What's with the lack of ice types?

[Bellsprout]

It might be because ice types are considered the worst type for reasons already stated in this thread. At least that's what I have read the past few years, so I could easily be wrong. Of course that's from a competitive perspective and I truly don't know how much game freak caters to the competitive scene as I'm not part of it. The other reason could be because game freak has designed each region fairly similarly. That being with a cold area towards the end game. Even in dppt which I remember being pushed as a cold region doesn't have a truly cold area until you're headed to the 7th gym.

I would love to see a true cold region game with early ice types, but I'm not counting on it

 

[Palamon]

Climate change could definitely be a factor why Ice Types are the least common type, but maybe that's leaning a little too far in reality... I honestly don't know, maybe it's because there isn't a region that's exclusively completely cold. I know Sinnoh is consider "colder" but even then, it was only Snowpoint that had constant snow there. Tbh, unless there's a region in the Pokemon world that like based off Russia or like Canada or something, where I hear it snows a lot, I don't think we'll ever get a region that has ice types as early as the first route or second...

 

[Figure]

Could be less common due to its defensiveness as a type. Strives to make Pokemon very beginner-friendly. Avoids fragile Pokemon early on as a result. (Frontloads Bug-types with early-game power spikes for the same reason.) Shortens the window to introduce new Ice types. Cannot stick in too many at once either.

Cheats a bit with Dragons. Becomes a much more exclusive group without legendaries.

If that were the case, then why the hell are there so many grass types. Ice types have 4 weaknesses to 5 for Grass, sure, Grass has more resistences but still. Ice also is super effective against 1 more type and only 4 types resist it whereas 7 FREAKING TYPES resist grass...and it is a starter type! So I really doubt it is to make it beginner friendly.

 

[Devalue]

If that were the case, then why the hell are there so many grass types. Ice types have 4 weaknesses to 5 for Grass, sure, Grass has more resistences but still. Ice also is super effective against 1 more type and only 4 types resist it whereas 7 FREAKING TYPES resist grass...and it is a starter type! So I really doubt it is to make it beginner friendly.

Fair. Must be taken in context of the game, though. Bolstered Grass by the challenges you face. Knew many players would have a Grass type. Gave the early edge in major battles to Grass...sometimes.

- Sword/Shield gyms: Grass, Water, then Fire. Stuck Grass's two best in front.

- Sun/Moon trials: Normal, Fighting (with Rowlet), then Water. Favors Grass slightly, more so with Rowlet.

- X/Y: Bug, Rock (with Dragon and Ice), then Fighting. Terrible for Grass.

- Black/White: Varies, Normal, then Bug. Not the greatest for Grass.

- Diamond/Pearl: Rock, Grass, then Fighting. Decent for Grass.

- Ruby/Sapphie: Rock, Fighting, then Electric. Solid for Grass.

- Gold/Silver: Flying, Bug, then Normal. Awful for Grass.

- Red/Blue: Rock, Water, then Electric. Grass's best set.

Notices a lot of Rock (4), Fighting (4), and sometimes Bug (3). Slants the field against Ice.

 

[Corveone]

While it's true that Grass type has more weaknesses, the thing is Grass has a very handy set of resistances: Ground (one of the most problematic weaknesses) along with Water and Electric (and Grass itself) that can help a lot against some Pokémon. They are also immune to "powder" status moves, which is nice in the early game. Ice resists nothing but itself.

And yeah, Grass is pretty awful offensively. But it's not supposed to be a mainly offensive type as far as I know, they're more suitable for a tactical/support role through the use of status moves, health draining, Sunny Day, Grassy Terrain, and annoying/crippling the opponents in different ways, which is nice for some playstyles or for dealing with certain things. The problem is that the main games usually "punish" that kind of strategies by giving strong trainers a couple of full restores so voila, you better just don't bother and go for full-offensive trying to one-shot everything you can.

I would love to see a true cold region game with early ice types, but I'm not counting on it

I've actually seen two rom hacks doing that, they start in a snowy town and you can get Ice types in the first Route/Cave. The problem is, the fact that most Ice Pokémon that evolve by levelling do so at around level 40 is a sign that they were mostly designed (like Dragons) to be late game Pokémon. Putting Snorunt or Vanillite in Route 1 isn't really the smartest idea because you probably don't want to be stuck with their unevolved forms for so long (if you want a Glalie in Snorunt's case).

 

[Meister_anon~Master_o f_None]

If that were the case, then why the hell are there so many grass types. Ice types have 4 weaknesses to 5 for Grass, sure, Grass has more resistences but still. Ice also is super effective against 1 more type and only 4 types resist it whereas 7 FREAKING TYPES resist grass...and it is a starter type! So I really doubt it is to make it beginner friendly.

Maybe its the order of gyms? also bringing up someone above mentioned the cold area is usually like an afterthought close to the end of the game.

if you think of seafoam islands with articuno as the cold area that trope seems to hold even from gen 1.

What is the typical type order for gyms is it more or less the same between games? I can't remember right now.

I know gen 1, started with rock then went water, which early grass would help with, but I seem to remember there not really being grass types early on, just bugs.

Then had to battle lance for the elite four and I guess you can say they maybe gave ice types for that.

I think I remember gen 2 had late game dragon gym leader in claire (unless she was elite four?)

If anyone knows/ remembers does that idea hold up for why the ice areas are usually late game? to match the gyms?

still pretty weak argument though.

Ah nevermind see Devalue already handled it,
nice job btw.

 

[Corveone]

What is the typical type order for gyms is it more or less the same between games? I can't remember right now.

Some types vary from game to game wildly, like Electric and Water which have been early game gyms and 8th gyms. Some other types are allways early game like Grass and Bug; Rock gyms allways went first except for X/Y and Sw/Sh, Ice and Dragon are typically at or near the end, and Psychic and Ghost are usually in the middle.

The Kanto gym order is very Bulbasaur friendly, and in fact all types that Grass is good against have a gym in Kanto. Sadly a certain Johto starter had to suffer the consequences of that :(

 

[Meister_anon~Master_o f_None]

ok thanks, that sounds like a plausible explanation for why ice types are usually found late.
Which goes further into making the type unpopular, its not that good offensively or defensively, its very low in number,
and on top of that by the time you may encounter any the game is practically over so you wouldn't even need them.

as well as the other point raised that they usually evolve difficultly or extremely late.


but that could also be an issue created because of them being relegated to late game...

 

[Figure]

Fair. Must be taken in context of the game, though. Bolstered Grass by the challenges you face. Knew many players would have a Grass type. Gave the early edge in major battles to Grass...sometimes.

- Sword/Shield gyms: Grass, Water, then Fire. Stuck Grass's two best in front.

- Sun/Moon trials: Normal, Fighting (with Rowlet), then Water. Favors Grass slightly, more so with Rowlet.

- X/Y: Bug, Rock (with Dragon and Ice), then Fighting. Terrible for Grass.

- Black/White: Varies, Normal, then Bug. Not the greatest for Grass.

- Diamond/Pearl: Rock, Grass, then Fighting. Decent for Grass.

- Ruby/Sapphie: Rock, Fighting, then Electric. Solid for Grass.

- Gold/Silver: Flying, Bug, then Normal. Awful for Grass.

- Red/Blue: Rock, Water, then Electric. Grass's best set.

Notices a lot of Rock (4), Fighting (4), and sometimes Bug (3). Slants the field against Ice.

So all in all, pretty average start for grass I would say, they do get the advantage of all of the Hikers and cave areas too, to be fair. Pretty unfair that Chikorita, already the worst starter in Jhoto, gets an awful gym lineup as well... poor little bastard never had a chance.

 

[Tpick2211]

Not only that, often times the few that are in the game aren't catchable until late on. I keep wiating for a gen to give it the same treatment gen 5 gave bug types. Maybe one day.

 

[PokemonPotatoHero]

Think if its due to the lack of demands for it.