Chit-Chat: Welcome to the Strategies & Movesets forum for Sun & Moon!

[Garlana]

You'll need something for Rotom-Wash. Not many ways of dealing with it on mono Flying teams. Maybe Lum Berry or RestTalk Dragonite? Or Thundurus-Therian since it can abuse Volt Switch spam. Be sure to fit in a Defogger too.


End of an era.

Thanks for the response! will look at these options.

 

[Polar Spectrum]

The fact that Heracross is 4 x weak to flying in a meta with things like Mega Pinsir and Talonflame, and fighting/bug in the post-fairy meta - but still viable already says a lot about it. Mega Hera does actually have quite substantial bulk btw; but again if you care about speed at all, Le Nope

I enjoy running a heracross in doubles on occasion. Moxie on it so it gets distracting to opponents. On one set. The other is the typical guts.

Guts Heracross is terrifying, no lie

 

[Pendraflare]

Mega Heracross is one of those things that just wishes it had more to use. As Arm Thrust is only as powerful as a Brick Break, that's not very good. Pin Missile could be decent though, 5 more power than Megahorn with every hit and it can break substitutes. I know that people liked Scarf Moxie Heracross in Generation V.

 

[PlatinumDude]

Mega Heracross is one of those things that just wishes it had more to use. As Arm Thrust is only as powerful as a Brick Break, that's not very good. Pin Missile could be decent though, 5 more power than Megahorn with every hit and it can break substitutes. I know that people liked Scarf Moxie Heracross in Generation V.

Just because Heracross gained Arm Thrust this gen doesn't mean it should use it. Close Combat is, and always will be the better option because not only is CC significantly stronger than Arm Thrust, but the latter triggers Iron Barbs/Rocky Helmet 5 times in a row.

 

[Polar Spectrum]

In my opinion rock blast is the most significant thing Mega Heracross has over normal. Sure they can both use it, but when mega heracross uses it, it's a 125 base power rock attack with 90 accuracy every time :I Nobody else has that; coupled with the HIGHEST BASE ATTACK STAT OF LITERALLY ANYTHING. (sigh okay yes besides mega mewtwo x, but really?) Seriously; mega heracross has a raw attck stat higher than PRIMAL GROUND. AND mega Rayquaza. Yes, based solely on their attack stat, mega hera can hit harder than the thing that broke the ubers tier. Sure, that's just one aspect and it's not backed by the speed even normal heracross has, but it's there. 185 monstrous base; and what's basically the most powerful for its accuracy rock move in the game. Plus yknow close combat and the strongest base power bug move in the game to boot.

Mega heracross is a damn sledgehammer. It's powerful blunt and raw, and theoretically very damaging even if it's outclassed by a bunch of other things in a fight. But if you take one to the forehead, it's still going to kill you. The trick is to just be able to fucking hit something with it.


Anywho that asides, I hear murmurs that the swag lords are looking at Aegislash and Talonflame for - things

 

[Pendraflare]

Just because Heracross gained Arm Thrust this gen doesn't mean it should use it. Close Combat is, and always will be the better option because not only is CC significantly stronger than Arm Thrust, but the latter triggers Iron Barbs/Rocky Helmet 5 times in a row.

That's…kind of exactly the point I was trying to make? Well, except that last mentioning.

And Rock Blast with 125 power and 90 accuracy is nice too, and I already mentioned Pin Missile…

 

[2Fruit]

So I did some calcs and it turns out Conkeldurr actually hits HARDER than Mega Rayquaza:

252+ Atk Choice Band Guts Conkeldurr Reversal (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 258-306 (145.7 - 172.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Mega Rayquaza V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 126-148 (71.1 - 83.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Conkeldurr also gets focus punch, which does a little less damage. But even if Rayquaza was part fire type for STAB, it is still out damaged, thanks to guts. And V create is Rayquaza's highest BP attack.

 

[PlatinumDude]

So I did some calcs and it turns out Conkeldurr actually hits HARDER than Mega Rayquaza:

252+ Atk Choice Band Guts Conkeldurr Reversal (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 258-306 (145.7 - 172.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Mega Rayquaza V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 126-148 (71.1 - 83.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Conkeldurr also gets focus punch, which does a little less damage. But even if Rayquaza was part fire type for STAB, it is still out damaged, thanks to guts. And V create is Rayquaza's highest BP attack.

Even though Conkeldurr gets Focus Punch and Reversal, it can't use them effectively. Conkeldurr's low Speed means that it can't use Reversal well. While it also gets SubPunch, Infiltrator users and sound moves still bypass it.

 

[gameguy11]

So I did some calcs and it turns out Conkeldurr actually hits HARDER than Mega Rayquaza:

252+ Atk Choice Band Guts Conkeldurr Reversal (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 258-306 (145.7 - 172.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Mega Rayquaza V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 126-148 (71.1 - 83.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Conkeldurr also gets focus punch, which does a little less damage. But even if Rayquaza was part fire type for STAB, it is still out damaged, thanks to guts. And V create is Rayquaza's highest BP attack.

Additionally, with conk holding a choice band it has no reliable way of activating guts

 

[2Fruit]

It's not that tough if you predict a status. And I know this situation would be near impossible in a real battle, I thought it would be intresting to show how a normal pokemon can hit harder than the strongest pokemon in the game.

 

[gameguy11]

It's not that tough if you predict a status. And I know this situation would be near impossible in a real battle, I thought it would be intresting to show how a normal pokemon can hit harder than the strongest pokemon in the game.

True :p if it interests you, I believe that there was an explanation of how a shuckle can have the strongest single hit in the game (doing the most damage) the situation though is near impossible

 

[KorpiklaaniVodka]

So I did some calcs and it turns out Conkeldurr actually hits HARDER than Mega Rayquaza:

252+ Atk Choice Band Guts Conkeldurr Reversal (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 258-306 (145.7 - 172.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Mega Rayquaza V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 126-148 (71.1 - 83.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Conkeldurr also gets focus punch, which does a little less damage. But even if Rayquaza was part fire type for STAB, it is still out damaged, thanks to guts. And V create is Rayquaza's highest BP attack.

I can post calcs, too!

252 Atk Refrigerate Mega Glalie Explosion vs. 128 HP / 0 Def Primal Groudon: 331-391 (88.7 - 104.8%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 128 HP / 0 Def Primal Groudon: 274-324 (73.4 - 86.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[Polar Spectrum]

^ Seems a bit snide, buuuut yeah I make fun of posting calcs in general so I can't really comment lol

The explanation for shuckle being able to deal the highest potential damage is accurate too. If it gets baton passed +6 Attack, while being max def with EV, IV, nature etc - while holding a metronme, uses Power Trick to swap its Atk and Def stats, then uses rollout the consecutive damage from rollout plus metronome builds it up to a base power that combined with hitting a yanma with the lowest stats possible for physical bulk taking the 4 x effective hit; causes the numerically highest damge potential in the game, of all possible pokemon moves in any given scenario.

But again yeah that's a nigh impossible hypothetical scenario. It's just the record holder for highest -potential-.

 

[Anti]

I can post calcs, too!

252 Atk Refrigerate Mega Glalie Explosion vs. 128 HP / 0 Def Primal Groudon: 331-391 (88.7 - 104.8%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 128 HP / 0 Def Primal Groudon: 274-324 (73.4 - 86.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

wait a minute...

Spoiler:

First of all:

SALAMENCE'S DROP IN VIABILITY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH FAIRY-TYPE POKEMON.

Lots and lots of players seem to think this Pokemon is bad because of Fairies. Have you guys heard of a move called Iron Tail? I'm sure you did. Well, this move allows Mence to LOL at any Fairy-type not named Azumarill. Yes, I know it's inaccurate, but Gunk Shot (with an unimpressive 80% acc) sent Greninja to Ubers. That's because it was able to turn the tables on all the fairy-type Pokemon which could check it prior to ORAS. Focus Blast turned Gengar into a top threat in Gen 4 and 5. Same with Salamence, after a Dragon Dance boost, no fairy bar Azu is safe. Now you could argue that ScarfMoxieMence has taken a hit in viability, but it's not like you could spam Outrage from the get-go in BW anyway, due to Steels being everywhere. So yeah, fairies can annoy Mence a bit, but it's not like it can't adapt. And to be fair, even Azumarill takes huge damage!

You still don't believe me?

+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Salamence Earthquake vs. 88 HP / 4 Def Azumarill: 287-338 (79 - 93.1%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (Yes.)
+1 252+ Atk Salamence Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 384-454 (102.6 - 121.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Salamence Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 421-497 (106.8 - 126.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO (unaware still gets 2HKOed)
+1 252+ Atk Salamence Iron Tail vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Mega Gardevoir: 506-596 (182.6 - 215.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Salamence Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 340-402 (141 - 166.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Salamence Iron Tail vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Sylveon: 455-536 (116 - 136.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Salamence Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Klefki: 348-411 (109.7 - 129.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Salamence Iron Tail vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Altaria: 294-348 (100.6 - 119.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

???????????

lol but anyway, no need for such a snide reply :|

 

[skyburial]

Fun Fact, that Refrigerate-Boosted Explosion has been this season's signature move for James Baek, one of the rising stars in VGC. He's a total sweetheart and a true player's player. I hope to play him soon.

 

[Polar Spectrum]

Sky Berries is too modest to say it but he's going to Regionals for VGC, and he's just completed his first week of battles going 8-2.


Using a specially defensive support Lucario. :")

 

[skyburial]

Sky Berries is too modest to say it but he's going to Regionals for VGC, and he's just completed his first week of battles going 8-2.


Using a specially defensive support Lucario. :")

It was a good night in the International Challenge, hopefully I can keep up my momentum ^^

 

[Dark Azelf]

https://youtu.be/Xwe8N5iUXRY

This video is surprisingly accurate!

 

[halcyonic]

https://youtu.be/Xwe8N5iUXRY

This video is surprisingly accurate!

does that mean you are quitting pokemon?

 

[luke]

does that mean you are quitting pokemon?

We can only hope that's true.