Why did they change everything up so much?

[Illusionss]

It's not even going to feel like a Pokemon game by removing the regular formula of gyms and such. Also why go overkill with alola forms and special moves? We already have mega evolution, each generation seems to be getting worse and worse, granted gen 6 was pretty good, but I'm not so sure I'll enjoy this gen. Also this is minor but I really dislike the whole battle layout.

It'll still probably end up being decent, but removing the simple concept of all other Pokemon games is going to be a problem for the casual players like myself, gen 6 took me ages to find out how all the new stuff worked (O powers, mega evolutions, Battle points, ect ect..) Also Ash-greninja? They trying to make a 2016 power rangers inspired game by having human/pokemon fusions?

One of the things that made Pokemon fun for me was being able to just put in the game and play, now that'll be difficult without researching how everything works, just my opinion.

P.s. I have the demo and I heard there's items that you can send to the full game, do I just have to play through to get them all or is there side quests you have to do? If someone could let me know how to get the demo items that would be great, already have the ash greninja.

 

[blue]

Changing up the formula can be a good thing, it prevents the franchise from feeling repetitive. I don't think removing Gyms is that much of a big deal if it has been replaced by something else. At least we have the Island Trial Challenge in place to compensate for the removal of them which, if anything, will provide even more content as each trial takes seemingly longer than a traditional Gym Puzzle and battle. The good thing about trials is that both old and new fans will get a completely new experience with them. As for the games as a whole, I don't think the formula has been changed drastically when compared to past titles. We're still traveling through a new region, capturing new Pokémon, collecting items and training up a team. We still have rivals, a professor, an evil team and so forth.

It's fine that you have your own opinion, I'd just wait until actually trying out these new features before putting them down. You might be surprised and find that all these new features change the gameplay for the better.

All the demo questions can be answered in this thread. (:

 

[VitalEcho]

I'm a bit in the same box. I've been playing Pokemon since Red & Blue and after taking a short break through the Black/White Generation I jumped back into it. I also found it a bit hard to wrap my head around all the new features and such. Mega-Evolution in particular was something I really didn't like at first. Since then it's actually grown on me quite a lot and I'm very disappointed they don't seem to be offering new mega evolutions for Alola.

I agree with being uncomfortable with the sheer amount of change. This Gen isn't just new features, it's shaking up the base formula. But like Mega evolutions, I may learn to love it. From what I can tell it looks like the island trials are basically Gym Battles, with a few mini-quests prior. The 'Kahuna' seems to basically be a gym leader. It seems to remind me of the orange islands series, with the Orange crew. If they keep this style specific to the Alolan region then I'll be good with it. I'm just hoping they go back to gyms with the following generation.

Can't say I like Z-Moves, but I get that it's intended to make some lesser used pokemon more viable. It just disappoints me that they seem to have chosen Z-moves over continuing Mega-Evolution.

 

[Nah]

People have always been scared of change really.

Yet at the same time, it's a necessary part of life.

It's still going to be, at its core, a Pokemon game. The basics are still there: kid gets starter Pokemon from professor, journeys around the whole region, catching them all, stomping the local mafia, and somehow beating a slew of much more experienced trainers.

I don't care for the Battle Royale tho

 

[Hikamaru]

Nah nails it here, people just can't stand drastic changes sometimes and I actually felt the same way as most people when I first heard about Gyms being non-existent in Alola (granted I was reading leaks and rumours) and when we got it confirmed with the reveal of Trial Captains, I had to definitely praise Game Freak for doing something different with the formula for once. Like Angelica said a few posts earlier, some of us were sick of Gyms and wanted a switch-up, and I've now read the focus on nature in the Alola region was part of the reason why we've been getting all these changes to the gameplay formula.

I feel Trial Captains will only be for Alola and we'll get Gyms back in the 8th Gen region, but you do have to praise Game Freak for experimenting with new concepts for this game. Like Nah said, despite all the changes to the formula for this game, we still gave other things that aren't changing.

 

[TrendyHipsta]

It's going to feel like a Pokémon game. You know why? Because Pokémon is all about evolving with new adventures, making new friends on the way, and new TRIALS to overcome.

What else would a Pokémon game would be?

 

[Rivvon]

Trial Captains "replacing" Gym Leaders may just be a thing in Alola and nothing more, so even if you may be apprehensive about how much you enjoy SM, I wouldn't worry too much about what it means for subsequent games--Gym Leaders could very well come back.

As for adding Alola forms and Z-Moves, I don't mind them both being implemented in SM, but I do hope that they ease up on the new raw mechanics for gen 8, and instead add to the ones they have (more regional variations, Z-Moves, and Megas, as opposed to ignoring them and making something all-new). Not because I have a problem with them adding new things, but the truth of the matter is, if they keep adding new mechanics in such rapid succession, the risk of power creep is increased (best practical example of this: Yu-Gi-Oh! TCG). But maybe for gen 8 they won't add tons of new mechanics and just improve and add to what they already have--but that in all honesty has nothing to do with SM, that would be up to gen 8.

So yeah I get why you'd be apprehensive about SM but just think of it as all these things are confined to SM alone. Even something like the battle layout that you say you dislike--this HUD design is likely going to be exclusive to SM, too. If you play SM and like it, then yay, you liked it. If you play SM and don't like it, just remember the things you don't like about it will probably just apply to SM, and could possibly be changed in subsequent games.

 

[PlatinumDude]

I don't see anything wrong with changing up the game formula. If anything, the island trials are the closest thing we have to gyms. Taking on gyms every generation could get a bit taxing, so I'm glad they're changing things up a bit.

 

[JoyStar]

I actually like the changes, it keeps the games from feeling repetitive.

 

[Illusionss]

People have always been scared of change really.

Yet at the same time, it's a necessary part of life.

It's still going to be, at its core, a Pokemon game. The basics are still there: kid gets starter Pokemon from professor, journeys around the whole region, catching them all, stomping the local mafia, and somehow beating a slew of much more experienced trainers.

I don't care for the Battle Royale tho

If I wanted to "stomp the local mafia" I'd buy Mafia 3

Trial Captains "replacing" Gym Leaders may just be a thing in Alola and nothing more, so even if you may be apprehensive about how much you enjoy SM, I wouldn't worry too much about what it means for subsequent games--Gym Leaders could very well come back.

As for adding Alola forms and Z-Moves, I don't mind them both being implemented in SM, but I do hope that they ease up on the new raw mechanics for gen 8, and instead add to the ones they have (more regional variations, Z-Moves, and Megas, as opposed to ignoring them and making something all-new). Not because I have a problem with them adding new things, but the truth of the matter is, if they keep adding new mechanics in such rapid succession, the risk of power creep is increased (best practical example of this: Yu-Gi-Oh! TCG). But maybe for gen 8 they won't add tons of new mechanics and just improve and add to what they already have--but that in all honesty has nothing to do with SM, that would be up to gen 8.

So yeah I get why you'd be apprehensive about SM but just think of it as all these things are confined to SM alone. Even something like the battle layout that you say you dislike--this HUD design is likely going to be exclusive to SM, too. If you play SM and like it, then yay, you liked it. If you play SM and don't like it, just remember the things you don't like about it will probably just apply to SM, and could possibly be changed in subsequent games.

Nobody is being apprehensive. I clearly said that it would still end up being a decent game, but I liked playing though casually and for me the same formula each game is what made Pokemon so fun and unique to other games series for me, just my opinion. Besides even if they are changing things back, we'll likely have to wait another two years for the next Pokemon games after sun and moon.

It's going to feel like a Pokémon game. You know why? Because Pokémon is all about evolving with new adventures, making new friends on the way, and new TRIALS to overcome.

What else would a Pokémon game would be?

Maybe the same thing that it has been for the past 20 years?

I can kind of get why people are apprehensive about the change, but on the other hand, I think the mere thought of "oh my god this doesn't feel like a pokemon game" is, no offense, ridiculous. I personally don't mind the removal of Gyms; I have said over and over again that Gyms are boring and out of six generations, only one (Gen V) generation was such that the Gym Leaders actually helped you in the plot without just being badgefodder.

Maybe the Trial Captains won't help you the plot either. Regardless, they'd still be a far more welcome change than keeping Gyms around.

Honestly though, being blunt for a second? I wish people wouldn't be so apprehensive. I don't get why people think this is something new; Game Freak has been changing Pokemon every generation. Gen II to Gen III? Gen III to Gen IV? So on and so forth; there was always something removed and something added and people didn't care. Now all of a sudden since Gyms are removed and Game Freak did... what Game Freak has done for the past six generations, people are now taking an issue with it? That's silly to me.

Approach the game with an open mind and then make the determination of whether or not the game is for you. But it's not really wise to jump to conclusions this early without giving the game a shot.

I'm fine with minor changes like they've done in the past (although wasn't too fond of mega evolution's but I can deal with that). It's the fact that they've made such a huge change by removing gyms, imagine if they removed Pokeball's and had a new way to catch Pokemon, or completely removed Pokemon centre's to make it Pokemon go-like

 

[Illusionss]

Changing up the formula can be a good thing, it prevents the franchise from feeling repetitive. I don't think removing Gyms is that much of a big deal if it has been replaced by something else. At least we have the Island Trial Challenge in place to compensate for the removal of them which, if anything, will provide even more content as each trial takes seemingly longer than a traditional Gym Puzzle and battle. The good thing about trials is that both old and new fans will get a completely new experience with them. As for the games as a whole, I don't think the formula has been changed drastically when compared to past titles. We're still traveling through a new region, capturing new Pokémon, collecting items and training up a team. We still have rivals, a professor, an evil team and so forth.

It's fine that you have your own opinion, I'd just wait until actually trying out these new features before putting them down. You might be surprised and find that all these new features change the gameplay for the better.

All the demo questions can be answered in this thread. (:

Absolutely, I will try it out before putting it down. As I said it'll still end up being a decent game at the very least, I can just see it being a step down from the other Pokemon games, at least for me. But that doesn't mean it'll be a bad game or anything.

Are the Island challenges going to be considerably longer than gyms? When a new Pokemon game comes out I usually get both versions of the game and speedrun the first one I play, then take my time and do all the side quests on the next one, so would be a bit of a pain if the games as a whole we're something like twice as long. Although I know most people would love having a longer game, but as I said I'm just a casual player

it is the same thing it has been for the past 20 years. you catch pokemon, you challenge bosses, you beat them, you stomp the local bad guy team, you become champion. It's how you go about doing those things that can change.

Except there's no more gyms and with that I'm assuming no more badges to collect (unless the new challenges have badges). It would be like removing Pokeballs and giving us a new way to catch Pokemon.

 

[Vidxad]

Honestly, I was so excited when I heard that it was all changing. I've been doing the same thing over and over since 1998, I've been ready for something different for about a decade and they are finally going to deliver that. I'm not sure how I feel about Z-moves just yet though, but considering it's a one time use attack, it can't shake up the game that much...hopefully.

Except there's no more gyms and with that I'm assuming no more badges to collect (unless the new challenges have badges). It would be like removing Pokeballs and giving us a new way to catch Pokemon.

That's not a fair comparison. You gave a complete overhaul to a core mechanic of the game. What they're doing is simply changing the challenges that you face on your journey to become the best trainer. Instead of traveling from gym to gym, your traveling from island challenge to island challenge. It's basically the same thing, just presented in a different way. I would hold off judgement until after you've played it.

 

[Mikewind]

The way I see it Trails are just gyms with a new coat of paint. You still have puzzles that may or may not include battles. The first trial has you fighting yungoos/A-ratatta. At the end of a trial you fight a totem pokemon which is the same as a gym leader. That's how I see it anyway maybe I'm just biased.

 

[Illusionss]

But idgi, you're saying this like Gyms are ousted permanently instead of just for this one game? The reason why Gyms aren't included in Alola is obvious: because it wouldn't fit in Alola; including Gyms would run contradictory to the point of Alola which has a culture that wouldn't really allow for Gyms to blend in easily.

If that was the case shouldn't they change Pokeballs to nets so it would be more fitting to Alola? Lol. Gyms could fit into anything, they could've just had them Hawaiian looking. Besides, it'll be around 2018 before a new Pokemon game is released, by which time I may not want to play Pokemon games, or any games at all for that matter since I'm now into my 20's and now only enjoy a few games, so it's likely that I'll be pretty much done with games completely by the time the next Pokemon game rolls round. But that's my problem I guess, either way the fact that they're bringing gyms back for the next games and only changing things up this significantly may be only for this generation is irrelevant if we're in the Sun and Moon discussions tbh.

That's not a fair comparison. You gave a complete overhaul to a core mechanic of the game. What they're doing is simply changing the challenges that you face on your journey to become the best trainer. Instead of traveling from gym to gym, your traveling from island challenge to island challenge. It's basically the same thing, just presented in a different way. I would hold off judgement until after you've played it.

I don't see how that's not a fair comparison, both gyms and Pokeball's have been in the game from the very start, it would just be like them replacing Pokeball's with let's say Pokenet's (Lol). But actually catching Pokemon with different tools is arguably less game changing than removing gyms since it wouldn't change anything story-line wise and would be just an aesthetic change for the most part.

The way I see it Trails are just gyms with a new coat of paint. You still have puzzles that may or may not include battles. The first trial has you fighting yungoos/A-ratatta. At the end of a trial you fight a totem pokemon which is the same as a gym leader. That's how I see it anyway maybe I'm just biased.

What's totem Pokemon, is that yet another different form?

 

[VitalEcho]

The way I see it Trails are just gyms with a new coat of paint. You still have puzzles that may or may not include battles. The first trial has you fighting yungoos/A-ratatta. At the end of a trial you fight a totem pokemon which is the same as a gym leader. That's how I see it anyway maybe I'm just biased.

My understanding was that you also fight the 'Kahuna' of the island after the Totem pokemon. Isn't a 'Kahuna' basically just another name for Gym Leader? Sooo.... just a bunch of side quests leading to a Gym leader. So no real change.

 

[Illusionss]

Missing the point. Pokeballs are more or less universal; Gyms are not. The Alola region gives the impression that Gyms are fairly common among regions that are more urban; Unova is a good example of this as you see Gyms that are more individualized and larger and more unique than say, Gyms in other regions like Sinnoh and Hoenn and Johto who have all had more or less the same designs. The point being is that Gyms would stick out and look out of place in a region like Alola. If you disagree, so be it, but that's the reasoning.

Nope, they could have just made the gyms Hawaiian looking as I've said, like one of the towns in ORAS, I forget it's name.


Actually, no. It's relevant because if you're not happy with the changes in this generation, then wait for next generation. If you don't believe you'll have enough interest in Pokemon games to have the patience to wait until then, then I'm not sure what to tell you, that does seem more like a personal problem than anything else.

I've said this before in multiple threads, and I'll say this again: the core mechanics of how Pokemon functions will always be the same (catching Pokemon, communicating with people online, challenging stronger trainers, becoming Champion, etc), it's how we do those things that change from generation to generation. We challenge trainers of different types who give us different HMs to cross different obstacles each and every generation. This is not new. This is just another change as to how we become the Champion; it just fits better within the island culture of Alola.

Completely irrelevant, we're discussing Sun and Moon, not the next Pokemon games. Just because a change is only here for this generation doesn't mean I should not have an opinion on it and does not make it immune to criticism. Also I thought they were getting rid of the HM's?

 

[Mikewind]

If that was the case shouldn't they change Pokeballs to nets so it would be more fitting to Alola? Lol. Gyms could fit into anything, they could've just had them Hawaiian looking. Besides, it'll be around 2018 before a new Pokemon game is released, by which time I may not want to play Pokemon games, or any games at all for that matter since I'm now into my 20's and now only enjoy a few games, so it's likely that I'll be pretty much done with games completely by the time the next Pokemon game rolls round. But that's my problem I guess, either way the fact that they're bringing gyms back for the next games and only changing things up this significantly may be only for this generation is irrelevant if we're in the Sun and Moon discussions tbh.



I don't see how that's not a fair comparison, both gyms and Pokeball's have been in the game from the very start, it would just be like them replacing Pokeball's with let's say Pokenet's (Lol). But actually catching Pokemon with different tools is arguably less game changing than removing gyms since it wouldn't change anything story-line wise and would be just an aesthetic change for the most part.



What's totem Pokemon, is that yet another different form?

A totem pokemon is twice the size of its original counterpart and has boosted stats and will also call upon allies for aid when its hp reaches a certain point.

 

[Illusionss]

A totem pokemon is twice the size of its original counterpart and has boosted stats and will also call upon allies for aid when its hp reaches a certain point.

Great, that'll be fun. Lol

 

[Illusionss]

We're not discussing the next Pokemon games, idk what you're talking about ?_? I'm saying it's completely relevant how, if you don't like the way things are done this generation, you have the option of waiting until next generation. That is your option. Whether you like or dislike that option is irrelevant, but it's an option nonetheless if you wish to go down that route and see whether the changes that you seem to be wary off will apply to subsequent generations.

You can criticize the games by what you've seen so far, sure. You can have an opinion, sure. No one's saying that you can't. Just try the games out first to develop a more informed opinion to see whether or not they actually meet your expectations.

We kind of are since you're saying the gyms will likely make a return in the next Pokemon games. If they are bringing back gyms for future releases, then great. But that has nothing to do with the fact that I'm almost certain that all these changes will ruin this game to a certain extent for me. Nintendo have a new console out, so in my opinion they should have made a regular formula Pokemon game for the handheld (like they've always done) and made Sun and Moon for the Nintendo Switch, like they did with Pokemon Colosseum and Gale of darkness for gamecube.

Also what about mega-evolutions and O powers? We've spent the last three years having those features and now we've adapted to them they're going to throw them down the shit pan?

 

[Illusionss]

I'm saying if you don't like the changes, that is your option. That is completely relevant to this entire conversation that we're having right now. If you feel all the changes are going to ruin the games for you regardless, then I'm sorry you feel that way? Idk what else to really say to you here or what response you're really looking for, tbh.

I'm not looking for any response, I was just giving my opinion. No one held a gun to your head and made you comment on this thread (at least I hope not).

MEvos are still going to be in the game (albeit no new megas, so take that as you will), and I honestly haven't heard anyone using O-Powers since like...a year and a half ago.

I'm not looking for any response, just giving my opinion. No one was holding a gun to your head forcing you to comment on this thread (at least I hope not).

I'm pretty sure anyone trying to hatch shiny Pokemon with the Masuda method would be using the hatching O power, unless of course they find it fun to spend twice as long riding around on the bike. I forget what other O powers there were but some were useful.