Do you believe in Jesus/God?

[s0nido]

The Christian's theory on resurrection was basically the same thing as ours only Jesus died. Fine. No one has to believe me anyway. This thread will eventually degenerate into a war, and I don't intend to be in any part of it.

Besides, religion isn't all focused on God. The Prophet Muhammad said that he was brought down to perfect the best of manners. Perform good deeds and you'll go to Heaven, that's what I was taught. I wasn't dumped with everything to know about the authenticity of Islam and God. I explored them myself. And I found the evidence quite amazing.

Religion has had the past 1000 odd years to prove itself; yet people are still questioning religion and there is still no solid proof. Science has come along and for the past 50 years has come up with plenty of evidence to support its claims; I'm sure in another 50 years we will know more about the big bang and the claims of religion will be a thing of the past.

Did you people even bother to click on the link to look at my article? If you didn't, I'll show it to you now. And I think religion has already proven itself. Atheists say they don't believe in God so they can be free of guilt for whatever they do. If you think a God is watching you, you'll be less likely to commit a crime.

Religion has proven itself already. Do you honestly believe that everything around you was not created by something? Can't there be some higher being responsible for the creation of the universe? Why is it so impossible to believe that? That causation argument, when there is the Big Bang at the end of the chain everyone agrees, but when God is at the end of the chain everyone is suddenly skeptical. Why isn't it possible for a God to exist? Is he 'old news'? Just because there are all these new theories coming in, it doesn't mean we can throw God out of the window.

You people have thought endlessly to find evidence to back up your claims that God never existed, but you have never bothered to look at the evidence that he does exist.

Now here's the link, and I want everyone to click it and read what it says. Don't read the first word and say 'Oh my eyes!' Just read it. Feel free to post your own links, then we can come back and start arguing again, but with knowledge.

 

[Kazukii]

I'm actually quite suprised at how theoretical some of these replies have been ^_^

 

[Merzbau]

Universe <-----is caused by----the big bang <----is caused by---- God <----is caused by--- ?

What is the question mark? you can't say that the Big Bang needs a cause and then say that God doesn't need a cause - that's contradiction. The only other plausible answer is that we have an infinite chain of Gods, all creating each other. But that's just...silly...isn't it?

Sure seems silly. I sure wouldn't believe in that for a minute.

Or maybe it's just tortoises all the way down.

 

[Zennerick]

No offence to anybody religious, but it is physically impossible for God to exist. The world and the Universe were created by the Big Bang and life came to Earth on meteorites and comets; scientific evidence confirms this. I also don't like the way the Bible tells lies; the Adam and Eve story cannot possibly be true; they had two sons and one of them killed the other as far as I know. How did the human race expand? We evolved from primates; again, scientific evidence confirms this.

Besides Eve, the New Testimant didn't mention females.
_{Which doesn't make any sense at all.}

Wow. Care elaborating on that? Sounds really interesting...

I think he may be refering to the Large Hadron Collider. You know, that machine that was made to "recreate conditions that existed immediately after the Big Bang" and led people to think that a giant Black Hole would suck up the Earth.

 

[Netto Azure]

Wow this is something. This thread has lived longer than the California Proposition 8 (Ban on Gay Marriage) thread.

I'll say it again I believe that the bible and the church is speaking metaphorically on things and that it was limited to the thinking of the times. But it is still the truth. =P Somehow I believe both in Science and the Catholic Church. ^_^

 

[Rogue planet]

Religion has proven itself already. Do you honestly believe that everything around you was not created by something? Can't there be some higher being responsible for the creation of the universe? Why is it so impossible to believe that? That causation argument, when there is the Big Bang at the end of the chain everyone agrees, but when God is at the end of the chain everyone is suddenly skeptical. Why isn't it possible for a God to exist? Is he 'old news'? Just because there are all these new theories coming in, it doesn't mean we can throw God out of the window.

That's not evidence, it's a theory; you cannot deny that there is no solid proof or evidence to say that a god exists.

Now here's the link, and I want everyone to click it and read what it says. Don't read the first word and say 'Oh my eyes!' Just read it. Feel free to post your own links, then we can come back and start arguing again, but with knowledge.

I didn't see a link in that post?

 

[jasonresno]

That's not evidence, it's a theory; you cannot deny that there is no solid proof or evidence to say that a god exists.


I didn't see a link in that post?

Well every scientific "proof" that God doesn't exist is just an elaborate theory validated by like minded individuals. Somehow the word "science" get's slapped on and a proportion of the masses believe it as truth.

No, like I said before I don't think anyone will ever find the origin of our existence through science simply because someone will always come along with a better or more interesting theory and that theory will be clung to until it can pass off to the next one. Whether right or wrong in your/our eyes, I do believe that the only people who will ever be confident in what "started" everything are those in the religious category.

And a quick jab at another post. I can't remember the user but the content was "The Big Bang just naturally happened.".

How can that argument be made? By making that argument you are insisting that something has always existed forever. So, in order for the Big Bang to naturally happen...something had to have already existed to kick start what was going to kick start the rest of existence? How does that work?

 

[NoBel_ToKYo ™]

It's true that it seems to be one big new scientific theorem after another, but i do not like to treat science or religion as two creeds, where one dominates the other (jasonresno, you already know i'm agnostic XD) To me, science and religion are simply the two sides of the scale; The balance of thinking realistically, and living in a world where we look deeper into touch, taste, and why things are, while still maintaining some sort of faith, for before and after we die. Why should science and religion overrule one another? Just my point of view, which may seem garbled (i had a hard time trying to put it into words XD)

 

[jasonresno]

It's true that it seems to be one big new scientific theorem after another, but i do not like to treat science or religion as two creeds, where one dominates the other (jasonresno, you already know i'm agnostic XD) To me, science and religion are simply the two sides of the scale; The balance of thinking realistically, and living in a world where we look deeper into touch, taste, and why things are, while still maintaining some sort of faith, for before and after we die. Why should science and religion overrule one another? Just my point of view, which may seem garbled (i had a hard time trying to put it into words XD)

No, man, that's wonderful. I don't think science necessarily has to be on the other side of the ring in terms of religion.

 

[NoBel_ToKYo ™]

Lol ^__^

Maybe it's not so much about whether it's religion or science that is more likely. Maybe BOTH fill each others gaps, you know what i mean? I feel more at ease thinking of that.

 

[Kazukii]

I'm glad that In my R.S lessons at school, I'm not bullied/intimidated/forced into christianity. My class and my teacher respect my views that I share with a select few.

 

[s0nido]

Here's the link. Click it.

Now tell me God doesn't exist. By the way, the Qur'an was revealed over 14 centuries ago, while the facts in it were only discovered recently. And I think this thread is just going endlessly into discussion and argument...

 

[I Laugh at your Misfortune!]

y'know, I don't have time to point out everything that's wrong with that link. So I'll just do one quote:

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]While referring to the Sun and the Moon in the Qur'an, it is emphasized that each moves in a definite orbit.[/FONT]

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]"It is He Who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. They swim along, each in an orbit. "
(The Qur'an, 21:33)[/FONT]

Unfortunately, most people actually thought the sun moved in an orbit, they just thought it orbited the earth, not Vega. And the Koran does not actually appear to say what the sun is orbiting.

 

[s0nido]

y'know, I don't have time to point out everything that's wrong with that link. So I'll just do one quote:

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]While referring to the Sun and the Moon in the Qur'an, it is emphasized that each moves in a definite orbit.[/FONT]


[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]"It is He Who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. They swim along, each in an orbit. "
(The Qur'an, 21:33)[/FONT]

Unfortunately, most people actually thought the sun moved in an orbit, they just thought it orbited the earth, not Vega. And the Koran does not actually appear to say what the sun is orbiting.

It's a book to reveal laws to the Muslims, not a science book. It doesn't need to clarify everything, as it was designed for a different purpose. Can you point out a book released at the same time by a Non-Muslim which points out scientific laws?

Now, the point of religion is to obey a higher deity and do whatever it tells you. Allah, the deity of Islam, commands people to embrace good and reject evil. Is there anything wrong with that? Why be an atheist or reject God? Why can't you have belief in God and just do whatever is right? Are you lazy to pray five times a day? Are you too lazy to read the Qur'an once in a while? Please...

Now for some more quotes from this webpage:

[FONT=Garamond, Times, Serif]The Layers of the Atmosphere[/FONT]​

​

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]One fact about the universe revealed in the verses of the Qur'an is that the sky is made up of seven layers.[/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]"It is He Who created everything on the earth for you and then directed His attention up to heaven and arranged it into seven regular heavens. He has knowledge of all things."
(The Qur'an, 2:29)[/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]"Then He turned to heaven when it was smoke. In two days He determined them as seven heavens and revealed, in every heaven, its own mandate."
(The Qur'an, 41:12)[/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]The word "heavens", which appears in many verses in the Qur'an, is used to refer to the sky above the Earth, as well as the entire universe. Given this meaning of the word, it is seen that the Earth's sky, or the atmosphere, is made up of seven layers.[/FONT]

There are seven layers of the atmosphere, and this fact was proven just recently. But the Qur'an, which was revealed 14 centuries ago, had these facts inside it. These facts of science were to prove to the later generations of the existence of God, yet you people don't seem to see the evidence laying before you. You just ignore the evidence and say there is no evidence that God exists. Hello??? The evidence is right here!

Now, 'I laugh at your misfortune'. Did you fail to read the verse written after the verse you quoted about the orbits? It went:

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]"By the sky full of paths and orbits."
(The Qur'an, 51:7)[/FONT]

Everyone at the time said that the stars only orbited the Earth, not each other. The Qur'an, however, actually presents the fact that there are numerous orbits of stars and planets, and once again, these facts were proved nearly 14 centuries later.

And you say there's no God.

 

[Ivysaur]

Uh, if god's main word is "embracing good and rejecting evil", well, I guess we can do it to make all the people around us happy, not to make a god I'll never see while I'm alive happy. That's my thought.

And yeah, praying five times a day or reading a very long sacred book can get very boring if you don't fully believe in your god, with your heart. If you don't, being forced to can turn you to the completely other side.

 

[I Laugh at your Misfortune!]

So you defend these facts, saying that it isn't a science book, then point out that it supposedly makes scientific claims which have been recently proven? That's kinda...inconsistent. And to be honest, I'd rather you didn't make random insults calling me lazy. My atheism is due to me being rational and reasonable, not due to me not wanting to pray.

Now...

"The sky full of paths and orbits" does not mention what the stars and planets are orbiting, yet again. So that doesn't say that they were orbiting each other either. It just says they were orbiting.

"He determined them as seven heavens" I seem to have missed the word 'layers' in that quote...wait, it actually wasn't in the Qu'uran? But that essay claimed that the Koran siad that there were seven layers of the atmosphere, didn't it?

And no, I don't say there's no God. I say there's probably no God.

 

[s0nido]

The Qur'an isn't a book of science. It is there to prove the existence of God to non-believers and to strengthen the faith of those that do believe.

"He determined them as seven heavens" I seem to have missed the word 'layers' in that quote...wait, it actually wasn't in the Qu'ran? But that essay claimed that the Koran said that there were seven layers of the atmosphere, didn't it?

The Qur'an doesn't actually say 'layers'. It uses the word 'heavens' instead. So it still refers to the layers of the atmosphere as heavens.

Now, I explained before that acknowledging the existence of God prevents us from doing evil and promoting good. If there were no policemen in the world, I think that everyone would keep commiting crimes. There would be no one to arrest them and there would be a chaotic mess throughout the world. The same thing goes for encouraging good. People always expect rewards for things, whether it be praise or something material. If a pet was lost, the owner would put a reward up so people would rush to get the pet and claim the reward.

The same thing goes for belief in God. People believe in God because they want the eward and want to avoid punishment. I think it would be safer to believe in a God and see what will happen after death. It couldn't be coincidence that we are the only intelligent beings on Earth. We must have been put here for a reason, and religion gives us a reason to live.

 

[salmence33]

of coarse I believe in god. What else would create the universe.
If you d'on't beleive then read a bible 7 times and you will believe.
Let christ be with you.

 

[I Laugh at your Misfortune!]

But...the essay claims that the Koran says that the sky has seven layers. It say that there are seven heavens.

heaven =/= layer

Also, regarding your point about policemen - yes crime would increase, but I don't believe chaos would rule. In my opinion, people are essentialy good and generally do the right thing without needing to be bribed by the promise of eternal life.

Finally, I don't think its a good idea to say 'You might as well believe in God because that way you'll be safe when you die'. That makes your belief seem a little...cheap.

 

[1stGenNut]

Oh definitely, I believe in God, Jesus, reading the Bible really refreshes my inner being too.