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Old March 4th, 2018 (10:55 AM).
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Maki-Nishikino Maki-Nishikino is offline
love live/Final Fantasy fan
     
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    i honestly dont want to see PC die despite what has been said im still considering donating something to TPC once i have spare cash and ive got my disability stuff as i would likely have more funds to do stuff
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    Old March 4th, 2018 (11:09 AM).
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    Just wanna say that I'm quite happy that this whole thing is moving forward; I still love PC with all my heart, and I'll be most happy to help out wherever possible. I basically quit because I couldn't take the stress of it all...

    I can attest that those last days were quite difficult and stressful for us all; it wasn't good for anyone. But they say time can heal, and if we're going to another direction, I'm happy to support that! I'm really hoping that things will grow even better overtime; just needs hard work and dedication. <33
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    Old March 4th, 2018 (11:20 AM).
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Sheep View Post
    I want to clarify that this was a rumor, not a reveal. As as an admin who was around the entire time these accusations were thrown around, I have not seen any sort of evidence to prove it was actually true. None of us want to act on the basis of rumors; it's not healthy for the people involved nor the community itself.

    Regardless, some people are clearly going to be unhappy with Jake being a community administrator, which was something every single one of us expected would happen. Serious work and transparency will need to be put in to restore people's trust in him, if that is even a possibility to begin with. I'll wait until he wakes up to see and address these points, as it's his responsibility.
    My apologies, I didn't actually mean to write revealed, since there is no definitive proof as you say. I have changed the wording in my original post to rumoured, since that's exactly what it was. However, not acting on rumours can be as bad as reacting badly to them. It's important, when rumours surface, that they are dealt with in a thorough, thought-out and appropriate manner. Especially when such rumours are accusations of fraud, or other illegal acts.

    I have also come to learn that the order of events wasn't as a lot of people seem convinced of, that the rumours of fraud came THEN the reveal about Steve, rather that first was revealed the situation with Steve, and someone has tried to throw HStaff under bus shortly after. Whilst this does change a few mindsets, in my opinion it doesn't entirely change the steps that should have been taken to mitigate backlash and aid recovery for the site. As you say, Janna, people will still be unhappy with Jake as an admin, and changing that at this point is a mean task, considering not everyone is open to accepting changes in the little information we have.

    And that is exactly the hardest part about all of this, the lack of information. Whilst of course it's clear that these are only rumours, and shouldn't be taken off-the-bat as fact, they arise from somewhere, and while that somewhere is unknown, it's hard to disprove as well as prove, and the timing of the reveals doesn't help one bit. Which makes the predicament all the worse.
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    Old March 4th, 2018 (11:29 AM).
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    Klippy Klippy is offline
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    I already gave my opinion on Steve and his role in PC's slow and obvious turmoil - none of which began this last week alone - so I won't get into it. It's the only good call that could be made to even give PC a chance to be successful again.

    The handling of this entire week's drama by the FORMER higher staff of this forum was an absolute joke and a travesty to order and the "authority" they had as leaders. The fact that the first decision wasn't to force Steve out (which is now the end result - and despite that, I'm sure the publicity helped quicken his removal), but to instead reveal to 50 or so staff members what occurred 30+ years ago was such an obviously bad mistake that it can't help but feel like an excuse to push this new other forum idea and try to swindle away members. The person that found this info, as I understand it, is so eager to cause drama and chaos that the entire thing seems like a rigged setup just to see what would happen. Add in that it was so evident the info would leak to the forum at-large and I can't help but feel like the members of this forum were deceived by those members of the staff and it's almost equivalent to the media in America generating discord and animosity among its citizens for their own personal benefit.

    Add to that that many mods and staff members felt pressured to hastily resign and throw their entire history and memory of this site to the wind, unsure of this site's future or their place on it, and you can see how pathetically this series of events went. It's even more of a blessing that the ones who concocted the gaslighting of their peers, their forum, and their members are gone - and refuse to return.

    The five "new"? admins are each valuable members of staff and have shown that through years of dedication and effort. Jake, for all his faults, is no thief and I've known him for many years. I fully trust that he has done nothing immoral with my donated money or yours and, even more so, I trust the women who support his remaining an admin if they are confident in him. The most obvious reason being that Jake had no access to the money for this forum and it only went through Rukario and his own accounts, the second being that Jake cares too much for PC to harm it like that, despite whatever faults he may have otherwise.

    As I said in my CQ thread, PC's only future relied on Steve leaving, so I commend him for accepting the obvious and resigning without much argument. I don't (personally) think he deserved to be outed as some sort of criminal for something he was clearly punished for as the law requires and was trying to maintain (as far as we know) a clean life and a lawful life. The fact that his history was outed like it was was totally uncool and I am willing to bet nobody on here would appreciate the entire forum knowing mistakes they've made in their life. If the issue was current or something seriously threatening, the series of events may have been warranted (and the staff has removed and permanently banned actual threats to its members in the past with proof). All of this combined makes me think it was done to start up an alternate forum and try to pull as many members as possible from PC, while not actually caring about Steve's past. I do consider his abuses of this forum's value and importance to many as a far more recent reason to remove him, but I also completely understand the need to remove him for his history as well - which all could have been done in a much more professional way.
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    Old March 4th, 2018 (11:54 AM).
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    Ash Ketchup Ash Ketchup is offline
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      I am so glad to see the staff are working towards a solution that will keep the community together, this place is special and a home to many, let's hope it stays that way for many more years.

      However, I do have two reservations with this announcement:

      First, the issue of keeping staff accused of wrong doing.

      I am a great believer in "innocent until proven guilty" and find the whole trial by (social) media craze to be deeply unjust. With that said, I am not like most people on the internet and keeping staff who have been accused of various forms of inappropriate behaviour - and I don't mean Steve - is a sure fire way to bring about the end of PC in the long run.

      People on media sites ranging from twitter to reddit and 4chan will keep burying PC until eventually it can't get up again. If these staff are to remain then PC better find a way to clear their names thoroughly or ask them to step aside. It is something that needs a lot of consideration, obfuscation wont help anyone.


      Second, some of the behaviour when people were "burning" the forum was extremely rude, inappropriate and downright childish.

      This site has many young members and seeing some of the things they had to read was heartbreaking, they didn't know and it wasn't their fault. I appreciate that PC will need as much normality as possible to stabilise and move onwards but I hope that any staff members that were involved in such behaviour think long and hard about their actions before retaking their positions.

      Wow, I'm really cheery today!

      Good luck everyone :pink_smile:
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      Old March 4th, 2018 (12:16 PM). Edited March 4th, 2018 by Disturbed.
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      Disturbed Disturbed is offline
       
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      I'm just going to use this thread as a way to finally share my own opinions, as I've mostly been keeping them to myself.

      I've been coming to PC since around 2004. I first signed up in 2006, and then made this account in 2008 and was active for a while. It was painful to see a place that I had been able to frequent for half my life go to such ruin. What upset me is how the staff reacted to the news. Extremely quickly after the announcement was made public to staff, we had someone quitting. Shortly after, more and more followed, and the way a lot of them quit was anything but graceful. Instead of letting things settle for a while and giving careful thought to what had happened and taking a more mature approach, a lot of people acted very emotionally. I don't really blame anyone for being emotional during this, but things could have been handled a lot better IMO.

      Now, I want to speak about Jake. Not me, but Admin-of-Pokecommunity Jake. Right off the bat, I want to make it clear that I have no ill feelings towards him. In fact, I feel really bad for him. People he probably considered to be close friends all immediately jumped at his throat and branded him a bad person, and he doesn't deserve that. Not in my opinion, at least. At first, upon hearing the rumors about Jake, I was upset with what I had heard, but despite hearing this from sources I consider to be very credible, I don't exactly know if I can consider anything I saw as 'proof' until I see actual...well, tangible proof. I guess I'm just remaining... idk, cautious? Aware? Not sure what the word I'm looking for is. Anyways, I've spoken with Jake on numerous occasions in the past and considered him a close friend. In fact, I still do. However, a lot of people, staff included, do have issue with his leadership abilities and issues with trusting him in general. As harsh as this has all been for him, I hope he takes this all and uses people's reactions and the feedback given to him as a way to improve himself as an Admin. In all honesty, it really might be best for him to step down for now and let someone else take the reins. Not step down from staff completely, but from a leadership role, seeing as such a large portion of the userbase has negative feelings towards him. Regardless of how good he might be as a leader, especially now, having an Admin that so many users distrust and dislike just isn't good for the health of the community. For what it's worth, I was one of the ones who was happy to see him be promoted back to Admin a couple months back. EDIT: I just want to make it clear that in the long run, I'd still like him to be admin, but he obviously has a lot of thinking to do.

      Now, the last thing I want to address is the divide. When the news hit, within a day, a good 90% of my friends joined Escape Rope's discord, including myself. In fact, I'm an admin of that Discord server. While I still had friends on PC, almost all of them moved on to ER, so it made sense for me to move on to there and dedicate my time and effort to shaping up that place. However, due to the news in this front post, this is causing a much greater divide. Some of the people that joined ER are going back to PC. Some are even quitting because we're losing people. It's really upsetting to me, especially knowing that my reason for coming back from almost a decade long hiatus, the dev-lounge in PC's discord, is now permanently divided. We lost so many great people recently and holy muk does it hurt. I guess I'm kind of rambling at this point, but I wanted to get all my feelings out.

      As of right now, moving forward, I'm still going to be an Admin on Escape Rope's Discord server. I'm still going to be a Moderoid on PC's Discord server (seeing as I never left and was temporarily the only one actually moderating the chat). I just want to be with all of my friends again and have them all in the same place.

      I just want to conclude this by saying that these are really just my own personally feelings towards the matter. I respect and understand the choices that everyone in staff made, and I more or less trust the judgment of all of you over my own, haha. No ill-feelings towards anyone. I just wish we weren't in the situation we're in.
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      Old March 4th, 2018 (12:21 PM).
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      Morkula Morkula is offline
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      I had a big post planned out in my head for when I got home (which I just did), but Klippy pretty much said most of I was going to post.

      But I do want to highlight one thing in particular:
      Quote:
      Originally Posted by Klippy View Post
      The most obvious reason being that Jake had no access to the money for this forum and it only went through Rukario and his own accounts
      I've seen this BS conspiracy theory about Jake embezzling money from PC or committing fraud being thrown around like it's fact. It's not. There is absolutely no proof of Jake doing anything illicit with supporter funds. I've been close friends with Jake for almost half of our lives now, and I know that he wouldn't even consider doing the things he's being accused of. He cares way too much about PC - in fact, in all my years on staff, there have been very few people that consistently cared about PC and its well-being and been dedicated to PC more than Jake.

      But, feelings aren't facts, and just because I trust Jake doesn't mean that other people have to. But regardless of how you may feel towards Jake as a person or how well you know him, this single fact should be enough to bury that accusation once and for all: there's no way that Jake could have been misusing supporter money or embezzling money from PC, because Steve is the only person that has ever had access to donation funds.

      So stop with the garbage conspiracy theories and baseless accusations. It's not helping your case and it's only helping sow division and prevent the community from healing.

      Which brings me to my other point...

      The conduct of some people throughout all of this has been nothing short of appalling, and the more I hear about it the more I'm inclined to agree with Klippy that this whole ordeal was in large part an excuse to burn PC to the ground and poach members for their "new" place. I realize a lot of good people have migrated to Escape Rope, but the more I hear about it, the less I want to have anything to do with it.

      True, there are plenty of people with good intentions, like Marcin has alluded to in his posts (and Marcin himself, though I do disagree with him on points). A lot of them have legitimate concerns and reasons why they no longer feel comfortable being on PC. But a few bad apples spoil the whole bunch, and the constant trolling, peddling of baseless bullmuk conspiracy theories, spamming up the forums, and outright aggression towards people who didn't want to burn PC to the freaking ground have already made that place toxic in my eyes.

      There's been plenty of absolutely disgusting remarks on Discord and even a ridiculous attempt at forming a 4chan mob, but you don't even have to look further than this very thread to see the toxicity. The fact that a lot of this type of conduct is coming from some of the very same ex-staff members that spearheaded Escape Rope raises a whole ton of red flags for me. It's especially sad because some of the people I've seen peddling those conspiracy theories and acting out in this way are people I've considered good friends in the past (and many of them that I still do).

      Hell, I'd even say that the majority of staff members that I've talked to that resigned said they didn't do so because of the accusations against Steve and Jake, but because they felt pressured to the breaking point. Or even worse, that they felt that they would be threatened and targeted if they didn't leave PC. It seems to me that it's been bordering on bullying at some points - psychological bullying, if nothing else. That's beyond sad.

      I know there are a lot of people at ER that simply don't feel comfortable staying on PC or want to move on from here while preserving their community. But those people need to rein in those among them that are being flat-out toxic and who've made it their mission to troll/flame/harass and stoke the fires trying to keep PC burning. Otherwise, they're going to get a very negative reputation, and I'd have my doubts about the two communities being able to co-exist peacefully.

      Finally, to those who aren't satisfied with Steve still being around...be patient. Steve isn't just someone that can be fired on the spot or who can just walk away. He literally owns PC, he runs the server, he's in charge of all the finances, and there are a lot of things that have to be ironed out and dealt with before ownership can be transferred to someone else. You can't expect all that to happen overnight, and if Steve were to walk away right now the forums would be even more of a dumpster fire because there would be no funding, no server, he owns the domain name and such, etc. There's a lot that needs to be done in the interim before Steve can well and truly step away from PC.

      Just be patient - things are moving in the right direction. It just takes time.
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      Old March 4th, 2018 (12:44 PM).
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      I don't really understand this whole "this was all just a plot to destroy PC and promote a new website" train of thought.
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      Old March 4th, 2018 (12:49 PM).
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      Sydian Sydian is offline
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      I don't have some long bit of things to say. As a former super moderator here, it hurt a lot to see what's transpired over the past few days. On one hand, I'm glad to see that Steve is stepping out of the picture. I'll play nice and not air all my grievances because many of them are largely unrelated to the issue at hand. I hope the best for here, but I imagine I will be here even more infrequently. It's still home, though. No matter what happens to it. I just hate that all of this had to happen as it did.
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      Old March 4th, 2018 (12:50 PM).
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      EvilChameleon EvilChameleon is offline
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      This is all good news. Unless Steve doesn't actually give up control of the site, I'll still be posting here. I'm confident that we will have enough members here to keep things rolling, and with more people joining every day due to this site's prominence in the ROM hack community, we'll rebuild in no time.

      I hold no ill will to the Escape Rope people, nor do I think it was a power play by them to create a server with haste to get people talking. Hell, this is the third time I've gone through a divide like this (one even spawned THREE sites for members to seek refuge at), so I'm used to it.

      If people are still uncomfortable here, that's fine and completely understandable. All I know is it will be hard to build a member base on Escape Rope outside of the 200 or so people in that Discord server. I know the example people will bring up is ResetERA springing up from the ashes of NeoGAF, but that had thousands and thousands of members ready and communicating in tons of Discord servers, waiting for codes to join the new site.

      This just feels like the main PC Discord people splitting off and making a forum. That isn't to say it won't work. I'm sure it will, and I'll probably join just in case this "moving forward" plan fails and the site goes belly up.

      Anyway, I'm rambling at this point, so I'll just close it off here by saying I have made many friends here, and I will do my best to keep those people as friends, whether they stay here, join Escape Rope, post on both, or just bail on Pokemon forums in general.
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      Old March 4th, 2018 (1:09 PM).
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      Castform Castform is online now
       
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      If Steve is in fact gone and can work out an agreement with the current admins on complete transfer, I too think this is a good way to start. While it will take time to rebuild the community and earn the trust back of everyone(whether that trust was unfairly lost or not) I think PC has a bright future. After working with Hstaff I can say Steve often times held us back. Even with this situation aside, PC now has a better chance of moving forward, as long as there is transparency within HQ and things don't go back to like they were.

      As for Escape Rope being a member grab, I don't think that is true. Or, at least I don't think that is the case for anyone. I am currently working in the HQ planning of that site an no one is talking about a way to lure people away from PC. We are trying to establish a more modern and Discord integrated forum to be relevant. The drama surrounding PC definitely sparked the movement for ER but it was because we wanted to give users a place to go who felt uncomfortable here or if the place didn't survive. In fact the majority of us who are working on the site plan to continue helping both forums work alongside each other.

      In the end this situation could have been handled differently, but the outcome may not have been the same in the end. We could have contained this information better but then would Steve feel as motivated to hand the site over? probably not. We could have pursued it better but being in the situation we were in was incredibly stressful and something all of us just wanted resolved so we did what we thought was right. Everyone in the chat was incredibly worried about the potential outcome and I don't think anyone was seeking to destroy PC. It was just inevitable that the information would get out. Just no one expected this much of a downfall. At the end of the day though, the forum will still exist and become fun once more as long as it has dedicated members leading it and making it inviting for people to come.
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      Old March 4th, 2018 (1:24 PM).
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      lilbluedemon lilbluedemon is offline
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        I've been around since 2009, on various accounts though.

        I'm so glad the site is staying, and a few staff are too.
        Onwards, and upwards everyone!
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        Old March 4th, 2018 (1:26 PM).
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        The problem is now, that as much as we can condemn or defend certain individuals and their actions, what's done is done, and what needs to be the focus of staff right now is how best to move forward, and it needs to be meticulously thought out. Unfortunately, this isn't just some falling out like we may have seen in the past, and as such everyone, Staff and members alike, need to proceed with caution.

        From here, I'd like to begin by saying I hold no one any ill will, neither Jake nor the members of Staff who fled and founded ER, nor even those condemning the site. Hate and anger will bring us no further in this situation, and it's unfortunate that so many do feel that's the only way to behave. With such a controversial issue at hand, it's imperative that we try to remain as open-minded and tolerant as possible, so as to resolve any remaining issues and conflicts with as little stress and turmoil as possible.

        For this, in my own opinion, HStaff need to have a really good talk amongst one another about this situation with Jake, and then come forward transparently with the conclusions they have drawn. But to first talk away from all the prying eyes and scornful stares right now is important, and necessary for them to make any decisions they think is right. Similarly Jake himself really needs to think about his next steps, because he's been put in an incredibly tough position. Whether the rumours are true or not, to me, is neither here nor there since I've no access to any definitive proof. However what is important, is that these rumours surfaced, somehow, for some reason. And there will be people who will not at all be happy with him in a position of power, and who will make things much harder for PC's recovery in the long run because of this. This leaves him with a very hard decision to make, and I've already said before what I believe the best course of action for now would be, I wont repeat it.

        The members need to, if not already, calm down and just breathe. This isn't the apocalypse, and the place for chatting with your friends every day isn't going to disappear in an instant, if at all. Worst comes to worst, you have those who splintered off to start ER, and there you can find your friends again, if it comes to that. What we as members need to do, is be supportive of the staff in place right now, and be patient whilst they talk things over and settle the most immediate disputes and concerns raised towards them. Then when the time comes that they reveal their chosen course of action, remaining calm and reviewing that path, and giving helpful feedback to aid them, and support them is the next step. Burning them at the stake for one decision you disagree with is not the way to go, and not going to help anyone get anywhere, except more angry. Remember that the members of staff are working voluntarily in their free time, and are people like the rest of us. They have a breaking point. Don't push them to it.

        Staff should then listen to these reviews and decide how to react carefully and thoughtfully. Just like us the members need to remember you guys are humans, we're humans too with our own feelings and opinions, and care a lot about the forum whose future you're now in control of. At this point there's not much more to add since it'd be very hypothetical; we're not there yet after all. The most important thing for you all is to not focus on the hate that has surfaced in this thread and elsewhere, and rather on the constructive comments that people are bringing to the table. In this time you all need as much help as you can get, because this is not an easy situation to deal with under any circumstances, and in my opinion it's not at all fair on your guys how this has played out. However we can only play with the hand we've been dealt, and we're all playing on the same team (mostly; some people just want to watch the world burn), so we should focus now on what we can do to aid one another and help rebuild and regrow, as opposed to fighting each other and feeding the fire we would much rather put out.



        May have rambled there a bit...
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        Old March 4th, 2018 (1:33 PM). Edited March 4th, 2018 by Gabri.
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        Gabri Gabri is offline
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        Alright, so here's yet another comment from a PC fossil:

        The first thing I want to comment on is how this entire situation mirrored almost perfectly something that happens way too often in the real world: MISINFORMATION. One would think that, with the spread of the internet in recent years and the mass aggregation of stupidity that today's social media promotes, younger people that have a little more experience in navigating through a network and websites spanning multiple countries would be more careful about their sources of information, and not just trust the first or second thing they see or just catch a conversation in the middle and not get to the bottom of things. Everyone should know how rumours work - don't take them as gospel, even if something's true, we all should know that when you're told something by someone who heard from their cousin's girlfriend's sister's best friend's uncle, something is bound to be skimmed or exaggerated. Look at different, preferably independent souces, from both sides of the barricade, and consider only blunt facts and not opinions people say in the heat of the moment, and form your own opinion with thought. Go take a shower, or a muk, it's a way you can make information sit in and thoughts may be made clearer, instead of storming through all social channels demanding for a riot.

        The second thing, which is a little tied to the first too, is the way people quickly rush to have someone burnt at the stake for something that the justice system already gave their punishment too. But hey, if we think about it public executions in the Middle Ages had a lot of people watching as well... I am by no means defending Steve or his actions, or judging his character - hell, I don't know the guy - but it seems like five words in a text of 30k are something that casts a fog over all the rest. I do however understand the call for his retirement/removal from staff and the ownership of PC, and I do think it is be the best way to go, but it could have been handled way more delicately.
        I also understand why people might want to leave because they do not want this situation to affect their real life chances in any way, should things be widely known and their identities tied to this site.
        I hope people can understand as well that an ownership change doesn't take a week, perhaps not even a month, much less a single day. In this matter, there's not really much anyone can do other than waiting, because it needs time if it's going to be done properly.
        It also felt like there were a lot of people who actually didn't give a single muk, that they just wanted to see someone being stoned - again, somethng that happens with the general public too. What people want is to see someone on the high stands get psyducked. The rest doesn't matter. And there were loads others who seized the entire anarchic situation to talk muk about people they didn't like without fear of any punishment. And even here in this site, and even in this thread, I see perfectly avoidable drama that doesn't do anything at all to help, instead it only adds fuel to the fire.

        Lastly, about the new owner team - I do not know all of them, I am a fossil by PC standards but I spent a lot of those years not caring at all about even paying attention to hstaff's work outside of people I was friends with. That said, I honestly don't know about Jake or Erica's capabilities (neither am I doubting them), only that they have held these positions years ago - I could ask for opinions, but I won't make them my own as I want to see the work by myself. Poisoning wells does not work with me. I do however wish them the best of luck in getting this place on track. The three remaining members of the new admin team are people whose admin/mod work is more recent to me and as such I paid more attention to, and people who I have interacted with some more (a lot more, in Rika's case), and I fully trust their capabilities to run this place and work cohesively.

        I don't want this place to disappear. Whoever was running it through these years doesn't matter, the people I met are what made me stick around and this forum, this community, and the wonderful people I've met will always be part of my teenage years, and some of them further than that. I'd hate for that to go away over this, and surely many more must feel the same. I was just hoping that the folks that want to leave (again, it's fair) didn't feel the need to come flame the place, but that's not happening.

        Good luck to the new admin team. No need to beat further on this subject, everything that was worth saying has already been said, and even things that weren't worth saying. Let's start discussing the future.
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        Old March 4th, 2018 (1:39 PM). Edited March 4th, 2018 by Meganium.
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        Meganium Meganium is offline
         
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        I'm glad the situation is *kinda* over with. I was so worried with the many members who are leaving, especially when I wasn't really in the loop. I knew PC will bounce back as a stronger community after all this mess. I really want to come back to a strong and vibrant community where everyone is happy and enjoying life (on the internet lol).

        The last thing I want to see is PC gone. 8 years of memories are too precious, and being a staff member twice was an honor. So I am super happy that there's people out there who are willing to step up and help out with the community.

        Not much to say from me either, but again, I am very glad things are slowly going back to normal and heading to bigger and better things. <3
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        Old March 4th, 2018 (1:40 PM).
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        Dedenne1 Dedenne1 is offline
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        First I'd like to start off by saying that I think it is the absolute best thing for PC and it's members and former members that Steve resigned. Though I do not know the specifics of what he did, what lists he is on and if he took money from PC (which I don't believe he did) I think it was a good move to have him step down and for this group of Admins to take over whatever state PC is in right now.

        I've only been a part of PC for 4 years coming on 5 and to some that's a while but to many its a very short time. But, through that time, I've met a lot of people I have come to call my friends and acquaintances. And when the announcement or leak came out last week about Steve and his past I was shocked. It was really heartbreaking that the Owner of a place I spent 4 years of my childhood in and 3 just lurking was keeping secrets of such importance. At first, I assumed the worst jumped ship from the PC Discord (which is the only place I've really been active in for the last year) and hopped onto Escape Rope's discord with the promise of a community and a new forum. I think it's great how Dakota, Jake, other Admins and the planning group are working together to create a new forum and a new community for those that are not comfortable here. And here is what I really want to address.

        I don't know the specifics on if anyone in ER wanted PC to burn to the ground and create a new forum that would "steal" all the members. But from what I do know it is not the popular opinion. Those at ER created a place that members could go where they would feel safe and happy while the Admins here deal with this crisis. And they did it. Though things are by no means calm PC, Steve and other members are not the focus at ER. Friendships and Pokemon are. We joined PC to meet others that have our same interests. Though we all may have had a different specific reason that is the bulk of it. And when we were told that the owner had a history that made some of us uncomfortable, many of us freaked out. There was talk of leaving PC, deleting accounts and losing contact with people who seemed to support something they did not. And that totally devastated me. But, this is where I am extremely proud of those at Escape Rope who in my opinion by no means poached PC's members but rather created a safe and friendly place that can help members temporarily escape or enjoy forever. Instead of all of us leaving PC to burn and never look back we were provided with an entire channel to discuss what was happening. Instead of the Admins telling us the hell with PC they told us to NOT create spam threads, to NOT try to get banned and NOT be disrespectful. I am saddened by the actions of some dramatic members in that they added to the flames before any of the Admins here could even try to put out the fire.

        At this point I've rambled on awhile however, I want to just list my points. For me PC is a place where I grew up and met many people and while I don't know if I will be active with how things are currently I will not be deleting my account. I may return because I have hope in some of the Admins and Moderators to set things right with Steve stepping down now. In the meantime I will fully support Escape Rope and become a member of the forums when they become live. I believe in the admins and planners and plus, all my friends are there. Why would I not join a place where many of those that I met here were going? And why would I not continue to speak with them along with the countless other members that are not joining that left PC years ago? Though I think the Admins response here is well said and memorable I think Escape Rope was a better way to handle the news. There were certainly better options and better ways to handle the situation but we live and we learn. Ultimately, I do hope that the friendships that have become strained in this process mend over time and that both PokeCommunity and Escape Rope thrive in the future under better leadership.

        It has been amazing and stressful to go on this journey with all of you. I hope to keep in touch with all that I have met and one day return to meet new friends and new Staff~

        Thank you all for being, through stress, drama and sadness, a community,
        Dedenne1
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        Old March 4th, 2018 (2:08 PM).
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        Rabinov Rabinov is offline
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        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Nah View Post
        I don't really understand this whole "this was all just a plot to destroy PC and promote a new website" train of thought.
        This is what I want to see addressed - staff were notified about what happened and as a result decided to leave PC because of it of their own accord, it wasn't some elaborate ploy to boot PC and therefore steal its userbase, nor was it some 'plan' to see how much muk someone could cause. The fact that's been thrown around (especially the latter) personally, is ridiculous. Why does that section of staff wanting to then make a new community based on the knowledge they had - at the time, I must stress - equate to them poaching said members or to create Discord (pun intended)? Once it was realised there was elsewhere to go, people joined it of their own accord (whether to get away from PC or to see exactly why it had happened).

        In hindsight (20/20 vision baby), yes the way that the moving over was carried was in all honesty a complete mukshow. That definitely could have been handled much better considering; inversely with so many actions being done impulsively (due to emotions running high, which I can fully understand) I suppose the long-term impact at the time was perhaps not considered. Just like Steve relinquishing the forum was also not a factor when Escape Rope was set up and therefore that's why people are committing as much as they are towards setting up a new server/forum. I can't say I blame them, at the time it was done to try and at least preserve as many members as possible due to the fallout of what happened. HOWEVER there are generally no ill intentions and as someone within their HQ, it has never been the intention of creating ER as somewhere to contend PC if it is to remain.

        In terms of where I am to moving forward - like many others it seems, now that a major concern of me staying on here as a result (and another hopefully being dealt with), I will be looking at helping both areas out. I may not have been around PC as much as most people here, however it has been good enough a community to myself that I don't want to see it implode. I'm ashamed of the fact that my emotions have clearly got the better of me initially and caused me to leave and come back and be up/down with it all.
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        Old March 4th, 2018 (2:42 PM). Edited March 4th, 2018 by Ivysaur.
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        Ivysaur Ivysaur is offline
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        It may sound a bit callous, but I think there is something of a Weinstein effect behind all of this. As in, out of a sudden, stuff about Steve exploded into something unbearable that 'deserved' this kind of reaction. But I personally received leaks about all this for almost a week before it went public (I gave Nica a heads-up that 'something's happening about Steve' on Monday, I believe?). And then that day, the rumours were extremely rampant, and that sort of stuff is extremely hard to wash up once it's in the open. (I certainly want to apologise to Jake for my VM outburst in the minutes after I was told about the supposed thievery- he clearly did not deserve all of that from me, and I'm rattled and even wondering if I was told about it just because I wasn't particularly hot about him, which is really bad to think, but...).

        Nonetheless, plot or not, I'm sure most of the staff acted just out of personal self-preservation and also peer pressure. Before, the news about Steve were rumours that only some people knew about, after that, everybody knew that everybody knew so there wasn't much you could do other than leave or be branded an accomplice or something. I do wonder where this whole line of investigation came from though, because I started to hear questions about it from like... months ago? So it's not a completely new thing that started last month, certainly. And while it clearly wasn't the best crisis management act I have ever seen -at least not immediately-, you have to be blind or heartless not to see that the complaints have been heard, loud and clear, and the staff is doing its best to make amends. A chance is all it takes- it's not like most users noticed Steve's presence back then, and if all is done right, hopefully nobody will notice his absence either.

        If any leaving staff cares about my opinion- I'd give the new team a second chance. They are trying to right the wrongs. They care.
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        Old March 4th, 2018 (2:47 PM). Edited March 4th, 2018 by Vigilance.
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        Vigilance Vigilance is offline
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          Alright, I'd like to give some of my more elaborate thoughts here as well after reading. I've managed a fair number of online communities and I think I can provide some insight for the matters at hand. But first...everyone needs to calm down, take a deep breath and begin thinking a bit more slower. I think the talk of emotional actions is the thing that stuck out to me most. As warranted as that may have been, it hurt PC. Sometimes, things that are warranted, are not the best course of action. Being in a position of power, sometimes you have to sacrifice something that is warranted and take the other "road less traveled."

          Now...first off we are only concrete on two things:
          -Steve's immoral actions: As bad as these are, they honestly are his past (as we've been told). The only way to rectify this and be fully sure they don't affect the community would be to call for his resignation. That has happened. Admin Team: For the sake of clarity, don't accept financial help. You guys will do fine without it. It is more important to show that we've cut ties with Steve and PC is looking for reform.
          - Money irregularities: this one is the more important one. You guys have 669,000 some members and the majority of them have donated/are donating/will donate at some point. I can't berate your guys' lack of intelligibility enough. Forums of 5000 members know that when you start accepting money, you HAVE to be transparent with where it goes. That is on you. I won't be surprised if donations dry up. People don't trust you. It is on you to rectify that by revamping the entire donation aspect and seeing how you can gain members' trusts back. Janna, I have some ideas on that, my PMs are always open.

          NOW! We're done with what we know. We can all acknowledge something needed to be done about those 2 things and there is no doubting that. What now though? Well, first off, I'd like to formally ask you to pull your head out of your asses from the 2006-2010 period. We're living in 2018. I can't tell you how many replies here began with "I joined in 200X." If anything you should be the first to acknowledge the ever changing times and how PC failed to adapt with it. Don't get me wrong, we got members, but we failed to have a system in place to adapt to it. Hence we saw money issues, members issues and a general apathy and actual show of "being a dick" by members to one another. As we got bigger, we became more and more concerned with other things that took the focus off the members. As a result, the members grew unhappy!Who would have seen that coming right? Now the members have sensed their is chance for reform and they WANT that. They want change. They want the community they love and know as PC but they implore for change. But it seems like we might be heading back to the 2006.

          Here are my suggestions. Get rid of stuff. Use this unfortunate week in hell to revamp PC as it is known. Don't focus on billybobpeter who you knew in 2007, focus on someone who joined at the start of 2018. Get rid of outdated themes, topics, sections etc and focus it on being geared towards the future. Turn over that new leaf and be more involved in the community. Focus on new members, help them integrate, take the time out to connect with new people. As harsh as it sounds, sometimes you have to let go of that "blissful" past. Show people you guys are willing to listen to the calls of change. And do that BUT don't forget who you are: The PokéCommunity Forums. The people want PC to stay but they want the way stuff is done to change. Knowing that, cater to that.

          I want to give my opinion on Escape Rope. Escape Rope is justified. The HStaff used it to give people a home while PC went through hell and back. If they want to continue it's development, that is OKAY. But don't cater to that. I can't fathom why we won't treat it like a rival forum. I've staffed rival forums at once but in no way did I let my conflict of interest affect my work. This part is difficult though due to the relations between the two places and how stuff will play out. It may sound like I'm attacking the ER staff but I am not. Find a way to determine who is willing to actively staff PC. If they are from ER that is OKAY but it shouldn't be that the creation of a new community is affecting their tasks. I know it's easy to go back to XYZ member who's thick in the planning of ER and ask them to come back and staff here but it's not good for the community of PC who wants to turn a new leaf. Look for new people who genuinely love the place, relish the task of change and want to breathe life in here. You'll see a change in how regular members connect with them and there will be a renewed sense of optimism around. Effectively, the staff team will be given a blank slate to work with. They will have the chance to impress the members with their commitment and dedication and will prevent the old issues between staff and members to not dampen the community. Above all, PC needs this to revive itself. PC can't and should NOT come back to 1 week ago PC. The same issues would plague it again and again. PC needs to come back to a new PC, something geared towards the future and geared towards change for the better.
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          Old March 4th, 2018 (5:14 PM). Edited March 4th, 2018 by Nakuzami.
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          Nakuzami Nakuzami is online now
           
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          Okay, I don't want to rehash a million and one things that have already been said here, but I'll throw in my two cents:

          First, the situation of Steve stepping down---I think it's obviously a good thing, and should have happened sooner than later (though, on the internet, "soon" is so ridiculously quick that it can also be ludicrous to try to keep up with that), and, from what I've heard, Steve initially declined to step down, or at least people did not believe that he would. I believe that, while the "mass exodus" may have been entirely too hasty, it was likely a large contributing factor in convincing Steve to step down, which I find to be a good result from it.

          Linking that to Escape Rope itself, I really would not say that anyone that left PC was attempting to "snipe" members away from it or could even be considered traitors to it. I know many of the people working towards building ER, and others who simply planned to transition to it, and I highly doubt that any of them had any such intentions.

          I don't believe that anyone, on either side of this schism, had any bad intentions whatsoever. As far as the people who decided to tear up the forums before bowing out---many of them would behave in such a manner regardless, and honestly have no weight or bearing on either the future of PC or ER in terms of leadership or the like. That's not to say that these people necessarily had bad intentions either; some of the "spamming" came from places of good intention, just poorly handled. The only one of these things that I interacted with myself was the thread calling out user: Melody, which eventually led to her (albeit short-lived) ban, which I honestly think is very well deserved and is something I'd like to see made permanent (edit: I've just been made aware of the fact that the ban was reinstated. A+ news).

          This is a time of high emotions and wild theories, so I completely understand each side of it. I fully get why some people no longer feel comfortable on PC in its current state, even if I don't completely agree with them about it or why. I appreciate those that are remaining behind to try and pick up the pieces, and I applaud the people that are trying to accommodate both because, much like myself, the forum that they love and the people they care about are split, and they don't want to lose any of it, and unfortunately that currently means having to juggle the fractured pieces of this situation.

          I do think that people jumped ship, deleted their accounts and tried to relocate rather hastily, but I wholeheartedly accept and understand why they did. And, as the entire sections that I dedicate myself to moved out, I moved along with them, and have been working on temporary housing for them until either ER is up and running, PC is back to its old self, or both.

          And, in that regard, "why" is the question that needs to be asked in times like this, rather than throwing around accusations. As I said, I don't think anyone in this situation came at it with malicious intent or ulterior motives, but merely conflicts of interest and (justified) inability to accept some of the goings-on around here. Steve's removal is a great first step towards remedying some of that. I know that many others are still angry at/uncomfortable with/suspicious of Hiroshi Sotomura/Laslow/Jake and, while I personally have zero developed opinions of him either way and cannot speak to his personal character as many others can, I think that many people still won't be able to accept PC while he's still an administrator, and while I don't necessarily share their opinion, I do respect it.

          Personally I would love to see PC rebuilt entirely and for everyone to return, but I understand that, at least for now, that won't happen. I'm just as happy to see PC restore itself and for ER to become a new and thriving forum, and for each to, hopefully, coexist peacefully. I intend to stick with each, though for now I'm unsure how actively I'll post here on PC as the sections I cling to are entirely empty at the moment. I do wish the best to everyone on either side of this ordeal, no matter the final outcome.
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          Old March 4th, 2018 (6:49 PM).
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          Johnny Johnny is offline
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          Just a message for the staff or people who thinks they know more than they do: when you talk about the staff who left, don't assume that you know each individual reasoning people had for leaving, while the trigger might've been the same, every single one of us had a different line of thought.
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          Old March 4th, 2018 (7:42 PM). Edited March 4th, 2018 by Deokishisu.
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          Deokishisu Deokishisu is offline
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            Yeah, as an adult, I do not feel comfortable being a part of a forum that is (because let's face it, a demotion is not enough) or was run by a sex offender. I'd urge people to consider their own reputations, both in real life and online, because all it takes is someone to learn your PC name and you're suddenly connected to this scandal by people with no context about the community. Pokemon is seen as a children's franchise, which makes this entire thing seem worse from the outside.

            Furthermore, I have been sick of PC's crap for several years now. The ROMHacking section was my home, but the mods and admins have made ridiculous and stupid decisions involving the section for years. I stayed because there was no where else to go for a hacking community, and because the other mainstay/veteran ROM hackers were here.

            But the scene has changed. The hacks that matter and the other veterans all have each other on Discord. We're a part of the same communities and have actual control over the ROMHacking scene that we used to have to give up to stupid staff decisions on PC.

            We are setting up another forum for ROMHacking and I encourage anyone who enjoys the scene that is interested to DM me on Discord for the link. We don't need PC's bloat for the primary reason most of us come here. We don't need poor staff decisions by people who don't know the needs of our subset of the community. Come with us to a place for us.

            Thanks for the 12 years. I wish all of it was good.
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            Old March 4th, 2018 (8:05 PM).
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              It's not a secret that I've had issues with this site for many years. Even though it took a scandal like this for people to leave, I think it is time to move on.
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              Old March 4th, 2018 (8:36 PM).
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              EvilChameleon EvilChameleon is offline
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              I mean, I can understand if people have issues with the Escape Rope people, but at least they aren't doing shameless things like putting the link in their signatures with text like this...

              Quote:
              PokeCommunity is dead after the scandal. If you enjoy the ROMHacking scene, come with the rest of us to WEBSITE HERE. It is a forum by ROMHackers, for ROMHackers. None of the bloat of PC, and staff that knows what our subset of the community needs.
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              Old March 4th, 2018 (8:51 PM).
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              I'm not a big part of the forum, and not really involved much with anyone here. Just a former SMTer. But anyway, I just want to know that the $100 I donated wasn't used frivolously, and was used for what I thought, aka, upkeep the forum.

              I do feel lied to, because of the whole situation though, I think a lot of members do. It'll be hard to regain trust. I am rather thick skinned though, and forgiving, so a simple apology and recognition of what was done wrong, and the promise to not repeat it. I'll stay and help when I can.

              Sorry for my poor typing.
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