• Our software update is now concluded. You will need to reset your password to log in. In order to do this, you will have to click "Log in" in the top right corner and then "Forgot your password?".
  • Welcome to PokéCommunity! Register now and join one of the best fan communities on the 'net to talk Pokémon and more! We are not affiliated with The Pokémon Company or Nintendo.

Three terrorists murder 12 people at the offices of French magazine

1,277
Posts
10
Years
  • People are going on about Islamaphobia, but I think Anti Antisemitism in Europe is a bigger issue (as high lighted in yesterdays attack on the Jewish Supermarket). Jewish people face increased hostility against them in Europe on the streets, in politics and in the media.
     

    Parivir

    rage, rage against the dying of the light.
    200
    Posts
    13
    Years
  • People are going on about Islamaphobia, but I think Anti Antisemitism in Europe is a bigger issue (as high lighted in yesterdays attack on the Jewish Supermarket). Jewish people face increased hostility against them in Europe on the streets, in politics and in the media.

    Kinda going off the rails a little bit there

    inb4 israel vs palestine posts
     
    4,181
    Posts
    10
    Years
  • Besides my Voltaire quote (which I thought was especially relevant because the guy's from Paris), I also want to say that I've had it with this backwards religion. I've tried to maintain open-mindedness about Islam, and I've tried to remain politically correct and tolerant about Islam. But as long as these tragedies continue to happen, worldwide Islamophobia will increase, and for good reason, too.

    Only way Islamophobia can be stopped is if states that support Islam stop helping these radical extremists (i.e. Qatar and Kuwait actively funds ISIS) and start actively condemning them, leading to decrease of Muslim extremists, which is obviously not going to happen in the near future. The whole religion and the states that support these violent acts in the name of Islam, are all rotten to the very core. Many of these states also advocate death penalty for imaginary crimes like apostasy and blasphemy.

    You say "terrorists are just a few bad apples," I agree to an extent, there are a lot of good muslims out there. Well, it'd be a good argument if this really was an isolated incident regarding Islam extremism. But it's clearly not. Fact that not all Muslims are bad, doesn't change the fact that many have lost their lives because of radical Islam. It also doesn't change the fact that radical Muslims are still Muslims and committed atrocities in their God's name.

    You might also say I'm hate mongering. Personally I don't see hatred of ideals that have led to barbaric killing of thousands upon thousands in the 21st century alone, necessarily a bad thing. I'm not Islam, which means I am also not bound to Islamic laws and ideals, which also means I don't have to worry about offending the Islamic deity. I also want to clarify that I have no intentions to generalize all Muslims as extremists and have not made attempts to personally attack anyone here (though this should be obvious, anyways) solely based on their Muslim faith. If you're still offended by this post, well, this is called freedom of speech, deal with it.

    "Religion of peace" my ass.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamic_terrorist_attacks
     

    Masterge77

    Robot Mienshao
    1,084
    Posts
    16
    Years
  • It seems like for a while that freedom of speech has been getting attacked, since it is by all means a basic human right. Last month we had The Interview controversy in which a movie was pulled out of theaters because of threats from North Korean hackers over the film's depiction of Kim Jong-Un, to which anything defiling one of their dictators puts you in prison, even if you crumple up a newspaper with their picture or spill coffee on a portrait of them. Muslims are no different to any depiction of the prophet Muhammad, where in many Islamic states, just drawing him, even a picture praising the prophet puts you in prison (or worse) because they believe that ANYTHING that brings up the prophet allegedly defiles him and Islam as a whole. The main difference between the Sony hack and the Charlie Hebdo attacks was the fact that at least nobody died during the Sony hacking despite death threats.

    Personally, I think Islam gets far too much scorn simply because of the actions of terrorists, but it didn't start with 9/11, but long before that with the Crusades and the fact that early Caliphates believed that anyone and everyone who wasn't a Muslim was inferior to them, acting like typical empires with paranoid and xenophobic beliefs towards the outside world. Were the Romans no different, were the Mongols no different, were the Spanish no different, were the Nazis no different? It's typical empire logic to impose ones culture and religion on other, smaller nations and societies.

    The problem is that many current Muslim countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia seem to want to remain in the golden days and end up refusing to live in the modern world in beliefs that western Christian beliefs dominate it, all while using Sharia law to justify their means of constant human-rights violations like stoning, beheading, and lashing anyone who disagrees with them because that is what it was like in the days when Muhammad and his successors and that things shouldn't be changed be they for better or for worse. Because of the laws of regimes like this, this leads to the creation of terrorist groups like Hamas, Al-Qaeda and ISIS, with their "I'm right and everyone else is wrong" logic that the entire world must go their way, so they attack other nations in hopes of imposing their laws on the people who criticize them, which only gives them negative attention.

    Keep in mind that when Islam was first founded by Muhammad, the Christian world had been divided into many sects in no part to the collapse of the Roman Empire with the split between the Catholic and Orthodox Churches along with other sects of Christianity coming into existence (Copticism, Armenian Christianity, etc.) and Muhammad was said to be asked by God to unite the people of the Arab peninsula into a single religion. Muhammad actually never named a successor, but his followers wanted either his father or son to be his successor, which caused the split between Sunni and Shia Islam, and the Sunnis decided to spread word about their faith in violent ways.

    And this leads us into the Islamophobia of many people in the west, caused by events like 9/11, Benghazi, and this. I'm not pro-Islamic or anti-Islamic, but it sickens me that some people generalize that all Muslims are terrorists. I have met people who act like all Muslims are terrorists and that they should leave the US because they think Muslims cannot be trusted, and this reminds me somewhat of the racist things Adolf Hitler said about the Jews. Why should Islam as a whole be punished simply because of the actions of previous Islamic rulers and terrorist groups? Maybe their faith is different than those of Christians and Jews, but they shouldn't be punished. Again, I am not pro or anti-Islamic, but even the Muslims who aren't terrorists shouldn't be punished for their actions.

    Christians, Muslims, Jews... doesn't matter what their faith, doesn't matter what their beliefs, doesn't matter what their appearance, age, sex, or skin color is, we are all human beings, and we are all born with the same rights and freedoms. It's just that some people fail to understand this because they have the logic that they are right and refuse to have an open mind on anything. No faith is superior to another, no race is superior to another, we are all human beings and we should learn to understand that.
     
    458
    Posts
    10
    Years
  • My in-laws were in Paris at the time of the shootings, thankfully on the other side of the city.

    That aside, while it wasn't as bad as it could have been, could it not have been better? As I mentioned above Charlie Hebdo was no stranger to being attacked due to the offensive nature of the satire that they produce. They had increased security, but clearly it was not enough to protect its employees. They were supposed to be under some sort of police watch, but the first police officers on scene were unarmed and as a result died like sheep. I'm not saying it would have gone any different had the officers been armed, but its always a possibility that if stronger precautions were taken this could have ended with much less blood shed. I'm also not saying this would be the best solution, but from what I understand gun control is relatively tight over there. What if, the employees were licensed to carry a firearm and trained in the use of it?

    Civilians with guns doesn't solve the problem - you just make guns more accessible, including to other extremists who don't have links to the black market. A more pressing question would be why the police officers didn't have firearms - that just seems foolish.
     

    Her

    11,468
    Posts
    15
    Years
    • Seen yesterday
    Besides my Voltaire quote (which I thought was especially relevant because the guy's from Paris), I also want to say that I've had it with this backwards religion. I've tried to maintain open-mindedness about Islam, and I've tried to remain politically correct and tolerant about Islam. But as long as these tragedies continue to happen, worldwide Islamophobia will increase, and for good reason, too.

    Only way Islamophobia can be stopped is if states that support Islam stop helping these radical extremists (i.e. Qatar and Kuwait actively funds ISIS) and start actively condemning them, leading to decrease of Muslim extremists, which is obviously not going to happen in the near future. The whole religion and the states that support these violent acts in the name of Islam, are all rotten to the very core. Many of these states also advocate death penalty for imaginary crimes like apostasy and blasphemy.

    You say "terrorists are just a few bad apples," I agree to an extent, there are a lot of good muslims out there. Well, it'd be a good argument if this really was an isolated incident regarding Islam extremism. But it's clearly not. Fact that not all Muslims are bad, doesn't change the fact that many have lost their lives because of radical Islam. It also doesn't change the fact that radical Muslims are still Muslims and committed atrocities in their God's name.

    You might also say I'm hate mongering. Personally I don't see hatred of ideals that have led to barbaric killing of thousands upon thousands in the 21st century alone, necessarily a bad thing. I'm not Islam, which means I am also not bound to Islamic laws and ideals, which also means I don't have to worry about offending the Islamic deity. I also want to clarify that I have no intentions to generalize all Muslims as extremists and have not made attempts to personally attack anyone here (though this should be obvious, anyways) solely based on their Muslim faith. If you're still offended by this post, well, this is called freedom of speech, deal with it.

    "Religion of peace" my ass.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamic_terrorist_attacks

    this post made me exclaim 'Jinkies...' irl
    I don't know what there is to say in response to this aside from I hope you reconsider your thoughts soon.
     

    ANARCHit3cht

    Call me Archie!
    2,145
    Posts
    15
    Years
    • Seen Sep 25, 2020
    My in-laws were in Paris at the time of the shootings, thankfully on the other side of the city.



    Civilians with guns doesn't solve the problem - you just make guns more accessible, including to other extremists who don't have links to the black market. A more pressing question would be why the police officers didn't have firearms - that just seems foolish.

    Tell me what the response time of a trained civilian with a weapon is? And the response time of an officer? Those few minutes could save lives. And I never did say that would be a particular solution, merely that at least they'd have the option to defend themselves.

    And you don't need a "black market" to get an illegal weapon. It's actually quite easy.
     

    Masterge77

    Robot Mienshao
    1,084
    Posts
    16
    Years
  • I would like to point out a common misconception. While a large portion of Muslim countries forbid ANY depiction of Muhammad, the Quran actually does NOT state anything about prohibiting any depiction the prophet, especially since numerous Muslim artists have drawn artwork of the prophet over the course of centuries. This is a more recent invention that came into existence in later centuries, possibly as a result of paranoia of spreading western ideas and xenophobia that many Muslims are against for whatever reason they have.

    So, just to clarify things, any picture of Muhammad is pretty much okay by the Quran. It's just the Hadith that has a problem with it, which claims that the depiction of ANY living creature that's not for educational purposes is forbidden, let alone Muhammad. Taliban ISIS terrorists actually destroyed statues and covered the faces of mannequins because of what the Hadith says. Keep in mind that a significant portion of Muslims today do not accept the Hadith and only the Quran, citing many verses from the Quran to support their arguments.

    Another thing, which is often used by anti-Islamic individuals as an argument to complain about Muslims, is the fact there are a 109 versus that call for the mutilations, stoning, beheadings, and killing of anyone who isn't a Muslim (specifically Jews and Christians), which, also to note, is similar to events in the past involving Christian groups like the Romans enforcing their religion on others, and forced conversion to another religion is not uncommon, though radical Muslims take things too seriously.
     
    Last edited:
    4,181
    Posts
    10
    Years
  • this post made me exclaim 'Jinkies...' irl
    I don't know what there is to say in response to this aside from I hope you reconsider your thoughts soon.
    I will reconsider when Islamic countries start respecting freedom of speech and basic human rights.

    Until then, I'm sorry.
     

    Her

    11,468
    Posts
    15
    Years
    • Seen yesterday
    I will reconsider when Muslim countries start respecting freedom of speech and basic human rights.

    Until then, I'm sorry.

    Zoinks
    Generalising the Muslim population doesn't do any good for anyone.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Tek

    Lawandorder

    ¡Gracias Totales!
    24
    Posts
    9
    Years
  • I will reconsider when Islamic countries start respecting freedom of speech and basic human rights.

    Until then, I'm sorry.
    Right, because their politics (however bad they may be) justify you condemning one of the world's largest religión based in the action of some radicals... Right, gonna leave you meditate for a bit about your line of thought, hopefully you'll realize by yourself why is wrong.
     

    twocows

    The not-so-black cat of ill omen
    4,307
    Posts
    15
    Years
  • I would like to point out a common misconception. While a large portion of Muslim countries forbid ANY depiction of Muhammad, the Quran actually does NOT state anything about prohibiting any depiction the prophet, especially since numerous Muslim artists have drawn artwork of the prophet over the course of centuries. This is a more recent invention that came into existence in later centuries, possibly as a result of paranoia of spreading western ideas and xenophobia that many Muslims are against for whatever reason they have.
    The way it was told to me, the point of not drawing depictions of the prophet was so that he wasn't idolized or put on a pedestal. He was merely the prophet of the lord, not the lord himself (as Christians believe Jesus to be), and thus he wasn't deserving of worship. The point of not depicting him was to remind Muslims that they should be worshipping the lord and not the prophet. I have no idea if this is true or not, but it makes a lot of sense to me. And if it's true, it's pretty ironic considering the outcome of that practice.
     

    Lizardo

    Public Enemy
    290
    Posts
    10
    Years
    • Seen Aug 18, 2016
    Besides my Voltaire quote (which I thought was especially relevant because the guy's from Paris), I also want to say that I've had it with this backwards religion. I've tried to maintain open-mindedness about Islam, and I've tried to remain politically correct and tolerant about Islam. But as long as these tragedies continue to happen, worldwide Islamophobia will increase, and for good reason, too.
    There's no good reason for Islamophobia, or trying to justify it. If we ever got up to seriously discussing atrocities committed by certain other nationalities (i.e. Europeans, France very much included), ethnicities (i.e. whites), and religious groups (i.e. Christians) in the last few centuries, we'd be here forever - and yet they're never used to speak for those groups at large, despite being equally, if not more so, prevalent. Terrorist attacks like these are awful, and using them to promote bigotry is equally so. Moreover, your line of reasoning here is not only backwards, it's very dangerous and I would suggest thinking seriously about what you're saying here. In the West, one wouldn't get away with suggesting that there's a good reason for anti-white or anti-Christian backlash at large when their extremists commit terrorist attacks. Likewise, one shouldn't suggest that there's a good reason for Islamophobia when extremists from those groups do the same.
     

    Parivir

    rage, rage against the dying of the light.
    200
    Posts
    13
    Years
  • Besides my Voltaire quote (which I thought was especially relevant because the guy's from Paris), I also want to say that I've had it with this backwards religion. I've tried to maintain open-mindedness about Islam, and I've tried to remain politically correct and tolerant about Islam. But as long as these tragedies continue to happen, worldwide Islamophobia will increase, and for good reason, too.

    Only way Islamophobia can be stopped is if states that support Islam stop helping these radical extremists (i.e. Qatar and Kuwait actively funds ISIS) and start actively condemning them, leading to decrease of Muslim extremists, which is obviously not going to happen in the near future. The whole religion and the states that support these violent acts in the name of Islam, are all rotten to the very core. Many of these states also advocate death penalty for imaginary crimes like apostasy and blasphemy.

    You say "terrorists are just a few bad apples," I agree to an extent, there are a lot of good muslims out there. Well, it'd be a good argument if this really was an isolated incident regarding Islam extremism. But it's clearly not. Fact that not all Muslims are bad, doesn't change the fact that many have lost their lives because of radical Islam. It also doesn't change the fact that radical Muslims are still Muslims and committed atrocities in their God's name.

    You might also say I'm hate mongering. Personally I don't see hatred of ideals that have led to barbaric killing of thousands upon thousands in the 21st century alone, necessarily a bad thing. I'm not Islam, which means I am also not bound to Islamic laws and ideals, which also means I don't have to worry about offending the Islamic deity. I also want to clarify that I have no intentions to generalize all Muslims as extremists and have not made attempts to personally attack anyone here (though this should be obvious, anyways) solely based on their Muslim faith. If you're still offended by this post, well, this is called freedom of speech, deal with it.

    "Religion of peace" my ass.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamic_terrorist_attacks

    This is. I just. what

    So by your logic, every Jew in the world should know take up a sledgehammer and smash every German head in for what their ancestors did in the holocaust? Because that's about how related the majority of muslims are to these extremists, carrying out actions that we disagree with as much as you do. Indonesia condemns the incident, as does Malaysia. And Iran, and Hamas, and Turkey; the list goes on. These extremists view us as heretics and have openly declared war on a number of Islamic countries; why are people still treating us as if we're on the same side? We're not! ISIS is not Islam, terrorism is not Islam, their ideals are not our ideals. Now would you please stop lumping us together?

    Yes I realize I sound butthurt and offended (that's because I am). I You're saying you're not generalizing muslims or whatever, but you're denouncing the entire religion anyway, because some people did stuff neither you nor the muslim populace at large agree with? I'm sorry, that just makes no sense to me.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/07/muslims-respond-charlie-hebdo_n_6429710.html
    https://www.opposingviews.com/i/islam-does-not-promote-violence
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...rab-states-jihadi-extremist-sympathisers-isis
     
    Last edited:
    4,181
    Posts
    10
    Years
  • Zoinks
    Generalising the Muslim population doesn't do any good for anyone.
    "I also want to clarify that I have no intentions to generalize all Muslims as extremists and have not made attempts to personally attack anyone here (though this should be obvious, anyways) solely based on their Muslim faith."

    Right, because their politics (however bad they may be) justify you condemning one of the world's largest religión based in the action of some radicals... Right, gonna leave you meditate for a bit about your line of thought, hopefully you'll realize by yourself why is wrong.
    1. Islam is second largest religion in the world, but that's besides the point.
    2. I don't subscribe to the idea that I can't condemn something because it's popular.
    3. "It's just the action of some radicals" Consider the following:

    Three terrorists murder 12 people at the offices of French magazine

    Three terrorists murder 12 people at the offices of French magazine

    Source: https://www.pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims-around-the-world-divided-on-hamas-and-hezbollah/

    Depends on what your definition of "some" is, but even 20-30%, hell, even 5% that often/sometimes support suicide bombing is frankly appalling, and we don't even have data here about Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc.

    There's no good reason for Islamophobia, or trying to justify it. If we ever got up to seriously discussing atrocities committed by certain other nationalities (i.e. Europeans, France very much included), ethnicities (i.e. whites), and religious groups (i.e. Christians) in the last few centuries, we'd be here forever - and yet they're never used to speak for those groups at large, despite being equally, if not more so, prevalent. Terrorist attacks like these are awful, and using them to promote bigotry is equally so. Moreover, your line of reasoning here is not only backwards, it's very dangerous and I would suggest thinking seriously about what you're saying here. In the West, one wouldn't get away with suggesting that there's a good reason for anti-white or anti-Christian backlash at large when their extremists commit terrorist attacks. Likewise, one shouldn't suggest that there's a good reason for Islamophobia when extremists from those groups do the same.
    Personally I don't subscribe to Islamophobia (if you're talking it to mean hating Muslims) and I won't, but I don't blame people from becoming one as long as these events continue to happen.

    I've already said I don't hate Muslims. What I do hate, is the backwards fundamentalism of Islam that has hampered social progress in the Middle East. Look up Raif Badawi, a journalist who has been condemned to 10 years in prison and 1000 lashes for the heinous crime of... blasphemy. It's complete lunacy. Do you ever see that happening in a Christian country today?

    Yes, extremists from other groups have done some messed up things, too. And I'm not here as an apologist for that. But those actions now are actively condemned by religious leaders in most other popular religions. same can't be said for Islam.
     

    Lizardo

    Public Enemy
    290
    Posts
    10
    Years
    • Seen Aug 18, 2016
    Personally I don't subscribe to Islamophobia (if you're talking it to mean hating Muslims) and I won't, but I don't blame people from becoming one as long as these events continue to happen.
    That's why added the bit, "... or justify it", which is what you admit that you're doing. Justifying the blind hatred of an entire religious group because of something extremists did is just as bad as being one of those people. And it's a dangerous mindset for people to have because it emboldens them.

    I've already said I don't hate Muslims. What I do hate, is the backwards fundamentalism of Islam that has hampered social progress in the Middle East. Look up Raif Badawi, a journalist who has been condemned to 10 years in prison and 1000 lashes for the heinous crime of... blasphemy. It's complete lunacy. Do you ever see that happening in a Christian country today?
    I'm not saying that you hate Muslims, I don't know you, but I am saying that you're justifying a backwards, dangerous mindset (Islamaphobia) that is not limited to the extremists who commit terrorist attacks such as these but all Muslims.

    You can't say something like "I don't blame people for becoming one" (and Islamaphobe) and then try to narrow that down to a select few on the fringe. As far as the current situation for the Middle East goes, it's an oversimplification to blame it entirely on Islamic fundamentalism. The Western countries, including the United States, have done their part in destabilizing the region, promoting fundamentalism (e.g. the alliance between the U.S. and the fundamentalist Saudi Arabian government that you're criticizing here) and growing terrorism there.

    Yes, extremists from other groups have done some messed up things, too. And I'm not here as an apologist for that. But those actions now are actively condemned by religious leaders in most other popular religions. same can't be said for Islam.
    Muslims have condemned the Paris incident: https://rudaw.net/english/world/10012015. They've also condemned extremist groups like ISIS, too.

    But this is besides the point. If the Ku Klux Klan, a white supremacist terrorist organization that claims to be Christian, isn't representative of all American Christians or Christianity as a whole then Muslim terrorists aren't representative of all of Islam. Therefore, Islamaphobia isn't justifiable. An entire group of people don't need to take responsibility for what extremists do, and shouldn't be judged on their actions.
     
    4,181
    Posts
    10
    Years
  • This is. I just. what

    So by your logic, every Jew in the world should know take up a sledgehammer and smash every German head in for what their ancestors did in the holocaust? Because that's about how related the majority of muslims are to these extremists, carrying out actions that we disagree with as much as you do. Indonesia condemns the incident, as does Malaysia. And Iran, and Hamas, and Turkey; the list goes on. These extremists view us as heretics and have openly declared war on a number of Islamic countries; why are people still treating us as if we're on the same side? We're not! ISIS is not Islam, terrorism is not Islam, their ideals are not our ideals. Now would you please stop lumping us together?

    Yes I realize I sound butthurt and offended (that's because I am). I You're saying you're not generalizing muslims or whatever, but you're denouncing the entire religion anyway, because some people did stuff neither you nor the muslim populace at large agree with? I'm sorry, that just makes no sense to me.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/07/muslims-respond-charlie-hebdo_n_6429710.html
    https://www.opposingviews.com/i/islam-does-not-promote-violence
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...rab-states-jihadi-extremist-sympathisers-isis

    If you're looking for case-by-case examples, here are some counter-examples where Muslims are against support for Charlie Hebdo. Works both ways, but doesn't get us anywhere useful, in my opinion anyways.

    https://www.businessinsider.com/leaked-al-jazeera-emails-and-charlie-hebdo-2015-1
    https://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/W...oices-in-Charlie-Hebdo-shooting-attack-387365

    I also have this to say: Religious moderates are born when they condemn the radicals for the radical actions but support the core of their beliefs (i.e. Islam). It's easy to claim that they support different religion because they are at odds, but make no mistake, they both support Islam. My criticism here is on Islam, not the Muslims. And again, just because a belief is popular doesn't mean it's right.

    That's why added the bit, "... or justify it", which is what you admit that you're doing. Justifying the blind hatred of an entire religious group because of something extremists did is just as bad as being one of those people. And it's a dangerous mindset for people to have because it emboldens them.

    I'm not saying that you hate Muslims, I don't know you, but I am saying that you're justifying a backwards, dangerous mindset (Islamaphobia) that is not limited to the extremists who commit terrorist attacks such as these but all Muslims.

    You can't say something like "I don't blame people for becoming one" (and Islamaphobe) and then try to narrow that down to a select few on the fringe. As far as the current situation for the Middle East goes, it's an oversimplification to blame it entirely on Islamic fundamentalism. The Western countries, including the United States, have done their part in destabilizing the region, promoting fundamentalism (e.g. the alliance between the U.S. and the fundamentalist Saudi Arabian government that you're criticizing here) and growing terrorism there.
    I think the problem here is definition of Islamophobia. You're taking it to mean hatred of Muslims, and I'm taking it to mean hatred of Islam. Which both are plausiable definitions. I think a more consistent definition of Islamophobia needs to be established in order for us to discuss this further.

    Though, if problem with Islamic world today is the radical fundamentalists, then maybe, just maybe, there's something wrong with the fundamentals.

    But this is besides the point. If the Ku Klux Klan, a white supremacist terrorist organization that claims to be Christian, isn't representative of all American Christians or Christianity as a whole then Muslim terrorists aren't representative of all of Islam. Therefore, Islamaphobia isn't justifiable. An entire group of people don't need to take responsibility for what extremists do, and shouldn't be judged on their actions.
    KKK is nowhere as relevant as it was (and yes, I know it's still around), especially compared to radical Muslims today.

    And if it was still largely relevant today then yes, I would denounce Christianity for it. However, I won't extend this to denounce Christians.
     
    5,983
    Posts
    15
    Years
  • What's your criticism on Islam then? I don't think you've discussed what you thought of the religion at all, only what you think of its adherents.
     

    Lawandorder

    ¡Gracias Totales!
    24
    Posts
    9
    Years
  • 1. Islam is second largest religion in the world, but that's besides the point.
    When did I say otherwise?
    2. I don't subscribe to the idea that I can't condemn something because it's popular.
    No, what you don't get to do is dissmiss an entire religion and it's billions of practicioners on the basis of what a few thousand radicals do, it'd be as if I were to condemn the entirery of christianism based on the actions of some radicals (Anders Breivik, Lord's resistance army, national liberation front, etc; do any of these ring a bell? )

    Personally I don't subscribe to Islamophobia (if you're talking it to mean hating Muslims) and I won't, but I don't blame people from becoming one as long as these events continue to happen.
    This is one of the stupidest things I've read in years, especially when you go on to say that:
    I also have this to say: Religious moderates are born when they condemn the radicals for the radical actions but support the core of their beliefs (i.e. Islam).
    Your own words condemn you as an islamophobe, and I think I don't even need to dwelve in reasons for why that is wrong, but think, would you like to be discriminated against because of the actions of people you share nothing with besides your religion? ...

    I've already said I don't hate Muslims. What I do hate, is the backwards fundamentalism of Islam that has hampered social progress in the Middle East. Look up Raif Badawi, a journalist who has been condemned to 10 years in prison and 1000 lashes for the heinous crime of... blasphemy.

    What I do hate, is the backwards fundamentalism of Christianity that has hampered social progress in all of Europe. Look up any of the millions of people wrongfully executed under christianity on the Middle Ages, It's complete lunacy.
    Not so fun when reminded of your religion's history, right? Also, have you actually read the Bible? It's as full of backwards stupidity as any other religion.

    It's complete lunacy. Do you ever see that happening in a Christian country today?
    Well, US does have over a hundred people unlawfully detained (many on foreing countries that were not even aware of the US operating there) on an out of country military base while dennying they qualify for the protection of the geneva conventions and does not plan on ever releasing them or to actually charge them with something, so yeah, not only I could see it happening, it has been happening for years now.

    Yes, extremists from other groups have done some messed up things, too. And I'm not here as an apologist for that. But those actions now are actively condemned by religious leaders in most other popular religions. same can't be said for Islam.
    Yes it can, most muslim leaders do condemn terrorist attacks and the like, however if you just look for validation of your thoughts that's what you're going to find, the few islamic radical leaders that praise these attacks.
     
    Last edited by a moderator:
    Back
    Top