What opinion are you defending like this? Pokémon edition

Sun/Moon anime designs were NOT bad and I will DIE on that hill. Fight me.
 
HG/SS are mid at best. FR/LG are vastly superior. Hell, BD/SP and even the original G/S/C were better.

HG/SS were "get it used at Gamestop at a discount, play it once and then send it back to Gamestop" games for me. Probably should have skipped them entirely.

I've got enough hot takes to fill a novel, but based on what I've heard around the fandom, that might be my hottest one of all.
 
Elite Overlord LeSabre™ said:
HG/SS are mid at best. FR/LG are vastly superior. Hell, BD/SP and even the original G/S/C were better.

HG/SS were "get it used at Gamestop at a discount, play it once and then send it back to Gamestop" games for me. Probably should have skipped them entirely.

I've got enough hot takes to fill a novel, but based on what I've heard around the fandom, that might be my hottest one of all.
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I think you are the first Pokemon fan I've ever heard say hg/SS are bad. What makes them bad games in your opinion?
 
WddB03 said:
I think you are the first Pokemon fan I've ever heard say hg/SS are bad. What makes them bad games in your opinion?
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*Raises hand as the second* :mareepwave:

For me? The totally unnecessary story bloat added by the remakes for one. The feeling of grinding levels taking AGES for another, though that's more of a DS era issue in general for me. The fact that you get a game much closer in style to FR/LG in Crystal than you do from a remake on a next gen console for a third.
The one cool thing HG/SS did was have the Pokemon follow behind you, but even that was done pretty dang well in BD/SP and the games actually feel good to play.
 
Corveone said:
I don't know if it's unpopular, but IVs and EVs are awful mechanics that only exist to waste players' time. They should get a revamp, turned into something more engaging and fun to interact with instead of something that's so ugly it needs to be hidden from the average player.
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Now this I agree with. IVs are an absolute pain and the ultimate black pill in Pokémon. No matter how good you raise your Pokémon, if its IVs suck then it will never be as powerful as you want it to. I honestly wish they were removed because hidden power doesn't exist anymore. It would severely cut down the time it takes to train Pokémon for competitive battling.

EVs I think are okay because I see them as stat modifiers. They're nowhere near as tedious as IVs but that's just my opinion. I don't think I would miss them though.
 
I guess one opinion I'll defend that I started to have as I get older is no Pokémon has a "bad" design at all and I actually at least am neutral about all of them. Even my least favourites, Frigibax, Lucario, and Coalossal, have something I can appreciate with them. Life's too short to hate on a design that's supposed to be a kid's game and I'd rather spend that energy on designs that actually appeal to me and it's perfectly okay to not have every Pokémon as my favourite anyways.

I also feel mainline Pokémon are always fun regardless of the flaws and criticisms I have with them (looking at SwSh) because at its core, Pokémon is a fun concept.
 
WddB03 said:
I think you are the first Pokemon fan I've ever heard say hg/SS are bad. What makes them bad games in your opinion?
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I did say "mid", not "bad." At least I bought and played through SS (albeit used at a deep discount a few months after release,) unlike some later games that I just skipped altogether. And they worked without crashes, glitches and framerate issues.

But to answer the question, and honestly, a lot of these are holdover flaws from G/S/C:
  • The level curve is horrendous. Once you enter Kanto, there are some routes where the trainers have Lv50 Pokemon but the ones in the wild grass are still Lv3.
  • Kanto itself is bare bones, pretty much the "We have Kanto at home" version of it. It is improved over GSC, but it still feels barren and boring.
  • You can no longer delete Pokegear numbers. I actually had to restart my file because of this, and had to make a note of which trainers to avoid getting their numbers since their calls were so frequent and annoying.
  • I found Mom's spending habits (if you let her save your money) a LOT more egregious than GSC. And some of the stuff she bought in the originals were unique like the dolls for your bedroom. In HG/SS it's mostly random-ass berries you can find on any route.
  • I personally found the Pokemon following thing to be annoying, and found myself riding the bike a lot more often to circumvent it. It didn't help that it automatically chose the first Pokemon on your party list, and I have a habit of changing my team order quite often, which meant the follower changed just as frequently. Seriously, I haven't given the Bike that serious of a workout in any other game.
  • Leaf does not appear anywhere in the game. They stuck with the same weak pushover that was in GSC.
  • Rock Climb is required for some caves, which makes traversing them worse than GSC.
  • Team Rocket without Giovanni is a sad, pathetic shell of its former self and rarely seemed like a threat.
  • Kris > Lyra.
And honestly, the more modern graphics and remixed music took away most of the nostalgia factor that G/S/C had. As flawed as the originals were, I at least have fond memories of staying up late at night and exploring Johto after dark with them. I got no such feelings playing through HG/SS.

I did catch a random shiny Meowth in SS, which I transferred to another game, so they weren't all bad lol
Rock_Salazar said:
Hearing people enjoy BD/SP more that HG/SS baffles my mind and I'm a devout gen 2 hater.
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I mean, I'm completely baffled as to why BD/SP get so much hate. They weren't great games, but they were based on a good foundation (D/P). Yeah, the changes were few, but at least it wasn't a situation like HG/SS where many of the changes actually made them worse than the originals.

Then again, I have been known to have weird opinions, lol
 
Elite Overlord LeSabre™ said:
I did say "mid", not "bad." At least I bought and played through SS (albeit used at a deep discount a few months after release,) unlike some later games that I just skipped altogether. And they worked without crashes, glitches and framerate issues.

But to answer the question, and honestly, a lot of these are holdover flaws from G/S/C:
  • The level curve is horrendous. Once you enter Kanto, there are some routes where the trainers have Lv50 Pokemon but the ones in the wild grass are still Lv3.
  • Kanto itself is bare bones, pretty much the "We have Kanto at home" version of it. It is improved over GSC, but it still feels barren and boring.
  • You can no longer delete Pokegear numbers. I actually had to restart my file because of this, and had to make a note of which trainers to avoid getting their numbers since their calls were so frequent and annoying.
  • I found Mom's spending habits (if you let her save your money) a LOT more egregious than GSC. And some of the stuff she bought in the originals were unique like the dolls for your bedroom. In HG/SS it's mostly random-ass berries you can find on any route.
  • I personally found the Pokemon following thing to be annoying, and found myself riding the bike a lot more often to circumvent it. It didn't help that it automatically chose the first Pokemon on your party list, and I have a habit of changing my team order quite often, which meant the follower changed just as frequently. Seriously, I haven't given the Bike that serious of a workout in any other game.
  • Leaf does not appear anywhere in the game. They stuck with the same weak pushover that was in GSC.
  • Rock Climb is required for some caves, which makes traversing them worse than GSC.
  • Team Rocket without Giovanni is a sad, pathetic shell of its former self and rarely seemed like a threat.
  • Kris > Lyra.
And honestly, the more modern graphics and remixed music took away most of the nostalgia factor that G/S/C had. As flawed as the originals were, I at least have fond memories of staying up late at night and exploring Johto after dark with them. I got no such feelings playing through HG/SS.

I did catch a random shiny Meowth in SS, which I transferred to another game, so they weren't all bad lol

I mean, I'm completely baffled as to why BD/SP get so much hate. They weren't great games, but they were based on a good foundation (D/P). Yeah, the changes were few, but at least it wasn't a situation like HG/SS where many of the changes actually made them worse than the originals.

Then again, I have been known to have weird opinions, lol
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I think the reason most people think HG/SS are good is because they're upgrades from Gold and Silver, what they're based on, but not Crystal. A majority of gen 4 enthusiasts never played gen 2 and therefore missed out on Crystal. A lot of the things you mentioned seem to be more based on Crystal rather than original Gold and Silver. That and Giovanni was nowhere to be seen in gen 2 either. That one confuses me. There is one thing I will agree with you on when it comes to Crystal. It has the best Pokémon spawns out of all Johto games and better QoLs. Getting a Teddiursa and Phanpy much earlier is amazing. Getting a free egg with one of the baby evolutions, (especially when some of the evolutions are Kanto exclusive) is a huge bonus. Having access to the evolutionary stones is something Gold and Silver didn't have until post-game. Crystal's Kris is better designed than HG/SS's Lyra. Not having rock climb is 1 less HM to worry about. I still believe gen 2 is bad, but Crystal is leagues better than Gold and Silver. Kinda wish Red was replaced by Leaf if you chose to play as Lyra. That would've been great.

If HG/SS is mid and so is BD/SP then by default OR/AS and FR/LG are the superior remakes. Long live gen 3 the best generation.
 
Corveone said:
I don't know if it's unpopular, but IVs and EVs are awful mechanics that only exist to waste players' time. They should get a revamp, turned into something more engaging and fun to interact with instead of something that's so ugly it needs to be hidden from the average player.
Click to expand...
I agree they are tedious, gen 6 did a good job with making EV training into a fun mini game. But yeah outside of that I agree it's tedious and annoying it's hidden
 
faf said:
I guess one opinion I'll defend that I started to have as I get older is no Pokémon has a "bad" design at all and I actually at least am neutral about all of them. Even my least favourites, Frigibax, Lucario, and Coalossal, have something I can appreciate with them. Life's too short to hate on a design that's supposed to be a kid's game and I'd rather spend that energy on designs that actually appeal to me and it's perfectly okay to not have every Pokémon as my favourite anyways.

I also feel mainline Pokémon are always fun regardless of the flaws and criticisms I have with them (looking at SwSh) because at its core, Pokémon is a fun concept.
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I agree 100%! I always say, there can be bad Pokemon games. But a bad mainline Pokemon game is still a really good and really fun game. Just because of the design, as you said.
 
Dynamax is the best gimmick as it's the best balanced one (Megas are poorly balanced due to the vast majority of megas being on Pokemon that didn't need them in the first place... and Z-Moves are wholly unnecessary altogether) that doesn't look like rubbish (looking at you, you stupid Tera hats), while still giving something special to certain Pokemon in the Gigantamax forms some Pokemon have (G-Max Centiskorch is badass to name one).

Gen 6 is the best gen with both XY and ORAS being great games to play.
Gen 8 is second best gen with Sword/Shield being great games (and BDSP is actually quite good).

Ice is the best type. Defensive resistances and immunities are overrated. Sure an extra resistance would be decent to have, but it's not like you actually need it and can't make them work without a 2nd resistance. If you can't make Ice types work that's a skill issue if you ask me (though I will admit GF has mis-designed a lot of them stats wise by not making most of them into glass cannons, but even then bulkier ones like Cetitan can be made to work just fine still).
I've done an Ice types only playthrough in Scarlet where I started with Alolan Sandshrew and, aside from some early game struggles due to x 4 weaknesses, that playthrough went smooth all the way until the end. For Blueberry Alolan Sandslash + Froslass proved to be a menace the opposing teams just couldn't really handle.
 
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ReKoil said:
Dynamax is the best gimmick as it's the best balanced one (Megas are poorly balanced due to the vast majority of megas being on Pokemon that didn't need them in the first place... and Z-Moves are wholly unnecessary altogether) that doesn't look like rubbish (looking at you, you stupid Tera hats), while still giving something special to certain Pokemon in the Gigantamax forms some Pokemon have (G-Max Centiskorch is badass to name one).

Gen 6 is the best gen with both XY and ORAS being great games to play.
Gen 8 is second best gen with Sword/Shield being great games (and BDSP is actually quite good).

Ice is the best type. Defensive resistances and immunities are overrated. Sure an extra resistance would be decent to have, but it's not like you actually need it and can't make them work without a 2nd resistance. If you can't make Ice types work that's a skill issue if you ask me (though I will admit GF has mis-designed a lot of them stats wise by not making most of them into glass cannons, but even then bulkier ones like Cetitan can be made to work just fine still).
I've done an Ice types only playthrough in Scarlet where I started with Alolan Sandshrew and, aside from some early game struggles due to x 4 weaknesses, that playthrough went smooth all the way until the end. For Blueberry Alolan Sandslash + Froslass proved to be a menace the opposing teams just couldn't really handle.
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Gen 6 and 8 are also my favorites. Underrated games for sure. The dynamax thing is interesting. Don't think I've heard that very often. (I love mega's and was 10 when X/Y came out I may be biased). Dynamax is a cool combination of Z-moves and megas, but don't think I've heard anyone say it's the best
 
Elite Overlord LeSabre™ said:
I did say "mid", not "bad." At least I bought and played through SS (albeit used at a deep discount a few months after release,) unlike some later games that I just skipped altogether. And they worked without crashes, glitches and framerate issues.

But to answer the question, and honestly, a lot of these are holdover flaws from G/S/C:
  • The level curve is horrendous. Once you enter Kanto, there are some routes where the trainers have Lv50 Pokemon but the ones in the wild grass are still Lv3.
  • Kanto itself is bare bones, pretty much the "We have Kanto at home" version of it. It is improved over GSC, but it still feels barren and boring.
  • You can no longer delete Pokegear numbers. I actually had to restart my file because of this, and had to make a note of which trainers to avoid getting their numbers since their calls were so frequent and annoying.
  • I found Mom's spending habits (if you let her save your money) a LOT more egregious than GSC. And some of the stuff she bought in the originals were unique like the dolls for your bedroom. In HG/SS it's mostly random-ass berries you can find on any route.
  • I personally found the Pokemon following thing to be annoying, and found myself riding the bike a lot more often to circumvent it. It didn't help that it automatically chose the first Pokemon on your party list, and I have a habit of changing my team order quite often, which meant the follower changed just as frequently. Seriously, I haven't given the Bike that serious of a workout in any other game.
  • Leaf does not appear anywhere in the game. They stuck with the same weak pushover that was in GSC.
  • Rock Climb is required for some caves, which makes traversing them worse than GSC.
  • Team Rocket without Giovanni is a sad, pathetic shell of its former self and rarely seemed like a threat.
  • Kris > Lyra.
And honestly, the more modern graphics and remixed music took away most of the nostalgia factor that G/S/C had. As flawed as the originals were, I at least have fond memories of staying up late at night and exploring Johto after dark with them. I got no such feelings playing through HG/SS.

I did catch a random shiny Meowth in SS, which I transferred to another game, so they weren't all bad lol

I mean, I'm completely baffled as to why BD/SP get so much hate. They weren't great games, but they were based on a good foundation (D/P). Yeah, the changes were few, but at least it wasn't a situation like HG/SS where many of the changes actually made them worse than the originals.

Then again, I have been known to have weird opinions, lol
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I can see what you mean on HG/SS. I don't agree but I can understand where you're coming from. Thanks for sharing, always cool to get new perspectives.
And yes BDSP got too much hate, they were flawed games. But they have their place in mainline pokemon. I really enjoyed those games minus a minor annoyance here and there. They had some really interesting ideas.
 
Rock_Salazar said:
I think the reason most people think HG/SS are good is because they're upgrades from Gold and Silver, what they're based on, but not Crystal. A majority of gen 4 enthusiasts never played gen 2 and therefore missed out on Crystal. A lot of the things you mentioned seem to be more based on Crystal rather than original Gold and Silver. That and Giovanni was nowhere to be seen in gen 2 either. That one confuses me. There is one thing I will agree with you on when it comes to Crystal. It has the best Pokémon spawns out of all Johto games and better QoLs. Getting a Teddiursa and Phanpy much earlier is amazing. Getting a free egg with one of the baby evolutions, (especially when some of the evolutions are Kanto exclusive) is a huge bonus. Having access to the evolutionary stones is something Gold and Silver didn't have until post-game. Crystal's Kris is better designed than HG/SS's Lyra. Not having rock climb is 1 less HM to worry about. I still believe gen 2 is bad, but Crystal is leagues better than Gold and Silver. Kinda wish Red was replaced by Leaf if you chose to play as Lyra. That would've been great.

If HG/SS is mid and so is BD/SP then by default OR/AS and FR/LG are the superior remakes. Long live gen 3 the best generation.
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As someone who played Crystal. I actually think they are an upgrade to crystal. They sprinkled in crystals storyline while keeping Ampharos and Girafarig (two of my favorites gen 2 mons) in the game. There are many other reasons why I think they are better and while HG/SS has its flaws I think it's an upgrade over crystal. The only reason I play crystal over HGSS is if I wanna play without physical/special split.
 
Alex_Among_Foxes said:
*Raises hand as the second* :mareepwave:

For me? The totally unnecessary story bloat added by the remakes for one. The feeling of grinding levels taking AGES for another, though that's more of a DS era issue in general for me. The fact that you get a game much closer in style to FR/LG in Crystal than you do from a remake on a next gen console for a third.
The one cool thing HG/SS did was have the Pokemon follow behind you, but even that was done pretty dang well in BD/SP and the games actually feel good to play.
Click to expand...
I'm curious, what do you mean by "story bloat"? Totally understand the grinding thing, from gen 3 to B/W it was a problem but they have gotten better at it since
 
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