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Would you change the main games' difficulty?

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  • A lot of longer-time Pokémon fans thinks the main series games are too easy. Are you one of them? If you could, would you make the games harder or add difficulty settings? Or are you fine with how they are now?
     

    budube

    Hi I'm Cube
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    Pokémon is just a kid's game, yes, so the difficulty has to be set low; but let's agree that big part of the playerbase is composed by grown adults (or teenagers at the very least), and they should be able to take a better challenge without necessarily recurring to challenges like nuzlockes or solo runs and without having to play a different game either. I 100% support the idea of difficulty options, even if I'd like it to be kept at least in a medium-high difficulty by default.

    To fix the difficulty I would make some adjustments to the important NPCs teams more than anything: Giving them better Pokémon, moves and abilities for them to use an overall better strategy, kinda forcing you to use a strategy too, but without necessarily having to box the Pokémon you want to use (if anything that's in GF's fault for creating cute Pokémon with no competitive value just for the sake of being cute. Looking at you, Delcatty). Normal trainers like youngsters, grunts or whatever could use those tweaks but in a lower scale, because the difficulty would be in bosses. I'd adjust the AI a bit too for that to work.

    What I wouldn't do is overlevel NPCs and basically make massive grinding obligatory. That's not difficult, just tedious and bad design.

    EDIT: Something I would do too, that I remembered just now, is reduce the amount of healing items you are given around the whole game and also reduce the amount of times your team is restored to full health by your friendly rival or another rando.
     
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  • I actually think Sword and Shield made slight improvements to the difficulty (although the EXP candies are effectively an easy mode for players), but I definitely think things have been way too easy since Gen 6. Like we could all beat those games without breaking a sweat! I'm not completely happy with how easy the games are now, but I appreciate the games are made for kids, which is why I think difficulty settings are the best way forward imo!
     
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  • I actually think Sword and Shield made slight improvements to the difficulty (although the EXP candies are effectively an easy mode for players), but I definitely think things have been way too easy since Gen 6. Like we could all beat those games without breaking a sweat! I'm not completely happy with how easy the games are now, but I appreciate the games are made for kids, which is why I think difficulty settings are the best way forward imo!

    I subscribe to having us be able to choose difficulty settings. Even watching Let's Plays of the newer games is unbelievably boring lmao. Spam A and you'll win eventually.
     

    Palamon

    Silence is Purple
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  • Pokemon is easy because the target audience is with kids in mind. But, you can easily make the game a lot more difficult by setting rules and playing with difficult Pokemon. But, yes, I do think we need a difficulty setting brought back. But it needs to available at all times, not unlocked. :x
     
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    So I watch mandjtv on youtube sometimes and recently I watched a video where he went over each region's toughest gym leader and when he got to Kalos before he even said anything I thought to myself, "I can't think of anyone." I can't even think of the toughest elite four member for that region because they were all so easy. It honestly makes me sad. I replayed Platinum about a year ago after not having played an older gen in a long time and was pleasantly surprised by the actual challenge at points. I'm all for increased difficulty.
     
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  • I never understood where this sudden perception that Pokemon was a kid's game that needed to be easy came from. I never heard it when I was a kid or a teenager. I wouldn't call Pokemon games "difficult" per se, but they are far away from being mindless endeavors. NPCs could have 4-6 Pokemon on their teams. Gym leaders and Elite Four were monstrous at times. Pokemon evolved at late levels. But we still beat the games, even as kids. I certainly never asked for the games to be less challenging then and I have few complaints now.

    One of the many things that made Pokemon's design so brilliant was the variable depth that the player could access at their own behest. If you wanted to have four attacking moves on every Pokemon and beat the Pokemon League with the mascot legendary that was possible. If you wanted to use a meta team that was bred to perfection and properly EV trained, you could do that as well. It's completely up to you. But in games where most Trainers don't have any more than 2 Pokemon, grinding is obviated by the Exp Share, and the games are overly streamlined, that depth is eliminated. It seems like with every generation Pokemon is getting closer to being a battle simulator where you just build a Pokemon from a menu and the story doesn't matter at all. All that does is alienate entire portions of the playerbase, myself included. I didn't play Sword or Shield and nothing in me feels compelled to do so.
     

    pkmin3033

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    I actually wouldn't do anything to the games at all.

    I'm sorry, but Pokemon games haven't gotten any easier or harder over the years - you've just gotten better at playing them. Making a game less time-consuming (i.e. not requiring as much of a grind to match Pokemon levels to progress) does NOT make a game easier. Changing the games back to what they used to be would just make them feel like even more of an antiquated slog than they already do, and you really can't make the AI any more intelligent than it already is. I suppose you could add something like B2W2's Challenge Mode, but honestly all that did was give Gym Leader Pokemon held items and tack on a few extra levels, it didn't change the basic gameplay at all. Comparing your first experience at Pokemon when you had absolutely no idea what you were doing to your experience now and using that as a basis for saying the games are too easy is ridiculous.

    I don't think people who want the games to be harder actually realise what they're asking for, and I also think that anything Game Freak could do would be lost on them because they know how to work the system. If you think Pokemon is too easy, either find harder games to play or do a challenge. There's nothing to say you HAVE to play the game a certain way. So don't. Play a way that'll make it harder. You have that creative freedom, so use it. Don't pin it on Game Freak because you know how to play Pokemon.
     
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  • I'm sorry, but Pokemon games haven't gotten any easier or harder over the years - you've just gotten better at playing them.

    I actually agree with this quite a lot, playing the games as a child definitely creates the perception that the games are harder than they actually are! There are little things though, like E4 members only having four Pokemon in certain games, the EXP share being impossible to turn off in Sword and Shield just to name a couple off the top of my head. I'm sure there's a few more as well, but it's definitely a combination of us getting older, and changes made in the newer games :)
     

    DragonKing48

    The King Of All Dragons.
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  • I actually agree with this quite a lot, playing the games as a child definitely creates the perception that the games are harder than they actually are! There are little things though, like E4 members only having four Pokemon in certain games, the EXP share being impossible to turn off in Sword and Shield just to name a couple off the top of my head. I'm sure there's a few more as well, but it's definitely a combination of us getting older, and changes made in the newer games :)

    I mean...Ultra Necrozma still kicked my ass over and over again until I came back with Choice Scarf Garchomp and Quick Claw Haxorus lol 💁*♂️
     
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  • I mean...Ultra Necrozma still kicked my ass over and over again until I came back with Choice Scarf Garchomp and Quick Claw Haxorus lol 💁*♂️

    Yeah, I actually think the Alola games are pretty tough at points ahaha, some of the totem Pokemon gave me some trouble as well!
     

    DragonKing48

    The King Of All Dragons.
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  • Yeah, I actually think the Alola games are pretty tough at points ahaha, some of the totem Pokemon gave me some trouble as well!

    Yeah some of them were tough fights that took a lot out of my team, even Lurantis somehow and he had no advantage! Guzma is tough without Fire or Rock...
     
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    playing the games as a child definitely creates the perception that the games are harder than they actually are!

    Maybe that's true to some extent, but I've been replaying Platinum (first Sinnoh playthrough since 2009) lately and I would say it's definitely harder than X and even Alpha Sapphire (because of the exp. share).

    Can't speak to gen 7 & 8 though, and I don't remember almost anything from gen 5.
     

    pkmin3033

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    The EXP Share just makes things faster, not easier. It lets you achieve the same results in significantly less time. That's not easier, that's just less time-consuming. If you added in the same EXP Share mechanics to the games that don't have it, you'd finish them just as quickly. Time spent creates the illusion of increased difficulty, but that's still all it is: an illusion. I mean, think about it. If you grind up to level 70 in a "harder" game for the Elite Four - we'll say Black, which has a reduced EXP mechanic - it might take you 10-20 hours more or whatever, but you're still going to curbstomp everything with ease. It's exactly the same thing as an "easier" game like X, it just took you longer to get there. Try playing a Gen VI title without the EXP Share turned on and it'll take you a similar amount of time as your Black file took you. It's not actually any harder at all, but you THINK it is because you had to waste a ridiculous amount of time grinding that you didn't have to waste in another game. There is absolutely no correlation whatsoever between difficulty and length of time spent grinding in Pokemon games.

    The changes made to the games over time are more quality of life changes than anything else - they're designed to streamline the experience, not make it easier. Streamlining means that you spend less time doing tedious, repetitive tasks, like grinding for levels. The gameplay mechanics remain the same, and the same rules apply across all Pokemon titles: know your type match-ups, outlevel your opponent, and you'll win. Amount of time spent grinding is immaterial to actual difficulty. Number of Pokemon your opponent has doesn't even make a difference either, because you can use as many items as you can carry, so the only difference between 4 Pokemon and 6 is that you may not have to use as many.

    If you want to actually make the game more challenging, you're looking at things like:

    1. A level cap. If you could only have Pokemon that were a certain level before you got the next Gym Badge, you'd create a more equal playing field, meaning you would eliminate the ability to overpower your opponent by grinding.
    2. Capping the number of items and Pokemon you can use in a battle to match your opponent. Gym Leader uses 2 Full Restore per battle? So do you. That means you'll have to think strategically about what to bring, when to use it, etc.
    3. Re-introduce the Challenge Mode mechanics from B2W2 - give Gym Leader's Pokemon held items, etc. It's a small thing on top of everything else, but with the above two conditions it would definitely contribute. Especially if their Pokemon's levels are 5 or so higher than the cap.
    4. Restrictions of the types of items etc. you can use and hold, so you can't break the game by giving your Pokemon Choice items, etc.
    5. Restrictions of the Pokemon you can use, on top of everything else.

    Imagine if you could only bring one Fighting-type Pokemon into a Normal-type Gym, said Pokemon could only be Level 25 at most, the Gym Leader's star Pokemon was Level 29 or 30, and you both had two Super Potions and whatever held items were available at the time. Now imagine that Pokemon was Whitney's oft-reviled Miltank, which came with Milk Drink as it did in HGSS, and had Zen Heabutt for your Fighting-type Pokemon. Now you've created conditions which require strategy and tactics to overcome and might begin to approach difficult depending on what is available at that stage in the game.

    Just changing the EXP Share mechanics and calling it a day does not equate to making a game easier or harder. It just determines how long it'll take you to reach the desired conditions (i.e. being overpowered) which you can achieve in ANY of the titles. Again, time-consuming =/= difficult.

    Perhaps this comes from my experience playing JRPGs that are actually difficult, and my patience for grinding - I'm a Disgaea fan - but I see absolutely no difference between Pokemon titles and their difficulty. All I see is wildly varying EXP growth which means I might have to spend a little extra time gaining levels.
     
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  • 2. Capping the number of items and Pokemon you can use in a battle to match your opponent. Gym Leader uses 2 Full Restore per battle? So do you. That means you'll have to think strategically about what to bring, when to use it, etc.

    I really like this idea, it would definitely introduce more strategy to the games concerning item usage, when to use them and on which Pokemon. The AI in some E4 members and champions seem to save their full restores for their better Pokemon (or maybe it was just a coincidence they didn't use it before) so I think we should have to as well. I literally beat Cynthia last night by spamming full restores for three turns as toxic took out her Togekiss, and felt guilty after lmao. Item restrictions to match your opponent, in important fights anyway, would be a welcome difficulty upgrade.
     
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    Speaking from Kalos alone you become over leveled if you use it making the game easier. By leveling up faster than you would you can easily steam roll the game. If I don't use the exp share I'm not going to spend the same time reaching those higher levels at those set periods in the game. I would just face the same obstacles at lower levels and use a different strategy. I see the point you're trying to make but by making the experience gain faster it is easier.
     
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    pkmin3033

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    Speaking from Kalos alone you become over leveled if you use it making the game easier. By leveling up faster than you would you can easily steam roll the game. If I don't use the exp share I'm not going to spend the same time reaching those higher levels at those set periods in the game. I would just face the same obstacles at lower levels and use a different strategy. I see the point you're trying to make but by making the experience gain faster it is easier.
    I'm not sure you do see the point I'm making, because all Pokemon games are easy if you are overlevelled. The higher level you are, the easier it is. The amount of time you spend becoming overlevelled is completely immaterial to the difficulty of the game - you're going to get exactly the same result if you're a certain level, the only difference is the speed at which you're going to achieve it. So there's no difference in difficulty, just time spent. How can spending longer to grind make a game more difficult? How can gaining levels quickly make it easier?
     
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    I'm not sure you do see the point I'm making, because all Pokemon games are easy if you are overlevelled. The higher level you are, the easier it is. The amount of time you spend becoming overlevelled is completely immaterial to the difficulty of the game - you're going to get exactly the same result if you're a certain level, the only difference is the speed at which you're going to achieve it. So there's no difference in difficulty, just time spent. How can spending longer to grind make a game more difficult? How can gaining levels quickly make it easier?

    This is how I view it and I'm going to make up a random scenario to explain it. Let's say I'm playing with the exp share on and by the time I get to the fourth gym leader my team is six levels over the gym leader and I easily defeat them. But in another play through I don't use the exp share and I'm on par with the gym leader or below their level. Now in the second scenario I have multiple choices to go about this. I can either grind or figure out a strategy to win with my current team the way they are. I almost always choose to go about it with the team as is. I'm not spending that time grinding my team up levels to surpass that obstacle I'm choosing to find a new strategy to combat it.

    It's not that spending more time to achieve the same level is more difficult. It's that at set points in the game you face major battles and if you have a device that greatly speeds up experience then your Pokemon are facing milestones faster then they are intended to at that set point in the game. The result is the play through is easier.

    Now the problem here is that everyone plays differently. For those who choose to grind at every obstacle the exp share would just be a means to an end.
     
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  • Honestly, I feel like the single biggest reason why the games feel so effortless nowadays is because of Exp Share.

    Whether or not you feel Exp Share makes the games easier or just less time consuming is honestly a subjective appeal to semantics. What I believe and how I feel is that Exp Share significantly reduces the difficulty of the game because as someone else eloquently put it, it 'obviates' the need to grind and evenly distributes large quantities of experience across your entire team...

    The earlier games were much more challenging because you could generally only effortlessly level two pokemon at a time during battles. This is a huuuuge huge change in pace compared to the old games, and to be honest, the EXP candies are also worth mentioning because there are just so many of them... I actually remember growing one of my Pokemon from like... level 5 to level 60 using a couple of those XL candies and I was a bit horrified. It felt like I was using a gameshark. XD

    But other than that though... yes other changes could also be made. Like for example, trainers' Pokemon could have a higher AI and better moves, more items... I mean you could also have more difficult puzzles, and bring back the old HM mechanics, but maaaany people wouldn't welcome all of these changes. But I guess you just can't please everyone. :(
     
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