Battle Styles: Shift VS Set

So we all know how easy the official Pokémon games are. Like it or not, fellow Pokémaniac, our beloved series is targeting children; this has some adverse consequences for the older fanbase, if one cares for the opinions of cyphers who aren't worth anyone's time. The laughter and ridicule we collect from ignorant fools for adoring this series is pain which bonds us all as comrades! :pink_evil:

Because the main target audience of Pokémon is so young, the games are understandably made to be easy enough for said audience to get through. Because of this, many feel that the games are perhaps too easy; feeding kids just a little more challenge would ultimately be healthier for their growing minds. {:3} If you're raised on Easy Street, you might get trapped there, never compelled to move to Difficult Avenue, which is a scary thought. In other words, the games might be conducive to repressing a sense of emerging determination… But that's neither here nor there. :)

While the Pokémon games could arguably benefit from a more challenging adventure, a certain feature has existed in the Options menu of every Pokémon game since the first ones which I believe has largely avoided recognition within the screams about insultingly pathetic opposition. That is, the Set Battle Style.

Every Pokémon game defaults to the Shift Battle Style when you begin, and this has a significant impact on your experience. Not only are you permitted a priority switch after each kill, the game informs you, by name, which Pokémon your opponent will be sending in next.

How is that a fair fight?! Of course the games are easy, damn it!

Now, playing on Set removes all of that, for better or worse, depending on your opinion.

So, what do you think about this? Do you play on Set? Did you even know what switching the Battle Style did?

I've been playing on Set for years, and the difference it makes in the experience was not lost on me. Employing competitive strategies out of necessity in-game is just so fun! Team planning becomes more serious, and battles, especially with, say, the Elite Four, are much more demanding. Personally, I couldn't see myself ever going back - it's just not right that I, the player, should have such an absurd advantage.

If I wanted to play set, I run the post-game Battle Maisons, Chateaus, etc.

During normal playthroughs, I'm not necessarily there for the challenge because I know by default there really isn't any. The only challenge really is finding what you want when you want it. If you know the game mechanics (and not everyone does, actually, especially newcomers), everything's there for you to stomp. Even if you employ Set over Shift, all you need is a high enough level sweeper that has a moveset with great coverage and it doesn't really matter what the NPCs throw at you.

For instance, I can just have a Starmie with a +5-10 level differential, which basically means I'm going to outspeed everything that doesn't chuck a +1 priority move at me. I'll just have Surf, Psychic, Ice Beam and Flash Cannon/Thunderbolt, I cover 10/18 types with STAB from Surf and Psychic. Thunderbolt might be a better option as with Flash Cannon 3/4 moves are ineffective against Water and Sharpedo will be the bane. But I like my chances nonetheless. And if for some odd reason you can't find/develop a good moveset for your ace, you can just throw in the standard scouter with U-Turn/Volt Switch.

So yeah, TL;DR if you know what you're doing, even artificially increasing the challenge to set battle mode makes things trivial. During my initial playthrough, I'm there for the story and the environment, not for the challenge. I'll wait until the end-game for that. I'd much rather NPCs swap out their Pokemon more often. But if you think about it, even in the anime they state that gym challengers are allowed to sub in Pokemon freely while the gym leader cannot. It's like some unspoken courtesy for challengers. *shrug*

I don't think changing to Set is artificially raising the challenge, I think it should be the standard; Shift shouldn't even be an option in my opinion - it's beyond broken. The difference isn't trivial when you use Pokémon you actually want to use because you like them and it's fun to play with your favourites, rather than a team of overused, overexposed monsters.

I leave it on shift because that's the default. I typically don't use more than 1 Pokemon during a battle anyway, so the difference is negligible. The only thing I'll change in the options is the text speed and maybe the UI styling if there is an option.

Set all the way. Shift doesn't make sense and there's a reason why it's disabled in every piece of post-game content that's supposed to be difficult + disabled in tournaments and player-to-player battles.

I mean artificial as a self-imposed rule, much like monotyping, nuzlocke, etc. It's player created in order to make the game more difficult because we all know how easy it can be if you know how the game works. You can easily just say, no grinding ever through the game because you can easily just grind one Pokemon to +20-30 differential and stomp content that way. I like Kabutops. Not exactly the best Pokemon out there, but still can sweep through overgrinding. What then? Set/Shift doesn't matter as much there. How about potion spam? Is that fair? Set up a wall and spam revives on your entire team.

This applies to virtually any game. You can always tweak your own rules to play by in order to increase the challenge. That's why having more options in these cases are great in order to cater to a wider audience. Diehards can always ignore options should they choose to. But no one should be able to remove options for others. Unless we're talking legit competition, then of course we have rules and standards to abide by, and they already exist.

FYI I've played extended sessions exclusively with Set battle style before and I can tell you my experience didn't change much. I either stuck with one Pokemon through any encounter or I switched out anyway to counter. Usually that just meant I took an extra hit to start, but the outcome is the same. I one-shot my opponent and proceed to the next one. In essence, all the change did to me was that I may use a few more Super Potions in between trainer encounters.

Being an included option, it's a little less self-imposed than player-created challenges like mono-typing and nuzlockes. Think about how many people didn't even realise there was any other way to play until they fought another player or reached an in-game competitive battle facility. Granted, it's up to a player's preferences, and enjoying the added challenge, I admit I'm biased, but consider what your view would be like had the series gone with Set as the default style instead from the very beginning and required you to enter into the options to switch to Shift; like Set, I believe it would go generally unnoticed, and convincing players to change the way they play the games to make them even easier would be a difficult task.

I always leave it on Shift, because I usually like to type-counter the opponent if it tries to counter my Pokemon.

I always just leave it on shift lolz

I see no point in changing it from shift. It's what I've always used and I'm used to it.

Besides, any experienced Pokémon player will tell you that the only time set actually changes the difficulty of a battle is when you are facing another human. Switching it in the game won't make it any harder.

When I first started I always used Shift, until ever since I played one ROM hack I decided to use Set and keep on using Set because it's much better.

The only thing good about Shift compared with Set is due to the split of Experience (since sometimes you want to level up your underlevelled Pokemon and to do so you need some more experience for them), but due to Gen 6's EXP mechanic where there's no split of Experience and every Pokemon that participates in battle will get the same full Experience, it makes the only benefit of Shift to me irrelevant.

Lostelle said:

I see no point in changing it from shift. It's what I've always used and I'm used to it.

Besides, any experienced Pokémon player will tell you that the only time set actually changes the difficulty of a battle is when you are facing another human. Switching it in the game won't make it any harder.

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So, you've never even tried Set, yet you think you know for certain that it does not in fact impact the game's difficulty? Based on... What, exactly? This is merely conjecture, but I'm going to say you haven't participated in so many discussions with competitive battlers on the very specific topic of the Set battle style's impact on the in-game experience, during which said individuals all argue the difference is negligible, to put words in the mouth of any experienced Pokémon player.

I'm by no stretch of anyone's imagination the best player, nor am I the worst, but what I do bring to the table is experience. I've been playing Pokémon since 1998, and I've done more than half a decade's worth of my adventuring on Set, across every generation. I'll concede sweeping regular NPCs is still a farce, but every now and then, you'll encounter something that proves delightfully difficult. And you didn't know it was coming because you refused to let the game be the guy standing behind your opponent, telling you all the cards in his/her hand!

Removing unfair info prompts and priority switches from the game is a choice, and maybe that's a good thing, but I don't think it can be argued that doing so fails to increase the difficulty when it factually does. Especially the further back in time you go, with lacking TM accessibility and a bevy of atrocious Pokémon to choose from.

^ That and having to switch in and take the damage before you can actually attack can very well change the course of a battle.

I never grind or overlevel. My team always ends up underleveled, so if I have to switch in, I take a considerable amount of damage unless my Pokémon resists the opponent well. Then I have, either less time to actually act (can only attack once instead of twice before I have to heal up), or I simply can't take another hit which prevents me from attacking at all because I'll be stuck in a loop of, heal, get damaged, heal, get damaged, et . or I can attack and get KOed right afterwards, or even not be able to attack at all if my opponent is faster than me.

Of course it's going to be faceroll if you level grind your Pokémon to 20 levels above the opponent and EV train them the right way, or pick the most competitively-viable team composition with the right movesets intended for tournaments just for going through the game's story.

Ammako said:

That and having to switch in and take the damage before you can actually attack can very well change the course of a battle.

Of course it's going to be faceroll if you level grind your Pokémon to 20 levels above the opponent and EV train them the right way, or pick the most competitively-viable team composition with the right movesets intended for tournaments just for going through the game's story.

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Exactly!

I feel like if the game is created to be enjoyable (it is a game, after all!), shouldn't you also enjoy the Pokémon you're using? Save that serious **** for the competitive scene! That said, I don't ever recruit bad Pokémon, simply because I don't like using them (except for that hilarious Drain Punch Vileplume I'm using in Soul Silver at the moment, just for fun :) ), but I don't use Ubers, either; I gravitate to certain Pokés for their designs and interesting movepools, etc. I love a Pokémon with okay stats but kickass type coverage!

Coming back to that Drain Punch Vileplume, I think the suboptimal or unorthodox sets we're sometimes forced to use in-game can be really fun to use against the in-game enemies, especially on Set! Off the top of my head, Cynthia's Platinum team was one of the best examples of a challenging in-game experience, and it's really rewarding to take her down on equal footing. {:3}

Ammako said:

Then I have, either less time to actually act (can only attack once instead of twice before I have to heal up), or I simply can't take another hit which prevents me from attacking at all because I'll be stuck in a loop of, heal, get damaged, heal, get damaged, et . or I can attack and get KOed right afterwards, or even not be able to attack at all if my opponent is faster than me.

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I try to make sure the battles I fight are as fair as possible, so I restrict the usage of items to outside of battle only, unless the opponent has their one Full Restore, such as Elite Four members - then I allow myself one, also. In addition to Shift, I feel like my ability to carry an unlimited supply of healing items that would not be present in normal battles gives me an unfair advantage, and so I dislike using them as much as I narrow my eyes at Shift.



I didn't mean to become so argumentative, peeps. :3c I just couldn't accept anyone actually trying to tell me that switching what is essentially a help option off has no effect on the game.

I like Set; it makes the game a more rewarding experience for me. If you don't feel the same, that's totally cool! You're not me, after all. If you were, I would be compelled to destroy you so that I'd have no competition for being the best me... >_>

Personally I like Shift mode better because there might be chances I might switch Pokémon when I know which Pokémon my opponents will choose.

Battle Style: Set for the win! {XD} I remember when I was like "Ooh, what does this option do?" back as a wee Pokemon Trainer in Generation 3, and I actually found out what Set does.

Granted, switching the "Battle Style" probably won't matter much if the player's Pokemon are over-leveled when contrasted with the levels of foe Pokemon Trainers, but the option of "Shift Battle Style" makes a world of difference if the player's Pokemon levels are on par or lower than the foe Pokemon levels - free switching, especially with forewarning of otherwise-unknown foe Pokemon, is an amazing benefit (especially in Generation 3 where most Pokemon are apt to get two-hit-knocked-out (2HKO'd -_-); despite not permitting the Shift Battle Style, the Hoenn Battle Frontier especially highlights how useful such a benefit could be, what with so many foes being prepared to institute "free Sheer Colds/Double Team on the player's switch-in" that are raring to go, and other things to that effect.

However, the Shift Battle Style does have its non-competitive uses - the primary point being saving time. If you're engaging in battles in which you already know what the foe Pokemon are (such as during repeat Elite Four run-throughs) and you're attempting to train Pokemon, you don't want to waste time switching just to get a more viable Pokemon out on the field - if you can better prepare for the one-shot in advance, being afforded a free switch is ideal for saving time. I can't recall if the Trainer Tower of Pokemon FireRed/LeafGreen (and maybe offbeat single-battle scenarios of Trainer Hill in Pokemon Emerald) allows for the Shift Battle Style to take effect, but saving time is a boon there (particularly since that is the whole point for traversing the facilities' floors. {XD})

As a personal example, I have a Pokemon Emerald "temporary" file that I started for the sole purpose of catching Latios (after having already "beaten the game" once), trading it away to a secure game, then restarting the file for my intended permanent play-through in which case I intend to catch Latias (although, admittedly, I still haven't been able to restart after all these years because reasons - mainly, lack of a second Game Boy Advance being available :({XD}). The Shift Battle Style helped me immensely in getting past things faster, since the main goal wasn't "challenge" but for "catching the end-game Latios".

Additionally, for Pokemon-Training purposes (my mindset is mostly in Generation 3, where leveling up to Level 100 is rather tedious and the act of replacing fainted Pokemon isn't postponed until the end of a turn {XD}), the "Shift Battle Style" aids in lower-leveled Pokemon (usually holding Experience Share or Macho Brace) being able to safely get put inside and outside of battle in order to maximize Experience Point acquisition while minimizing the frequency of sustained Hit Point reductions (essentially, getting more Experience Points while avoiding damage as much as possible).

Ammako said:

^ That and having to switch in and take the damage before you can actually attack can very well change the course of a battle.

I never grind or overlevel. My team always ends up underleveled, so if I have to switch in, I take a considerable amount of damage unless my Pokémon resists the opponent well. Then I have, either less time to actually act (can only attack once instead of twice before I have to heal up), or I simply can't take another hit which prevents me from attacking at all because I'll be stuck in a loop of, heal, get damaged, heal, get damaged, et . or I can attack and get KOed right afterwards, or even not be able to attack at all if my opponent is faster than me.

Of course it's going to be faceroll if you level grind your Pokémon to 20 levels above the opponent and EV train them the right way, or pick the most competitively-viable team composition with the right movesets intended for tournaments just for going through the game's story.

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This, especially! For some reason, your second paragraph pretty much summed up my first attempt and re-trials of Dewford Gym for certain save files, at least where my team was under-leveled.. {XD}

VisualJae said:

But if you think about it, even in the anime they state that gym challengers are allowed to sub in Pokemon freely while the gym leader cannot. It's like some unspoken courtesy for challengers. *shrug*

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The anime's treatment is interesting, although I guess there's a minor advantage in that Pokemon-replacing-Pokemon-that-just-fainted don't really act as "scapegoats" for attacks like what can be done in Generation 3 (and prior?) games.

Raburesu said:

I try to make sure the battles I fight are as fair as possible, so I restrict the usage of items to outside of battle only, unless the opponent has their one Full Restore, such as Elite Four members - then I allow myself one, also. In addition to Shift, I feel like my ability to carry an unlimited supply of healing items that would not be present in normal battles gives me an unfair advantage, and so I dislike using them as much as I narrow my eyes at Shift.

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Although I haven't gone through a "don't use many/any Items during battle" play-through yet, I fully intend such play-throughs for all of my future Pokemon save files (at least my permanent files, not the ones dedicated to unusual objectives such as solely catching an "either/or" post-game Legendary Pokemon or obtaining a save file's Master Ball) - this mainly applies to my first battle attempts, not scenarios where I'm trying to do something like use the Elite Four to train lower-leveled Pokemon in the post-game. My (over-?)use of Items kind of made me feel that I didn't really "earn" past wins as best as I could have, so I plan to restrict myself to the same "Item stock" (if possible) that Gym Leaders and similar Pokemon Trainers have, in addition to using the Set Battle Style to place myself on equal footing with foes. No reason that I should gain the "foresight" of a foe's next Pokemon, and the victory will be much sweeter when I win without previewing upcoming Pokemon. ^^

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In essence, while I feel that there is more of a fair competitive challenge (at least whatever challenge exists) with the Set Battle Style, the Shift Battle Style has its occasional uses, so I am fine with both settings being retained for implementation in future Pokemon games.

For me, I´ve never used The Battle Style: SET, maybe I didn´t know that Style or I was too lazy to figure it ou, so therefore I use SHIFT all the time, much easier, SET is for those who know what Pokemon that the Trainer has and it predict it.

I always use Set no matter what.

The next time I play a pokemon game I'm going to switch it to shift so I can have more of a challenge.