The War on Christmas

Hmm, I think there are two questions to answer here. First of all, yeah, there is absolutely an attack on Judeo-Christian values. Just one example of that is that in Canada, Christian ministers can't read bible verses condemning homosexuality, because that is considered hate speech, and America seems to be leaning closer and closer to that as well. And not only Christian but other religions as well have their freedoms limited by "Equality Laws" that work for the acceptance of all people and walks of life. And media isn't helping much in that regard, rarely painting religion in general in a good picture.

Second, is there a war on Christmas? I would say no. Christmas has ceased to be simply a Christian holiday, but almost a national one that even those who are not religious do, which I find amusing as the origin for Christmas was even based on Christianity. Starbucks might not have written "Merry Christmas" or whatever on their cups, but there is no way in hell that anyone is going to try to get rid of Christmas because of how much money it brings in. So much money is thrown into this holiday whether it be into decoration or gifts. Tree farmers, retail organizations, even the government doesn't want to see Christmas go because of how much money it brings in for them, and money will always win.

(P.S. - My viewpoint is as a Christian who does not celebrate Christmas btw)
 
I don't understand why there's a war ONLY on Christmas and not for other holidays. You've got Thanksgiving's dark past and the recent controversy regarding Halloween costumes, but nobody takes these issues on the same level as Christmas.
 
Personally Christmas is my favourite time of year, but since saying that to a few people, I've had several people come back to me asking why I even celebrate Christmas. Admittedly I was raised as a christian so I spose I have a reason, but at the same time I think people are trying to disassociate Christmas with any kind of religion, because if you put up christmas decorations, or have your staff say merry christmas there's always going to be that one person who gets offended because they don't celebrate it or agree with the origins of Christmas.

I don't know what it's like in other places, but at least in Australia the only really noticable "war on Christmas" (and I wouldn't even really call it that) is that you don't really see the words "Merry Christmas" anymore it's always "Happy Holidays" because it's still a public holiday I guess.
 
Honestly, most holidays have dark pasts. Halloween was originally was people dressing up to disguise themselves from demons, Thanksgiving celebrated a successful slaughter of native Americans, and Christmas was Germans decorating trees with the heads of their enemies.

I don't think that there is only a war on Christmas, there are people fighting against all holidays with darker origins. Its just that every holiday brings in so much money that those arguments get buried by the press.

Although I think there is less of a war against Christmas. I feel like that's more just Starbucks not wanting to offend non-Christmas keeping people. That's not war, that's just trying not to offend anyone.
 
Hmm, I think there are two questions to answer here. First of all, yeah, there is absolutely an attack on Judeo-Christian values. Just one example of that is that in Canada, Christian ministers can't read bible verses condemning homosexuality, because that is considered hate speech, and America seems to be leaning closer and closer to that as well. And not only Christian but other religions as well have their freedoms limited by "Equality Laws" that work for the acceptance of all people and walks of life. And media isn't helping much in that regard, rarely painting religion in general in a good picture.

Second, is there a war on Christmas? I would say no. Christmas has ceased to be simply a Christian holiday, but almost a national one that even those who are not religious do, which I find amusing as the origin for Christmas was even based on Christianity. Starbucks might not have written "Merry Christmas" or whatever on their cups, but there is no way in hell that anyone is going to try to get rid of Christmas because of how much money it brings in. So much money is thrown into this holiday whether it be into decoration or gifts. Tree farmers, retail organizations, even the government doesn't want to see Christmas go because of how much money it brings in for them, and money will always win.

(P.S. - My viewpoint is as a Christian who does not celebrate Christmas btw)

We have a different approach towards rights in Canada than what they have in the United States. We treat any one right less as an assumption and are more interested in keeping that right in balance with other rights and values as outlined in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. For example, curtailing speech is justified if it is proportional to the objective of "tackling causes of discriminatory activity to reduce the harmful effects and social costs of discrimination."

I'm not sure what you mean about the claim that Christian ministers can't read bible verses condemning homosexuality. There were two major ruling about speech laws concerning homosexuality, one in 2003 and one in 2013.

Bill C-250 was passed by parliament in 2003, and is an amendment to the Criminal Code concerning hate speech. It's so short that I can quote its entirety right here:

2nd Session, 37th Parliament,
51-52 Elizabeth II, 2002-2003
HOUSE OF COMMONS OF CANADA
Bill C-250
An Act to amend the Criminal Code (hate propaganda)

R.S., c. C-46
Her Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate and House of Commons of Canada, enacts as follows:

1. Subsection 318(4) of the Criminal Code is replaced by the following:

Definition of "identifiable group"
(4) In this section, "identifiable group" means any section of the public distinguished by colour, race, religion, ethnic origin or sexual orientation.

2. Paragraph 319(3)(b) of the Act is replaced by the following:
(b) if, in good faith, the person expressed or attempted to establish by an argument an opinion on a religious subject or an opinion based on a belief in a religious text;

The first part of the act, put into context, amended the crime of hate speech to include sexual orientation as one of the "identifiable groups" covered by the law. The second part is actually a defence against hate speech - one would not be convicted of hate speech, if he or she was making a good faith argument rooted in religious belief. So it seems that Christian ministers can read bible verses condemning homosexuality, they just can't do it in a way that incites hatred or in a way that's not theologically genuine. And I've read a lot of examples of Christians condemning homosexuality that doesn't involve inciting hatred or blatant gay-bashing so that kind of speech exists and is protected.

In 2013, the Supreme Court of Canada upheld hate speech laws condemning speech that would expose certain groups to hatred. In the same stroke, they actually struck down a provision banning speech that "ridicules, belittles or otherwise affronts the dignity of" identifiable groups - basically, hurting feelings. They also added guidelines for how hate speech laws should be applied.

First, these laws must be applied objectively, which is difficult in the case of subjective emotion, though not impossible, the judges ruled. The key is to focus on the effects of hate speech, not the intent of the speaker.

Second, hate must be understood to be the extreme manifestations of the emotion described by the words "detestation" and "vilification," but nothing less.

"This filters out expression which, while repugnant and offensive, does not incite the level of abhorrence, delegitimization and rejection that risks causing discrimination or other harmful effects," they wrote.

Third, tribunals must focus their analysis on the effect of the expression at issue, namely whether it is likely to expose the targeted person or group to hatred by others.

"The repugnancy of the ideas being expressed is not sufficient to justify restricting the expression, and whether or not the author of the expression intended to incite hatred or discriminatory treatment is irrelevant. The key is to determine the likely effect of the expression on its audience, keeping in mind the legislative objectives to reduce or eliminate discrimination," they decided.

"The difficulty of establishing causality and the seriousness of the harm to vulnerable groups justifies the imposition of preventive measures that do not require proof of actual harm," the judgement reads.

Based on these legal decisions concerning homosexuality and hate speech, I cannot conclude that there is an assault on Judeo-Christian values in Canada, at least not in the legal sphere. Those decisions which you seem to cite do not involve a blanket criminalization of religious speech, as you suggest ("Christian ministers can't read bible verses condemning homosexuality, because that is considered hate speech"), but rather a fine-tuning of hate speech laws over the past decade (adding sexual orientation as a protected class, removing provisions that are unenforceable or undesirable or too broad or weak to be considered hate speech). One continues to be free to condemn homosexuality in Canada, but one cannot condemn homosexuality as the scum of the earth. I think that's a fine balance to have. Without a legal basis, whatever assault on Judeo-Christian values in Canada would have to be societal, and that is legitimate. Societies can pick and choose which values they uphold and which they reject, and if it is the case that Judeo-Christian values are being rejected, it's not like believers of Judeo-Christian religions are being substantially harmed by that.

Kind of a detour from the thread so far, but I would like to remind our readers that Canada is still a lovely place. I don't mean any of this personally, but I will call out inaccuracies where I see them.

Back on topic: if we're to talk about a potential war on Judeo-Christian values, then we have to define what these values are. "What offends me as a Christian" is not good enough. Hurt feelings, in itself, should not justify political correctness, whether it's on the left or on the right.

sauce: https://news.nationalpost.com/news/...eech-laws-in-case-involving-anti-gay-crusader
 
Last edited:
Well, thanks for the correction Kanzler. I admit I did not know the exact legality of that particular law, so that's actually good stuff to know, thank you.

As for the last thing you said, defining war on Judeo-Christian values by defining what the values are, I think the logical place to start would be the ten commandments. By Christian and Jewish definition, the Commandments are the foundation of the law, and the law upholds the values and morals of the religion. I think its less an attack directly on Christians and more societal change moving away from the values that America used to be more focused on, and moving more towards a scientific analytical view of the world and disregarding religion in most educational institutes. Its not really an attack, more just a shift of view that most of America holds, which some Christians and Jews get offended by.
 
What really drives me nuts is Donald Trump. He decides it's okay to tell people to boycott these cups. He's more worried about ****ing cups than he is about our country issues? Is that really the kind of man we want in our office? I don't get why the Christians are so offended by them. I mean, it's a cup. If you're THAT pissed off about them, just draw on them. Simple as that. It's like a two year old throwing a fit because the mom said no. My boyfriend is Christian, and he could careless about the cups. To me, all this war on Christmas **** is so stupid.
 
Man, I don't know why but I'm so active on this one.

With Donald Trump, its obviously a political move. People are upset about the cups. So Donald Trump makes a statement saying he is also upset about the cups. That's just a way for people to like him more and garner more votes. I wouldn't read into it more than that.
 
What really drives me nuts is Donald Trump. He decides it's okay to tell people to boycott these cups. He's more worried about ****ing cups than he is about our country issues? Is that really the kind of man we want in our office? I don't get why the Christians are so offended by them. I mean, it's a cup. If you're THAT pissed off about them, just draw on them. Simple as that. It's like a two year old throwing a fit because the mom said no. My boyfriend is Christian, and he could careless about the cups. To me, all this war on Christmas **** is so stupid.

I don't think it's as big an issue as people are making it out to be. I think it's more that a vocal minority is drumming it up as a major issue. As for Donald Trump...well as STARDUST said it's a political move, he likely sees it as a major thing that could get him votes and allow him to go back up in the polls.

I also don't care about the cups, they're just cups. Now, if they banned all Christmas decorations in private property...then we'll have an issue...
 
There's one element of the "war on Christmas" stuff that I agree with, and that is that the climate should be such that that business owners, employees, and customers should not feel afraid to wish each other a merry Christmas, or for that matter, any other holiday or religious greeting. If someone wishes you a happy religious holiday or some other religious greeting and that makes you uncomfortable, that's a you problem, not a them problem. If you're not religious (like me) and you don't want to return a religious phrase or greeting, then the correct response is "thank you," as regardless of the religious meaning inherent in their statement, it's generally some variation on "good fortune and be well." Really, it's more of a problem with people getting offended and demanding that people stop saying things they don't like than anything.

On the other hand, the few religious nuts complaining about this are obviously in the wrong, too. Nothing entitles you to a religious greeting, it's just that I don't think people should be attacked for or silenced from making those greetings if they want to.

Also, I don't think religious business owners should be able to force their non-religious employees to make religious greetings. That doesn't seem right to me, either.
 
Celebrate Christmas however you want to celebrate Christmas! There shouldn't be any drama between Christians or non-Christians. Im a Christian, so I will be celebrating Jesus' birthday.

If you are not religious, and someone says, "merry Christmas" to you, there is no reason to be rude about it. You may not agree with their sentiments, but that does not mean you can't say "thank you" or "merry Christmas" back. Its just the culture- follow it, or dont.

To conservatives (social conservatives): Dont complain about a biased media when you use a biased and not-factual media yourself!

As for those that are complaining about not being greeting with "merry Christmas," you need to get over it!

Again, rights > feelings. And this is coming from a devout Christian, who celebrates Christmas!
 
As sadistic as it sounds the only solution is to completely obliterate religion as a whole. People just take religion too seriously. Yeah, I believe in a "God" (not getting into details) but I keep my religious beliefs to myself and I see no problem with it. So what they got ****ing red cups? What's the problem?? I swear we ***** and complain about the stupidest **** nowadays. Everything's offending now. Let's just print off a bunch of "butthurt reports" and hand them out to everybody so they can fill them out everytime they get offended.
 
Is there seriously something such as that? Dear, fighting over a stupid red cup is... Man. Those people are seriously engaged into causes. What's the world turning to, bro.
 
There is no war on Christmas. If there was, the radios wouldn't be polluted with Christmas music from 70 years ago, there would be no Santas in the mall, the TVs wouldn't be showing saccharine Christmas movies (and 24 hours of A Christmas Story), there wouldn't be any giant Christmas trees in town squares, there wouldn't be any nativity reenactments at church, and there would be no Black Friday with people fighting over ridiculously overpriced fad toys. If anything, Christmas is shoved in everyone's face during December (and stores are often shoving it in your face even before Halloween is over). My city's already had Christmas decorations for weeks.

But, being a Muslim, Christmas is just another day of the year for me. My family just does their usual thing. Although I do give presents to my Christian friends on Christmas. Most Muslims I know aren't offended when people wish them a Merry Christmas. I'm not offended when people wish me a Merry Christmas, and I like it when my Christian friends give me presents. I have atheist friends who celebrate Christmas. People need to stop being so easily offended.

Despite my complaints, I actually like Christmas - I just don't like the Christmas commercialisation that seems to worsen every year. It really brings out the dark side of human nature.

Also, Christmas technically isn't Jesus' birthday. Jesus was probably born in March or April.
 
Last edited:
There is no war on Christmas. If there was, the radios wouldn't be polluted with Christmas music from 70 years ago, there would be no Santas in the mall, the TVs wouldn't be showing saccharine Christmas movies (and 24 hours of A Christmas Story), there wouldn't be any giant Christmas trees in town squares, there wouldn't be any nativity reenactments at church, and there would be no Black Friday with people fighting over ridiculously overpriced fad toys. If anything, Christmas is shoved in everyone's face during December (and stores are often shoving it in your face even before Halloween is over). My city's already had Christmas decorations for weeks.

But, being a Muslim, Christmas is just another day of the year for me. My family just does their usual thing. Although I do give presents to my Christian friends on Christmas. Most Muslims I know aren't offended when people wish them a Merry Christmas. I'm not offended when people wish me a Merry Christmas, and I like it when my Christian friends give me presents. I have atheist friends who celebrate Christmas. People need to stop being so easily offended.

Despite my complaints, I actually like Christmas - I just don't like the Christmas commercialisation that seems to worsen every year. It really brings out the dark side of human nature.

Also, Christmas technically isn't Jesus' birthday. Jesus was probably born in March or April.

I agree with you completely. The problem is Christmas has turned into a business scam to make tons of money rather than spending time with their family, for those that celebrate Christmas. Black Friday is for those that are greedy and aren't thankful for what they got and they seemed to have forgotten the point of Thanksgiving. I at least wait til after Black Friday to pick up a few good deals and I absolutely hate it when people go shopping on Thanksgiving.
It's the same over here, the day after Halloween there were Christmas displays everywhere and honestly it irritates me to no avail, at least wait til after Thanksgiving or something. I don't listen to the radio but I'm sure they're already airing Christmas tunes when again they should wait til after Thanksgiving.
 
I totally don't believe in the war on Christmas, or as it's so-called.

My family are Catholic converts so we do celebrate it, but we never really cared for Christmas as much lately to the point that the past couple of years saw my family being too lazy to put up Christmas decorations, let alone the tree.

As BadSheep said, celebrate Christmas the way you want to. Nobody is forcing you so just enjoy it. And as for those "controversial" Starbucks cups, I don't see anything wrong with them. I mean, it's just a cup.
 
There is no war on Christmas. If there was, the radios wouldn't be polluted with Christmas music from 70 years ago, there would be no Santas in the mall, the TVs wouldn't be showing saccharine Christmas movies (and 24 hours of A Christmas Story), there wouldn't be any giant Christmas trees in town squares, there wouldn't be any nativity reenactments at church, and there would be no Black Friday with people fighting over ridiculously overpriced fad toys. If anything, Christmas is shoved in everyone's face during December (and stores are often shoving it in your face even before Halloween is over). My city's already had Christmas decorations for weeks.

But, being a Muslim, Christmas is just another day of the year for me. My family just does their usual thing. Although I do give presents to my Christian friends on Christmas. Most Muslims I know aren't offended when people wish them a Merry Christmas. I'm not offended when people wish me a Merry Christmas, and I like it when my Christian friends give me presents. I have atheist friends who celebrate Christmas. People need to stop being so easily offended.

Despite my complaints, I actually like Christmas - I just don't like the Christmas commercialisation that seems to worsen every year. It really brings out the dark side of human nature.

Also, Christmas technically isn't Jesus' birthday. Jesus was probably born in March or April.


I agree completely! Most of Christmas has just become a game where stores try to shove the holiday down your throat so that you will buy their stuff. Its honestly pretty depressing what it has become.

And as a Christian who fundamentally disagrees with Christmas, I'm not offended by people who wish me a merry Christmas. I even work as a cashier where I am going to be pretty much expected to say it for all of December, and I don't really mind. For me its just another day, and I don't let it bother me. I think this entire thing was just cooked up because the cups used to say Merry Christmas, and now they don't, and people overreacted. There is no war on Christmas, and the capitalist holiday train wont let it stop.

Also, just a side note, Christ was actually probably born in the late summer to early fall. Probably September.
 
I find it funny that for a holiday that has lost a lot of its original sentiments and values, that the people who shallowly celebrate it are probably the ones going to such dramatic lengths over a cup... lol

I do celebrate Christmas despite being Atheist because of the ingrained tradition of it. My family always went way overboard with Christmas and it is still my favorite holiday, even if I don't celebrate the spiritual aspect of it, I still celebrate it as a chance to be with and appreciate my family.

It's also so obnoxious when someone gets defensive if a sales associate or cashier says, "Happy holidays." Like, Christmas is still a holiday so unless it somehow transcends that level then there's no reason to say, "Merry Christmas" as if they are correcting them, which I have actually heard while out shopping. It's just plain self-righteous ignorance.
 
Back
Top