and then a tourney with gym leaders (unfortunately it was always the same gym leaders, no randomizing for rematches).

While we haven't exactly seen it in the main series game as the final battle, something like Ultra Necrozma and Eternamax Dynamax could feasibly be considered as a final battle / gauntlet too. And as far as spinoffs are considered, the Mewtwo battle in Pokemon Stadium was also quite the tricky endeavor.

So my questions are:
- Which kind of final battles would you like to see in future games? The traditional "Elite Five", a tournament situation a la Gen 8, a boss battle a la Totem Pokemon / Dynamax Legendary?
- Would you like the Title Defense mechanic to return?

 

[Corveone]

The Elite Four formula was and still is practical, but it never really made much sense from a lore standpoint. Galar's tournament format was cool, but the constant interruptions and cutscenes in between battles were dumb and killed the momentum. So, I'd vote for tournament format, but without the unnecessary garbage.

Didn't care about the title defense in Gen 7, because I thought it was boring having to repeat the whole Elite Four everytime just to have a chance of facing a different trainer at the end, because it wasn't even guaranteed. Interesting idea, but I didn't like how it was implemented. And, from what I recall, the E4 levels stopped scaling after second round, which means you'd inevitably end up overlevelling unless you kept switching teams.

 

[Devalue]

1. Prefers Elite Four + Champion. Felt very confused by Galar's tournament style. Why should you have to win two tournaments? Why not make it one big tournament with gym challengers and gym leaders? Agrees to a sensible tournament as well, preferably with different possible battles on additional playthroughs.

Enjoys totem fights. Spirals out of control much faster than a trainer battle without a good counter. Would say yes to a totem fight (or two) in addition to trainers. Stipulates multiple totem battles prior to this moment, however. Ought to face a challenge reflective of your journey.

2. Feels indifferent towards Title Defense. Approves of it thematically. Saw little reason to do it. Warms up to it with better rewards.

 

[_confused_piplup_]

I am pretty mixed about this. The E4 + Champion formula was nice, the only bad thing about that imo is that you basically create four new characters that appear just in the League and have few lines of dialogue, so they miss personality. Imo one of the few (if not the only one) case where this formula worked was in gen 4 because you meet Flint before the League and after for a rematch with Volkner. And you also meet Lucian in the library after the League. In DP there's an old man that seems to be Lucian's granddad that talks just a lil bit about him. However these are all examples on how to give a little more personality to characters that basically appear just in one place and always say the same stuff. That said, I liked the idea of Tournament in gen 8. It's my fav kind of League. There are only two things that didn't convince me: firstly, the fact that since it's a tournament there are only three battles and then the champion (so it's not anymore 5 battles in total) and secondly, the fact that indeed it was too easy. Leon was ok. Some E4 were quite strong tho.
On the opposite, it just makes sense that you have to battle important characters in the story. In gen 8 you basically have three rivals. Introducing more characters, even if they are not rivals, and then including them in the final League tournament is a very nice and interesting idea. Also that would basically end the monotype teams of E4, making the battles more interesting.

On the other hand, Eternamax/ ultra necrozma battle can be considered a boss battle, but definitely is not the League. It's just a part of the story, but it doesn't give you the title of champion, which is the real end of the story. I would expect an ETernamax/ Ultra Necrozma final battle as the end of a game like PLA, where the League wasn't a thing. I mean, a game that takes place in the past or where the League doesn't exist. However, imo it's not really plausible that a League doesn't exist in a modern day region. Even Alola had one.

About Title Defense mechanic, I think it was there even in Swo/Shi. When you participate the Tournament after the League, I think in the double battles tournament (I can't remember precisely) you are basically already the champion, competing against some of the best trainers in the region. I love this concept tbh.

 

[Megan]

Pokemon games usually consist of an exploration part and a fighting part. But the endgame in particular usually only focuses on one of the two. You do your final dungeon in form of Victory Road first and only afterwards do you get all the time in the world and prepare for the league. I think a combination of the two is really interesting. You have to go through the final dungeon and on occasion you encounter one of the E4 and lastly the champion.

You could even use it as an excuse to make the actual Pokemon League location postgame content. The player gets to explore some more places, ends up in the actual area where the Pokemon League is located. And from there on out they can do the usual E4 grinding.

 

[Duck]

snip

I mean, in BW the game ends after you beat Ghetsis, not Champion Alder, so there's precedent for the story ending before you become the champion.

Which, much like Gen 8 was really an interruption to the league (but not the plot), so that's how I can see something like Ultra Necrozma or Eternamax being the final boss battle working - something happens at the last minute and you have to go and save the day.

Plus it's realistic, I guess. Like, we just had an apocalypse event / terrorist strike going on here, we're not gonna just sit here and do a Champion battle pretending that nothing happened, give some time for the dust to settle.

I'll also mention that Alola especifically had the league introduced in that game and not only that, it was also getting some kinds of pushback, it's perfectly plausible for other regions to just not have a Pokemon league and instead have their own traditional system a la the Island Trials with no "big final boss rush".

That said, I do agree that writing something like this into the story would require a lot of care to not completely kill the momentum and feel like a proper conclusion.

 

[ReKoil]

- Which kind of final battles would you like to see in future games? The traditional "Elite Five", a tournament situation a la Gen 8, a boss battle a la Totem Pokemon / Dynamax Legendary?

I kinda liked the Tournament thing, but I think that's mainly because it was different from the normal E4. Idk if I'd still enjoy it if it becomes the default instead.
I can see Totem Pokemon working here too, though more in a qualifier round setting. Like, you would need to beat a Totem Pokemon just to enter the tournament.
One thing I disliked about the tournament in Galar was the lack of new faces. You pretty much just fight people you've already beaten before until you face off against Leon.
If you meet them, but don't actually battle them during the story, I'd love to instead just face off against Trainers that are considered the strongest in that region, at random.

I'd rather not fight Legendaries during an E4 or Tournament.
The default E4 is tried and true I guess, but with some tweaks the tournament could be better.

- Would you like the Title Defense mechanic to return?
If it means rebattling the E4/Tournament/whatever all over again: no.
If you could instead just go the League/Stadium/Whatever on a daily basis and fight someone who has beaten it and wants to challenge you for the Champion title, possibly with some rewards locked behind doing this, then sure. Could be fun =3

 

[Sheep]

E4 and Champion are my ideal. I know it is an old concept now, but I have always enjoyed going through the trainers and then taking on the Champion. Am attached to it at this point, especially when Champions tend to have such awesome theme songs to look forward to later. ❤️ I usually like tournaments too but SwSh's didn't do much for me, though the music was all absolutely banger and a large part of my enjoyment. Am Alola biased so I'm down for title defense to return also.. but would be so much better if it was adjusted to be like ReKoil's suggestion!