I was gonna ignore Naku's posts after he outed himself as scum, but Naku is actually right believe it or not.
In fact, I just want to say that I'm wondering if this idea for Naku's lynch is being pushed somewhat by scum
specifically to keep town from getting information from the lynch.
I understand where you're coming from Bard, but completely disagree (and even find some of these notions silly)
As I've already stated multiple times, let's give our detective a chance to find some info. We have no fricking leads right now. None. Zip, zilch, nada.
I don't see how looking elsewhere in terms of a lynch would deprive investigative roles of any information? Disagree on the "we have nothing" bit. You've read the thread, yes? Even if you can't find anything specific that immediately stands out, their posts at least give off vibes or gut feelings right? (referring to D1 here)
Delaying the game one night phase and pocketing the gains we got is the smartest move imo. I mean, think about it. We're sitting pretty with one maf dead to not a single inno, just a third party loveboat casualty. Why risk it all when we have the luxury to wait until we get more information,
Information isn't just going to fall into the town's lap. Why would you want to wait when you could push things and look into things
now that could (most likely) be helpful later?
particularly since the maf could fairly inconspicuously push the vote in one direction or another? Why risk it when we have a rock bottom chance of actually hitting another target?
That first bit is such a weak reason, because that can happen at literally any point in the game.
Of course scum will be trying to manipulate town. It's not like it's more likely to happen on D1 than any other day phase. And for that second bit, well, how would we know if we don't poke around?
I'll admit getting another mafia member killed would be awesome, but let's be real, the odds of that are slimmer than the 20% the player ratios claims.
Can't tell if this is stemming from the silly notion of fearing a mislynch on a townie that seems to be common in games lately. Yes the odds of a successful lynch on scum on D1 are low. But even if there's a mislynch you still get plenty if information from it. I even have an example from another game to go along with this, but I'll wait for that game to finish first.
The mafia's invariably going to string us along a random lynch.
See what I said above in response to maf pushing toward a mislynch. And if this were to happen then you can look back at the lynch for information anyway?
And would we actually learn anything?
Yes, we would.
Could we successfully discern the difference between inno ignorance and mafia malice when there's so little to go on, even with the context of later actions?
Yes, we could.
I agree with Bard completely. I really don't understand what's so dumb about it.
Unless somebody can come up with reasonable, incriminating evidence for a different lynch, why should we run around making uninformed random votes that will more than likely just kill an innocent player? You all plead that it's about "collecting data," but random lynches are infamous for subtle Mafia sway and misinformation (not to mention random, unexplainable bandwagons; I'll cite the time I was The Beast in Once Upon A Time - "oh, I just needed a vote in, I didn't want it to turn into a bandwagon!") I've seen Mafia vote for other Mafia in Day 1 situations just in case a teammate gets damning evidence against them they can say "lol why would I have voted for them so early if I was maf too." Hell, what if we random lynch the cop? How's that for losing information? Point is, like I said before, losing one innocent by tomorrow is better than losing two (potentially important) players.
Ok, don't have a problem with this part of the post (other than disagreeing with it, but I don't know if there's much more to say other than what I said to Bard above since your concerns are pretty similar anyway). I don't understand the cop example though, I mean if a bandwagon starts forming and that person claims cop we can just lynch someone else...? I also want to point out that the cop results are
not fully reliable in this game due to the chance of the cop being insane. (And even without one cop, there's still a billion investigative roles in this game) And also in this game, scum are gonna be hard pressed for finding something to claim anyway without getting a CC from someone since everyone has a role. I really hate when people bring up the "oh no but what if we lose the cop/doc/X/[insert other PR]" scenario because PRs are there to help town, but town doesn't
absolutely need PRs to win the game. Also losing innocents is part of the game.
Just like Bard though, I can at least see where you're coming from here too, and just want to say that I used to think in a similar way when I started playing too. But over time and as I've gained experience I've realized that this sort of thinking is more of a hindrance than anything.
But, no, don't let me stop you from condemning the crowd and calling everyone stupid whilst putting nothing forward yourself because you've got the better idea about how to play the game. It's not like the Mafia have anything to gain from getting another innocent lynched during that day phase or anything.
Don't like this part at all though. I don't think I like how you're presenting CapsFan here. I don't think CapsFan is giving off the "holier than thou" attitude that you think he is, he just disagrees with what's happening right now and I can see where he's coming from too. So I find this bit slightly scummy.
I don't want you to think I'm forcing you into my own line of thinking though, because that's not what I'm trying to do. I'm just giving my own view and I'm hoping you can at least see where I'm coming from, even if you don't agree with me.
Question, Kiyo: Does this give you give you a read on Bard (even if it's just an ever-so-slight read)?
Also @CapsFan, are you voting Bard because he was the one who initially proposed the plan? I'm just wondering because I think I'm actually town reading Bard, he's at least taking a firm stance on his decision, which just feels more town to me. (Could be thinking about this the wrong way though)
