Debate Abortion

The thing is, Gimmepie, most pro-lifers think the pro-choice crowd is "pro-abortion".

Contrary to what they claim, the United States has never had a "100% pro-choice" policy. Late term abortion has ALWAYS been considered murder in this country.

I agree, as a lifelong Democrat, there should be limits. Second trimester maximum, and legitimate reasons given when the mother is perfectly capable of raising the child. However, laws that pro-lifers try to pass that would force a teenage rape victim to carry the child to term are downright cruel, and lawmakers who try to pass "trap-laws" designed to force clinics into closing by demanding they have hospital-level facilities are not fooling anyone but themselves. "Personhood" law proposals are the worst.

The biggest desire Democrats have is a return to lucidity in our government, and for lawmakers to stop regarding us as a bunch of gullible suckers.

What that article described is outrightly stupid and I seriously hope those laws don't get approved. Like I said, I'm pro-choice and I believe none of us have the right to decide for others. What we can do, however, is make an informed decision and help others make an informed decision too.

About some points:

We can't say with 100% certainty that a fetus in development is just a clump of cells. But we also can't say with 100% certainty that it isn't. So let everyone decide for themselves. Debating is good, but not imposing your believes.

About biological females making the full decision of aborting, for one, there are ways of preventing a pregnancy. I won't touch on how people feel about the procedure of abortion itself, but I do wish it was legal yet that the need for it was much less common that it probably is.

On the note of the biological males being consulted about the abortion, obvs if it's rape then they shouldn't have a say at all. But if the act was consentiual, but, say, it was an accident that despite their care they still got pregnant, and the biological female doesn't want the baby at all, maybe they should at least ask about the other parent's opinion. Maybe there's an agreement that can be reached through communication, or if the female doesn't want the child, their partner would at least be able to voice their opinions. I do think they should at least know about the pregnancy, and in an ideal world, both parents should decide what to do together.

Overall, I just don't think these kind of things should be taken so lightly.

Note: I used "biological female/male" to talk about people who were born with either sex. I'm not referring to whichever gender they prefer to go by.

Here's another one. Hear of this story?

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/alab...raige-manslaughter_n_5d14afc2e4b09ad014fba030

Or this one?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...ed-immediately-feticide-conviction-overturned

"Pro-lifers", right, this is misogyny, and it has gone too far. Are we not a civilized nation??

oh yeah I remember that Alabama one

iirc fortunately the charges were dropped or something

still kind of fucked up though, but Alabama is also one of our most backwards states so it's not unexpected that it even happened in the first place

Maedar said:

Here's another one. Hear of this story?

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/alab...raige-manslaughter_n_5d14afc2e4b09ad014fba030

Or this one?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...ed-immediately-feticide-conviction-overturned

"Pro-lifers", right, this is misogyny, and it has gone too far. Are we not a civilized nation??

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I disagree that either case is "misogyny".

Case 1 was kind of stupid but they'd charge her if an innocent bystander that wasn't a fetus was shot and killed due to her actions. Ambivalent on it.

Case 2 was a viable or almost viable fetus (based on which side you agree with) that died. A doctor who helped look for the discarded baby stated it would have been born moving. Can't find anything on what the jury was composed of for this case.

Getting back on the topic of abortion and not a Republican/Democrat mukfest.... I have been wondering if a father has no say on if a mother gets an abortion. Then should we also change on how we force fathers to pay child support for the child they fathered?

It seems only fair that if a mother gets to choose to keep the child or not, then the father should be able to choose if he wants to pay for it or not.

I think it's more decent for them to discuss it and make the best decision together, but a lot of guys just knock girls up then leave them, which I think is wrong.

Dimitri said:

I think it's more decent for them to discuss it and make the best decision together, but a lot of guys just knock girls up then leave them, which I think is wrong.

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At which point I imagine you pretty much forfeit the chance to give your opinion.

gimmepie said:

At which point I imagine you pretty much forfeit the chance to give your opinion.

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Yes thats when i think they should not be allowed, or considered. If you want to have sex like that use protection or pay the girl whos life you changed forever.

EnglishALT said:

Getting back on the topic of abortion and not a Republican/Democrat mukfest.... I have been wondering if a father has no say on if a mother gets an abortion. Then should we also change on how we force fathers to pay child support for the child they fathered?

It seems only fair that if a mother gets to choose to keep the child or not, then the father should be able to choose if he wants to pay for it or not.

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For someone who put forward a pro-life stance earlier it seems incredibly strange to me that you would advocate leaving a living child without financial security.


To answer your question though, absolutely you should be able to opt out. It should be a legal thing that bars you from any access to the child. If we had a state that adequately cared for those who need it this would be fine.

Getting back on the topic of abortion and not a Republican/Democrat mukfest.... I have been wondering if a father has no say on if a mother gets an abortion. Then should we also change on how we force fathers to pay child support for the child they fathered?

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If the father sired the child via consensual sex, yes.

If the pregnancy was due to rape or incest, NO, the criminal responsible should have no say, and a sane judge should fine him for even wasting the court's time.