News Democrats move forward towards impeaching Trump.

[GreasyGarlic]

Ight, mane I believe you.

 

[EnglishALT]

To the best of my knowledge, either you can't try him while he's in office or it is extremely difficult. That's why they have to impeach and remove him from office before he can be tried for the criminal offences - or something like that. Anyone more in the know is welcome to correct me though.

As President if he were to be indicted, it would serve as a breach of the separation of powers, essentially giving the judicial branch power to remove the President on a whim, as such the President has to be removed first before he can be put on trial. However, the President also has the power to pardon a President, as seen when Ford pardoned Nixon after Nixon stepped down, but there is no set law on if the President can pardon himself.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1QF1D3

 

[gimmepie]

but there is no set law on if the President can pardon himself.

Well that needs to be fixed.

 

[Nah]

Now Trump's publicly gone and asked China to investigate the Bidens:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/03/us/politics/trump-china-bidens.html

 

[Kanzler]

Now Trump's publicly gone and asked China to investigate the Bidens:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/03/us/politics/trump-china-bidens.html

I'm sure China's already investigated the Bidens and the Clintons and the Trumps for that matters ten times over. But I think they care about keeping the economic and diplomatic relationship favorable and wouldn't let Trump on the scoop if they had it.

 

[Sektor]

Oops! Biden is found with his son's Ukrainian business buddies? Biden is tanking hard right now. He's on a knife edge and if any dem really wants the ticket they just need to make a little push.

There isn't anything here except Schiff making a mockery of the Democratic party again with his crazy bug-eyes. Pelosi backed up Schiff so now she has egg on her face again. Finger waving Sanders is pretty much kaput as well with his heart attack news. The Democrats look like they decided to open up a wax museum on Mercury.

The best advice I think the Dems can get is to shut up and sit down because everything they try explodes in their faces like a bottle of rancid carbonated feces. Every single push they have for impeaching President Trump has ended in abysmal failure and resignations from leakers and pushers alike. Eggs for everyone!

 

[Nah]

i wouldn't really say that there's "nothing here" and that the dems need to "shut up and sit down"

trump literally just publicly did what the impeachment inquiry is accusing him of: asking a foreign government to give him an advantage in our election....and after he was cleared of doing that with russia in the mueller report at that

but i don't really expect people who can't/don't want to see it to see it

 

[thomas313]

He acts pretty weird sometimes... For example, after the procedure of his impeachment has started - he began to ask China to investigate the Bidens case. Here it is (source: https://chicagomorningstar.com/china-should-investigate-the-bidens-says-trump). What can you say about these news? And what can you say about his behavior? Is he ok, or not so?

 

[AlolanRattata]

It has essentially become the issue that will decide the 2020 election. I do not expect them to have it resolved by then and, as a result, people will likely cast their vote on the basis of whether or not they want President Trump impeached.

 

[EnglishALT]

It's a month old but taking the advice from the Democrats thread I will push this back up, I hope Her doesn't mind.

There was a rather stunning admission in today's hearing.

"The president never told you about any preconditions for aid?

No

The president never told you about any preconditions for a White House meeting?

No"

https://twitter.com/repandybiggsaz/status/1197193935157972992

This continues the long trend of witnesses saying they did not see anything criminal.

 

[TailsMK4]

The whole impeachment thing has been going on even before Trump got elected (there were people wanting to impeach Trump BEFORE he even took office, and that is proven to be true), so I'm not surprised to see that anything the Democrats are coming up with are getting debunked by their own witnesses (for those that argue otherwise, remember that news outlets don't tell the whole story. I find recordings of the actual testimony to be much more reliable than a journalist's report). I'm more looking towards the date of December 11, where the IG Report is going to be discussed regarding the findings of looking into the procedure by the Democrats that looked into Trump's 2016 campaign. I don't have high expectations of what will come out of that report, since I'm sure there's some bias in that report, much like the extreme bias found in the Mueller report. Considering how Democrats have been running their side of things, I will personally find the findings of the IG Report to be much more creditable, but certainly open to debate.

 

[Corrin]

I don't know anything about US shit so please forgive me if I sound stupid here but:
What's with this obsession about Russia?
Why do Americans seem to hate Russians? The cold war is over this makes no sense
Why is it bad if he talks to president of the Ukraine or to Putin?
Why do people think Russia interfered with the election? Why would they do that? Doesn't Putin dislike trump? Wouldn't he try to make Hillary win?
And why is it bad if Trump does want a more positive relationship with Russia? Wouldn't that be a good thing? If superpower countries are on good terms isn't that a relief?

I need to make it clear that I am a leftist and I don't even like Trump and I don't agree with the shit hes doing but is Russia/former soviet countries specifically so bad?

 

[Neil Peart]

I don't know anything about US shit so please forgive me if I sound stupid here but:
What's with this obsession about Russia?
Why do Americans seem to hate Russians? The cold war is over this makes no sense
Why is it bad if he talks to president of the Ukraine or to Putin?
Why do people think Russia interfered with the election? Why would they do that? Doesn't Putin dislike trump? Wouldn't he try to make Hillary win?
And why is it bad if Trump does want a more positive relationship with Russia? Wouldn't that be a good thing? If superpower countries are on good terms isn't that a relief?

I need to make it clear that I am a leftist and I don't even like Trump and I don't agree with the shit hes doing but is Russia/former soviet countries specifically so bad?

You clearly don't know anything about what's going on with US politics if you don't know that Russia did indeed interfere with the 2016 election. That's part of the obsession, and in some cases, it's warranted. Cyberterrorism is a real thing, and based on how much more of our lives computers control with time, it's a scary thing that is not to be taken lightly. So, you take scary thing + US nationalism, and you get Russia paranoia, fear, and hatred. Then you have the groups who hate Putin because he's an autocratic asshole who stifles dissent with everything from imprisonment to death, and rules over a human rights nightmare for the marginalized.

Ignore whatever fantasy you have about Trump supposedly wanting a more positive relationship with Russia. He doesn't give a rat's ass at the end of the day. Mostly because, Trump is a puppet of Putin, because that's exactly how Putin wanted it all along. Trump wasn't a gift to the US from Putin, he was a "fuck you" to the US from Putin.

I should note that I am not a nationalist; hell, I don't even care about the US anymore. I left because of Trump, but he was merely the last straw.

 

[EnglishALT]

I don't know anything about US muk so please forgive me if I sound stupid here but:
What's with this obsession about Russia?
Why do Americans seem to hate Russians? The cold war is over this makes no sense
Why is it bad if he talks to president of the Ukraine or to Putin?
Why do people think Russia interfered with the election? Why would they do that? Doesn't Putin dislike trump? Wouldn't he try to make Hillary win?
And why is it bad if Trump does want a more positive relationship with Russia? Wouldn't that be a good thing? If superpower countries are on good terms isn't that a relief?

I need to make it clear that I am a leftist and I don't even like Trump and I don't agree with the muk hes doing but is Russia/former soviet countries specifically so bad?

Alright a lot of questions but some of them can be answered together so I will do the best I can for you.

Russia, while the Cold War is over, is still a geopolitical foe of the US, they expand their influence and support people that are very much against the US, such antagonism has been debated back and forth between Republicans and Democrats since 2008 when Russia invaded Georgia.

In 2016, Russia tried to hack both the Democratic Party and Republican Party servers, doing that they were successfully able to get emails from the Democratic Party server showing some less than savory things done by the Democratic Party on behalf of Hillary Clinton.

Russia then used Wikileaks to slowly drip out the emails throughout the election cycle in an attempt to hurt Hillary Clinton, during that time Russia took out some ads and made Facebook groups in an attempt to support Trump or to drum up support for divisive issues.

Democrats believed that Trump helped coordinate all of this with Russia to win the election, a view pushed by Hillary the day after she lost. We finally know there was no coordination but it still remains a fringe conspiracy theory.

On the topic of Putin and Trump, he doesn't necessarily like Trump or not, it was more about trying to sow discord in the US, and poke at Hillary who they believed would win the election. I am not sure when Putin and Hillary started hating each other, as Hillary was part of the famous photo in 2009 when the Obama Administration tried to "reset" relations with Russia.

As for Ukraine, there is no problem with Trump talking to the President of Ukraine persay, but during that time Trump had frozen some security funds Ukraine was supposed to get, while he pushed for Ukraine to open a corruption investigation into the corrupt activities of Joe Biden's son in Ukraine, Joe Biden's son basically got a six figure salary from a Ukrainian company in return for selling access to the Obama White House.

So the belief is that Trump tried to use government power (Ukrainians security funds) to get Ukraine to open a damaging political investigation into his rival's (Joe Biden) son.

I know it's a lot of information but I hope it helps.

 

[Corrin]

You clearly don't know anything about what's going on with US politics if you don't know that Russia did indeed interfere with the 2016 election. That's part of the obsession, and in some cases, it's warranted. Cyberterrorism is a real thing, and based on how much more of our lives computers control with time, it's a scary thing that is not to be taken lightly. So, you take scary thing + US nationalism, and you get Russia paranoia, fear, and hatred. Then you have the groups who hate Putin because he's an autocratic asshole who stifles dissent with everything from imprisonment to death, and rules over a human rights nightmare for the marginalized.

Ignore whatever fantasy you have about Trump supposedly wanting a more positive relationship with Russia. He doesn't give a rat's ass at the end of the day. Mostly because, Trump is a puppet of Putin, because that's exactly how Putin wanted it all along. Trump wasn't a gift to the US from Putin, he was a "fuck you" to the US from Putin.

I should note that I am not a nationalist; hell, I don't even care about the US anymore. I left because of Trump, but he was merely the last straw.

Please read the beginning where I do indeed say I know nothing about the US.
Then read the end where I say I do not like Trump at all, I just don't know any of this which is why I asked, I think you were quite rude and presumptive there. I just remember when people were saying he wanted to have a relationship with Russia or whatever.

@EnglishALT thank you for explaining it all to me! So I'm guessing they wish to impeach him because he tried to dig up dirt on Biden's son?

 

[Nah]

So I'm guessing they wish to impeach him because he tried to dig up dirt on Biden's son?

To be more specific, they want to impeach Trump because he asked a foreign government (Ukraine) to aid him in our upcoming presidential election by trying to get them to dig up dirt on the son of one of his most likely opponents, and deliberately withheld aid to said country to force them to agree to it.

 

[TailsMK4]

To be more specific, they want to impeach Trump because he asked a foreign government (Ukraine) to aid him in our upcoming presidential election by trying to get them to dig up dirt on the son of one of his most likely opponents, and deliberately withheld aid to said country to force them to agree to it.

Which so far has not been proven to be true, at least without any doubt. I will admit I have not entirely been following the impeachment proceedings (why would I when this whole process of trying to impeach Trump has been happening since before he got elected?), so I am not saying Trump is entirely innocent, but a lot of news outlets do not tell the entire story. Both Democrats and Republican representatives have been questioning witnesses, and they all have their own methods of questioning, but so far both sides have produced results that debunk the theory that ties the withhold aid to Trump's demands to aid his presidential campaign.

In a sense, the question is, what was the intent of the withhold aid? Democrats are trying to prove, at the expense of taxpayer's money, that Trump wanted dirt on Biden. Republicans, meanwhile, aim their questions at confirming their stance that the reason was because Trump still suspected Ukraine of being corrupt, which if proven true (I am not sure it is 100% at this point, since everyone is still having to be on the defensive), is entirely legal for the president to do.

However, I've been convinced that the exchange with the president of Ukraine is just something the Democrats are clinging onto to try to find ways to get rid of a president that was elected by the people when Democrats wanted their own to win. So, I'm not really buying any arguments from the left, and I'm hoping, but not banking on, the IG Report on December 11 will at least confirm some part of the theory that came from the right.

 

[Neil Peart]

Which so far has not been proven to be true, at least without any doubt. I will admit I have not entirely been following the impeachment proceedings (why would I when this whole process of trying to impeach Trump has been happening since before he got elected?), so I am not saying Trump is entirely innocent, but a lot of news outlets do not tell the entire story. Both Democrats and Republican representatives have been questioning witnesses, and they all have their own methods of questioning, but so far both sides have produced results that debunk the theory that ties the withhold aid to Trump's demands to aid his presidential campaign.

In a sense, the question is, what was the intent of the withhold aid? Democrats are trying to prove, at the expense of taxpayer's money, that Trump wanted dirt on Biden. Republicans, meanwhile, aim their questions at confirming their stance that the reason was because Trump still suspected Ukraine of being corrupt, which if proven true (I am not sure it is 100% at this point, since everyone is still having to be on the defensive), is entirely legal for the president to do.

However, I've been convinced that the exchange with the president of Ukraine is just something the Democrats are clinging onto to try to find ways to get rid of a president that was elected by the people when Democrats wanted their own to win. So, I'm not really buying any arguments from the left, and I'm hoping, but not banking on, the IG Report on December 11 will at least confirm some part of the theory that came from the right.

I find it pretty funny that you underline the "investigation at the expense of taxpayers" bit. Sure, that could be an issue for some, but I hope you had the same itching for emphasis when republicans were opening a new investigation on Benghazi or Clinton's email server every week -- funded with the good help of the American taxpayer, of course. Stop trying to control the narrative. All investigations of criminal wrongdoing by the state are funded with tax dollars; you aren't breaking any news or stoking any further ire by saying that.

Even funnier: one of Trump's own loyalists just ratted him out as absolutely engaging in QPQ. Yes, Sondland was a Trump appointee. So, what you're saying is, he's less credible than a man who has been caught lying literally hundreds of times? Why would a man who was hired to a cushy job by president shit-for-brains want to lie his way out of that job?

EVEN EVEN funnier: your insistence that the Democrats are trying to get rid of a president elected by the people. How soon the right-wingers among us forget that he was not elected by a majority of Americans; not even close. He was helped by a gerrymandered map and some Russians, as well as an intensely flawed Democratic candidate. And you trying to reduce this to some kind of revenge game the Democrats are playing, when anyone with two brain cells to rub together can look at the evidence in front of them and determine that this is a worthy investigation. Trump was already an impeachment proceeding waiting to happen; they just needed the hard evidence. Now, they have it. Kiss your boy goodbye.

 

[Maedar]

Nunes is making it even worse for Trump. This morning, he compared what Trump did to the Jay Treaty, signed by George Washington, and claimed that if this were 1794, Democrats would want to impeach him for it. Seriously, that's what he said.

Edit: Tails, question. Why do you think this IG Report will be any different? It's become almost a quarterly running gag, with Trump's defenders insisting each IG Report will have some incriminating evidence against the DNC. Face reality, this next IG Report will be no different than the others.

 

[EnglishALT]

Even funnier: one of Trump's own loyalists just ratted him out as absolutely engaging in QPQ. Yes, Sondland was a Trump appointee. So, what you're saying is, he's less credible than a man who has been caught lying literally hundreds of times? Why would a man who was hired to a cushy job by president muk-for-brains want to lie his way out of that job?

Interesting you say that considering that later on in the hearing Sondland admitted there was NO QPQ.

https://twitter.com/repandybiggsaz/status/1197193935157972992

He was helped by a gerrymandered map and some Russians.

Wait... entire states are now gerrymandered? I know there are complaints about districts but now state lines? So the Pennsylvania as a whole is gerrymandered? Michigan? Wisconsin?

Edit: Tails, question. Why do you think this IG Report will be any different? It's become almost a quarterly running gag, with Trump's defenders insisting each IG Report will have some incriminating evidence against the DNC. Face reality, this next IG Report will be no different than the others.

The report has already been forwarded for criminal prosecution, it may be a nothing burger, but on the other hand, we may see some people go to jail over it.

Edit: New poll shows support for impeachment dropping to the low 40s with support from independents is falling through the floor.

Support for impeachment has flipped since October from 48% support with 44% opposing to now 45% opposed and 43% in support. The biggest swing is among Independents, who oppose impeachment now 49% to 34%, which is a reversal from October where they supported impeachment 48% to 39%.

https://emersonpolling.reportablene...nes-biden-and-sanders-lead-democratic-primary

Politico/Morning Consultant seems to have found the same thing.

Opposition by independents to the House's ongoing impeachment inquiry jumped 10 percentage points in the last week, according to a Politico–Morning Consult poll released Tuesday.

The poll showed 47 percent of independents opposed the inquiry, compared to 37 percent last week. Meanwhile support for the inquiry by independents fell 7 points to 40 percent.

Support for the inquiry among all respondents fell 2 points to 48 percent, while opposition to it rose 3 points to 45 percent.

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/...o-impeachment-inquiry-jumps-10-points-in-last