*A Freshly Scented Garden* Grass-type Club

[ddrox13]

1. Between Vileplume and Bellossom whose design do you prefer and why?

Vileplume because it's cute. There. Problem?

2. Which of the two Pokemon do you think is the better for battle and why?

The one that learns coverage moves (Vileplume)

3. In the Kanto Games Erika's main Pokemon was Vileplume, in the Johto games it was Bellossom with Vileplume nowhere to be found in her team. In the Unova PWT it was back to Vileplume with Bellossom also present. Of the two which should be Erika's signature Pokemon?

I like the PWT setup. 'Plume is just what I auto-associate with Erika, but Bello makes way more sense.

4. In the Johto Games Dark Type Elite Four Karen has a Vileplume in her team even though it is not a Dark Type? Why do you think this is and what may it say about Vileplume?

"Vileplume's toxic pollen triggers atrocious allergy attacks. That's why it is advisable never to approach any attractive flowers in a jungle, however pretty they may be." - Ruby, Omega Ruby Pokedex

Tbh she ran out of Dark types, and Vileplume's sprite is black in gen 2.

5. Bellossom has a very feminine appearance. Do you think it should be an All Female species? (I.e. Only Female Gloom can become Bellossom)

IS MR MIME ONLY MALE? IS EVERY OTHER POKEMON THAT LOOKS LIKE A FLOWER GENDER EXCLUSIVE? THESE ARE LIFE's IMPORTANT QUESTIONS. (No)

6. Which of the two do you prefer overall?

THE AWESOME ONE (Vilepluuuuuuuuume)

 

[Hikamaru]

1. Between Vileplume and Bellossom whose design do you prefer and why?
I actually love both, but if I had to choose one I'd go with Vileplume.

2. Which of the two Pokemon do you think is the better for battle and why?
Again, Vileplume. Because its Poison-type gives it some extra resistances, along with being a bit stronger than Bellossom.

3. In the Kanto Games Erika's main Pokemon was Vileplume, in the Johto games it was Bellossom with Vileplume nowhere to be found in her team. In the Unova PWT it was back to Vileplume with Bellossom also present. Of the two which should be Erika's signature Pokemon?
I think both suit her, but given the very feminine nature of her Gym, I feel like the more feminine-looking Bellossom would actually suit her better, with Vileplume as the number two.

4. In the Johto Games Dark Type Elite Four Karen has a Vileplume in her team even though it is not a Dark Type? Why do you think this is and what may it say about Vileplume?
I think, like what one post mentioned, Vileplume's sprite being very dark in those old games. I mean, its face does look very black.

5. Bellossom has a very feminine appearance. Do you think it should be an All Female species? (I.e. Only Female Gloom can become Bellossom)
I don't think Bellossom should be female only. Instead I'd rather make the entire Oddish line more common as female, as in say 75% chance to be female.

6. Which of the two do you prefer overall?
I don't particularly prefer one over the other. They are both equally good Pokemon.

 

[Rain T.]

1. Between Vileplume and Bellossom whose design do you prefer and why?
That's tough. Vileplume, I feel, fits with the line much better, but Bellossom is just so darn cute! I guess I don't really prefer either one; I like them both!
2. Which of the two Pokemon do you think is the better for battle and why?
Stat-wise, the two are very similar, but Bellossom has a little more for Defense/Sp. Defense, while Vileplume has a little more for Attack/Sp. Attack. They have the same normal Ability (Chlorophyll) but Vileplume's Hidden Ability is Effect Spore, which is actually quite nice to wreaking status-havoc on opponents with physical attacks, and Bellossom has Healer, which does the opposite and heals allies of a status condition. Taking into account stats and abilities, as well as looking at move-sets, it looks like Vileplume is a bit more offensive-based, while Bellossom seems more the support type. So I believe that the better one for battle simply depends on the situation.
3. In the Kanto Games Erika's main Pokemon was Vileplume, in the Johto games it was Bellossom with Vileplume nowhere to be found in her team. In the Unova PWT it was back to Vileplume with Bellossom also present. Of the two which should be Erika's signature Pokemon?
Vileplume was the original, so I feel it's better suited to being her signature Pokemon.
4. In the Johto Games Dark Type Elite Four Karen has a Vileplume in her team even though it is not a Dark Type? Why do you think this is and what may it say about Vileplume?
Well...it makes absolutely no sense to me. It's sprite is very dark in color in Gen. I and II, but beyond that? It can't learn any Dark type moves in Gen II, and the only one it can learn in Gen. IV (through TM) is Fling. Perhaps it's because of Vileplume's status moves? It does have access to a wide variety of them, though the only one it's equipped with in both Gens is Stun Spore. I suppose Vileplume does seem like a very dark Grass type though...
5. Bellossom has a very feminine appearance. Do you think it should be an All Female species? (I.e. Only Female Gloom can become Bellossom)
I do indeed think it should be an all female species. It's very odd (at least to me) to see this cute little thing with a skirt made of leaves/flower petals/whatever they are and with little flowers on the sides of its head dancing around, then realize 'Oh wait, that's a male.'
6. Which of the two do you prefer overall?
I've battled with Bellossom, but not Vileplume. However, I didn't really enjoy my experiences with the former, so I guess that means I prefer Vileplume by default?

 

[Lrachelr5]

1. Between Vileplume and Bellossom whose design do you prefer and why?
I think Bellossom because of it's more feminine apperance
2. Which of the two Pokemon do you think is the better for battle and why?
I honestly haven't used these pokemon before but I would think Vileplume because of the poison dual typing to give it some other resistances and a way to effectively hit fairies.
3. In the Kanto Games Erika's main Pokemon was Vileplume, in the Johto games it was Bellossom with Vileplume nowhere to be found in her team. In the Unova PWT it was back to Vileplume with Bellossom also present. Of the two which should be Erika's signature Pokemon?
I would have to say Bellossom because it seems more suited to her and the gym seeing as it looks more feminine
4. In the Johto Games Dark Type Elite Four Karen has a Vileplume in her team even though it is not a Dark Type? Why do you think this is and what may it say about Vileplume?
I'm not sure really, mainly because I have a limited understanding of the early gens. However I can understand how dark and poison types might be linked even though Vilplume is still part grass type.
5. Bellossom has a very feminine appearance. Do you think it should be an All Female species? (I.e. Only Female Gloom can become Bellossom)
I don;t think that there is anything wrong with Bellossom being male and female, if anything I think that it can relate to the idea that not all men are the typical heterosexual guy and that some are more feminine
6. Which of the two do you prefer overall?
Well I can only talk based on apperance, because as stated earlier, I've never used either of these pokemon before, but I think I would have to go with Bellosome just because of how cute and elegant it looks.

 

[Killua]

Well we are all changing names (at least me) i will post my new name to the owner to know.

 

[LilyGardy]

Spoiler:

New Main Topic

The next topic concerns the two final evolution branches of the Oddish Line. Depending on the Stone used Gloom will evolve into Vileplume or Bellossom.

1. Between Vileplume and Bellossom whose design do you prefer and why?

2. Which of the two Pokemon do you think is the better for battle and why?

3. In the Kanto Games Erika's main Pokemon was Vileplume, in the Johto games it was Bellossom with Vileplume nowhere to be found in her team. In the Unova PWT it was back to Vileplume with Bellossom also present. Of the two which should be Erika's signature Pokemon?

4. In the Johto Games Dark Type Elite Four Karen has a Vileplume in her team even though it is not a Dark Type? Why do you think this is and what may it say about Vileplume?

5. Bellossom has a very feminine appearance. Do you think it should be an All Female species? (I.e. Only Female Gloom can become Bellossom)

6. Which of the two do you prefer overall?

All answers will receive a mystery prize for the Scenario Campaign.

1. I prefer Vileplume's design. It is more of a logical follow on from its pre-evolution Gloom. Vileplume is basically a fully bloomed Gloom as its eyes are now open and its head flower has now bloomed.

Bellossom on the other hand whilst having an attractive design is a different colour to its pre-evolution. It also for some reason changes colour from Blue to green or in its Shinys case Green to violet.

2. Vileplume's dual Grass/Poison typing gives it STAB Poison Moves such as Sludge Bomb and 100% accuracy on Toxic. It has higher special attack than Bellossom which means it hits harder in battle. It has the hidden Ability Effect Spore which may hit a Random Status Effect on Physical Attackers.

Bellossom is better defensively than her Leaf Stone counterpart and gets the Hidden ability Healer which would be good for Multi Pokémon Battles.

Overall - Vileplume.

3. I always think of Vileplume when it comes to Erika's main Pokemon but given how Oddish is a common Pokemon in Kanto Bellossom is a solid choice for Erika's second in command.

4. Karen's well known quote references how 'truly skilled Pokemon should try to win with their favourites'. Vileplume's presence in her team may infer that the Flower Pokemon is one of her favourite Pokemon.

In game terms the presence of Vileplume (And Ghost/Poison type Gengar) may be so she cannot be swept by Fighting Type Moves which Dark is weak to.

5. Yes. With the flowers on the sides of its head and clear Grass skirt it is difficult to see a Bellossom as Male. All of my Bellossom's as male.

6. For the reasons given above and the fact that Vileplume was the Ace of my team in 2 Monotypes I choose Vileplume

There were some really good answers for this topic and here is the prize:

Spoiler:

Congratulations. All who answered this topic have won the Rainbow Badge for the Scenario Campaign.

New Topic

There are a few Bug/Grass Types in Pokémon? What do you think of this type combination in battle and the Pokemon which have the typing?

 

[Killua]

Hmm none of them are really strong and every desingn except for leavanny one is quite ugly and is more bug looking than grass looking not that this is a problem but it feels like a pidgey situation with grass typing not shown like i hardly would guess that paras is part grass.

 

[Hikamaru]

There are a few Bug/Grass Types in Pokémon? What do you think of this type combination in battle and the Pokemon which have the typing?

I hate to say it, but it's quite a terrible type combination both offensively and defensively. The combination has nasty weaknesses to Fire and Flying, and a couple of other weaknesses alongside it. On the offensive spectrum, Bug and Grass are tied for the worst type coverage, both being resisted by a total of 7 types each.

In terms of the Pokemon, both Parasect and Wormadam (Plant) aren't that great, but Leavanny actually has the stats to be a good battler, and learning some slashing-based moves like Aerial Ace and Shadow Claw, along with Swords Dance and two good STABs in X-Scissor and Leaf Blade help it at least stand out from the others.

 

[Rain T.]

There are a few Bug/Grass Types in Pokémon? What do you think of this type combination in battle and the Pokemon which have the typing?

I'm not a fan of the Bug/Grass types at all. Their type combinations are terrible in battle, taking 4x from Fire and Flying and 2x from Rock, Poison, Bug, and Ice. The only one I've ever tried battling with (Parasect) absolutely sucked, and I wasn't (still aren't) keen on trying any other Bug/Grass types again.

 

[Sun]

I'm not a fan of the Bug/Grass types at all. Their type combinations are terrible in battle, taking 4x from Fire and Flying and 2x from Rock, Poison, Bug, and Ice. The only one I've ever tried battling with (Parasect) absolutely sucked, and I wasn't (still aren't) keen on trying any other Bug/Grass types again.

Bug/Grass isn't a great type to begin with, I say Parasect's stat have worsened the image of Bug/Grass as well.

On the competitive aspect, Fire-moves which are popular in the metagame, are definitely murdering any Bug/Grass for good. Not to mention, Stealth Rock, a common entry hazard harms a Bug/Grass Pokemon too.

Perhaps if there's a Grass/Bug Pokemon that hits hard like a Slaking and has the Speed of a Speed form Deoxys, it might change how people perceive this unpopular typing.

 

[ddrox13]

Ok, There are 3 Bug/Grass evolution lines.

Wormadam-G: Just lacks in every department. Weak stats, little coverage outside of Psychic type attacks. All Burmy should evolve into Wormadam-T if possible.

Paras/Parasect: Incredibly useful in-game for their low-level access to the mighty Spore and plenty of TMs (Aerial Ace OP), but trash otherwise. And their Gen 6 model is ugly.

Sewaddle Line: Awesome design make them three of the few Bug Pokemon I tolerate. Lacking a bit in the moves department tho. Sewaddle is cute.

Overall, a secondary Bug type is one of two types that makes Grass's already horrible weaknesses worse (Ice is the other). Not a fan of the typing as a concept, but the Levanny line is pretty cool.

Perhaps if there's a Grass/Bug Pokemon that hits hard like a Slaking and has the Speed of a Speed form Deoxys, it might change how people perceive this unpopular typing.

That Pokemon would be broken with any type. Although I could see the type working with decent coverage moves and something like a 130(Vaporeon)/150(Aegislash-B)/30(Sunkern)/74(Talonflame)/30(Sunkern)/122(Greninja) (536 total, 1 more than Crobat) stat line. Parentheticals are comparable Pokemon in each stat. The Health and Attack would allow it to use Wood Hammer effectively, while the defenses render it's health useless vs actual attacks to balance. Even better, lets give the thing Reckless. 122 Speed allows a neutral natured one to outspeed M-Pidgeot and Tornadus-T as well as any neutral base 120s and +Spd base 100s.

 

[Hikamaru]

Bug/Grass isn't a great type to begin with, I say Parasect's stat have worsened the image of Bug/Grass as well.

On the competitive aspect, Fire-moves which are popular in the metagame, are definitely murdering any Bug/Grass for good. Not to mention, Stealth Rock, a common entry hazard harms a Bug/Grass Pokemon too.

Perhaps if there's a Grass/Bug Pokemon that hits hard like a Slaking and has the Speed of a Speed form Deoxys, it might change how people perceive this unpopular typing.

Absolutely true. The only real significant thing this combination has going for it is an immunity to powder and spore moves, but it's pretty much for all Grass-types in general so it's nothing unique.

While the combination may suck competitively, it is still decent on a casual playthrough, especially Leavanny for its attacking power and Parasect's use of many status moves.

 

[Sun]

Ok, There are 3 Bug/Grass evolution lines.

Wormadam-G: Just lacks in every department. Weak stats, little coverage outside of Psychic type attacks. All Burmy should evolve into Wormadam-T if possible.

Paras/Parasect: Incredibly useful in-game for their low-level access to the mighty Spore and plenty of TMs (Aerial Ace OP), but trash otherwise. And their Gen 6 model is ugly.

Sewaddle Line: Awesome design make them three of the few Bug Pokemon I tolerate. Lacking a bit in the moves department tho. Sewaddle is cute.

Overall, a secondary Bug type is one of two types that makes Grass's already horrible weaknesses worse (Ice is the other). Not a fan of the typing as a concept, but the Levanny line is pretty cool.



That Pokemon would be broken with any type. Although I could see the type working with decent coverage moves and something like a 130(Vaporeon)/150(Aegislash-B)/30(Sunkern)/74(Talonflame)/30(Sunkern)/122(Greninja) (536 total, 1 more than Crobat) stat line. Parentheticals are comparable Pokemon in each stat. The Health and Attack would allow it to use Wood Hammer effectively, while the defenses render it's health useless vs actual attacks to balance. Even better, lets give the thing Reckless. 122 Speed allows a neutral natured one to outspeed M-Pidgeot and Tornadus-T as well as any neutral base 120s and +Spd base 100s.

Broken or not, even a 999 Speed wouldn't save that poor Grass/Bug Pokemon. Why? Say hello to Talonflame, who's famous with its Gale Wings Brave Bird combination.

Absolutely true. The only real significant thing this combination has going for it is an immunity to powder and spore moves, but it's pretty much for all Grass-types in general so it's nothing unique.

While the combination may suck competitively, it is still decent on a casual playthrough, especially Leavanny for its attacking power and Parasect's use of many status moves.

Cacturne already dragged my whole team during my mono-Grass playthrough. I'm not sure about Parasect though, it's possibly worse...

 

[Hikamaru]

Cacturne may have more weaknesses, but a 4x Bug weakness isn't as common compared to a 4x Fire or Flying weakness. Having access to Chesnaught's once-unique move Spiky Shield gave it some new tools to use in battle, making it a not-too-bad Pokemon in casual play. Sure, those seven weaknesses may wear it down competitively but it still has its uses.

 

[ddrox13]

Broken or not, even a 999 Speed wouldn't save that poor Grass/Bug Pokemon. Why? Say hello to Talonflame, who's famous with its Gale Wings Brave Bird combination.

Yes, you would need to run a Talonflame check or 5. And a Heatran check. And a Ferrothorn check. But doesn't every team need those?

AND PARASECT IS AWESOME IN GAME! I kid you not, mine defeated Blue's Charizard in Sylph Co. with a lucky Quick Claw trigger (FR Monograss). Spore is a broken move.

 

[Sun]

Cacturne may have more weaknesses, but a 4x Bug weakness isn't as common compared to a 4x Fire or Flying weakness. Having access to Chesnaught's once-unique move Spiky Shield gave it some new tools to use in battle, making it a not-too-bad Pokemon in casual play. Sure, those seven weaknesses may wear it down competitively but it still has its uses.

7 weaknesses is one thing. Look at the Abomasnow line, despite its amount of weakness, at least it's able to withstand strong moves like Outrage, Hyper Voice if trained correctly.

Parasect and Cacturne are simply terrible, they aren't only lacking in Speed, but they are also terrible on their defense stats. Leavanny on the other hand, while it has the typing of Parasect, it has a decent Attack stat and an acceptable Speed (for in-game standards). So Leavanny has a use definitely. (:

Parasect and Cacturne, hmm I can still make them as Contest Stars, I suppose. They are particularly good in RSE contests and DPt ones. But Parasect might be slightly difficult to use in ORAS' Contest Spectacular, which is sadder than sad.

 

[Hikamaru]

Parasect and Cacturne, hmm I can still make them as Contest Stars, I suppose. They are particularly good in RSE contests and DPt ones. But Parasect might be slightly difficult to use in ORAS' Contest Spectacular, which is sadder than sad.

Cacturne does at least hit harder than Parasect, along with getting Sucker Punch. But looking at Parasect and Cacturne's movepools, both's main specialty is Clever and Cute, and also Cool to a lesser extent.

 

[Sun]

Cacturne does at least hit harder than Parasect, along with getting Sucker Punch. But looking at Parasect and Cacturne's movepools, both's main specialty is Clever and Cute, and also Cool to a lesser extent.

I didn't expect you to be a Contest expert! :o

Let's see Cacturne might be to pull off the following Contest moves:
Sucker Punch, Needle Arm, Destiny Bond, Payback

 

[LilyGardy]

Thoughts on the Bug/Grass Typing

General - The 4x weakness isn't the big worry for me. It's the 4x weakness to Flying type moves. Flying type moves I have found to pop up a lot during my Grass Monotypes and give me more problems than Fire.

Whilst Bug Type Moves are useful to give coverage vs Psychic, many Grass Types such as Leafeon and Jumpluff can learn Bug Type attacking moves like X-Scissor and U-turn.

Parasect - Whilst it learning Spore is welcome, I have never been a fan of this Pokémon. It's not just the lack of help it has given me in battle but the lore behind it. Evolving a Paras into a Parasect practically turns the little Paras into a Zombie to the Giant Mushroom on his back...

Wormadam Grass Cloak - I am yet to use this guy extensively but on what little I did use of it I found it underwhelming. Not a huge fan of its design either. As Ddrox says its Bug/Steel side evolution is much better.

Leavanny line - I like this Pokémon and it received some spotlight being Burgh's Ace. When I have used it it has served me well and has been a solid battler for me. For me Leavanny is the best Bug/Grass Type.

I didn't expect you to be a Contest expert! :o

Let's see Cacturne might be to pull off the following Contest moves:
Sucker Punch, Needle Arm, Destiny Bond, Payback

Let's see my Shiny Contest Cacturne (Cactanium) has the following moves: Sucker Punch, Retaliate, Destiny Bond, Feint Attack. He has won all Contests except the Beauty Contest so far. :)

I really want to like Cacturne but its slow speed really hurts it. I used him specially to help me beat Sabrina in the Unova PWT which is a somewhat niche way to use him.

Cacturne has a cool design but low defenses and especially his slow speed really holds him back and it is very strange he can't learn Earthquake.

 

[Sun]

-snip-

Yes, flying moves are common in any core series, but the said type isn't that popular in metagame.

Breloom can do better than Parasect, when it comes to the Spore/False Swipe hunting combo, while Amoonguss is the best user of Spore so far. (:

I wouldn't mind the poor Speed if it has respectable defensive stats! Cacturne is probably suited for the Trick Room team which I have no interest of. :/ They could have given the poor thing Sand Rush as its Hidden Ability or second standard Ability.