Gender Identity

[colours]

While I don't entirely disagree with you, relying on Reddit for information on a sensitive subject seems like a bad idea. There could be things that are fabricated or heavily biased to one person's idea.

I'd say it depends on the subject. Simultaneously it could be wrong to slander reddit based on the assumption that it's reddit and because it's reddit there's no possible way it could be used as any sort of point.

My sentence in particular was referring more to r/transtimelines and how it shows actual legitimate transgender people going through HRT to look exactly like the gender they want to identify as.

gender they are while the former doesn't. Cis people don't have to legally change their gender or transition through surgeical means. Trans women and trans men are still women and men, they just have to do more to be recognized as who they are.

You're misunderstanding my point, here. Cis women and Trans women are both women. Cis men and Transgender men are both men. That was my point. I wasn't looking for a technical definition, as i am WELL enough aware of that.

 

[Neb]

@colours Sorry for adding a definition you already knew about at the end. I wasn't sure if you knew. I also wasn't trying to slander all of Reddit. Trans timelines is a great place to see the differences in trans people. I was more referring to places like r/traa that aren't as fact based and more focused on memes. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Lycanthropy]

I imagine because it would be a pain in the ass to constantly explain concepts as complicated as sex vs gender in full detail every time you wanted to reference them.

Yeah, people just want something "easy" to refer to. Actually I know that. I just wish people didn't do it though.

Putting different names on different identities only stresses some people are different than others. In my opinion, it's much easier to throw all these words out of the window and just respect everyone as they are. But hey, maybe that's just me.

 

[Palamon]

Sigh. You know, I get kind of annoyed when people don't try to educate themselves about gender identity. I really wish transphobia wasn't still a thing, but it is. Trans women are still women, and trans men are still men, regardless of whether they transition or not, they're still valid. Gender =/= sex. All gender identities are valid.

I'll use myself as an example. I identify as trans masculine. I want to be perceived as masculine. But I don't want to change my body using HRT or assignment surgery. Just really small changes to my body to make me appear more masculine/male (or gender neutral, if we wanna get technical). That doesn't make me less valid than other people who are trans and do want surgery/hrt.

I could really go on a tangent, but I'm a little tired. I might update this or delete my post, who knows.

This post isn't directly at anyone, by the way.

 

[Corrin]

I'm sorry if my post came across as intolerant. That was never my intention. While there are some people who have trolled on here, painting everyone under one brush is just as hateful. From personal experience, it's easier to get others to agree with you politically if you're as respectful as you want people to be with your ideas.

I'm not required to be nice when lgbt people are killed, disowned, beaten, fired, denied services and over all hated for our identities.

 

[gimmepie]

I'm not required to be nice when lgbt people are killed, disowned, beaten, fired, denied services and over all hated for our identities.

Actually, you are.
This is my reminder to everyone in this thread to remember to be respectful regardless of how your opinions differ.

 

[Corrin]

Actually, you are.
This is my reminder to everyone in this thread to remember to be respectful regardless of how your opinions differ.

But people shouldn't invalidate trans people and say our identities aren't really real? It's very hurtful.
Saying "a trans man isn't really a man" is horrible and shouldn't even be an "opinion"

 

[Neb]

@Raven Yeah you do. This is a section of the website where being respectful is required. "Be respectful: You are entitled to whatever beliefs you might held, but other people are also entitled to their own. You can challenge someone's opinions, but you do not have the right to launch personal attacks based on a disagreement. Yes, even in debate threads. Trolling is not tolerated." I might not be a mod, but it is required to follow this site's rules. How do you expect people to agree with you if you're going to be rude? (Sorry for the original version of this post. I got upset.)

 

[pastelspectre]

trans men are men, trans women are women regardless of whether they transition or not.

i am nonbinary so i fall under the umbrella of trans technically and i'm slowly kind of opening up my mind to that. it's taking some getting used to

but like can we all be respectful of other people's opinions? also, please don't be transphobic. especially not with what's happening lately.

 

[Neb]

@Hoshiko Thank you. We should be respectful for our opinions. Even if it's a sensitive subject.

 

[Corrin]

How do you expect people to agree with you if you're going to be rude?

Because an alarming majority of people either online or off are hateful of lgbt by default, and being nice to them will not change it. You should agree with me by default because I'm saying that trans people are their gender.

I don't know why it's so hard for people to understand that you should just treat people with decency regardless of their gender identity. Saying things like "oh you're not really a man if you're trans" is hurtful, why do people expect someone they're hurting to be placid about it?

 

[gimmepie]

I don't know why it's so hard for people to understand that you should just treat people with decency regardless of their gender identity. Saying things like "oh you're not really a man if you're trans" is hurtful, why do people expect someone they're hurting to be placid about it?

You can fight for your beliefs without resorting to personal attacks or being needlessly mean. It's not the same as being placid and it's going to help your case a lot more than ad hominem.

 

[Neb]

@Raven Thank you for clearing that up. Of course you can upset about it. I am too. It's horrible that there are people out there that will treat you poorly for being trans. It's inhumane and has no place in our modern world. I just don't think being nasty will fix anything. It's what people like that want.

 

[ruby]

PhoenixIgnition's 'opinions' are inherently disrespectful

 

[Corrin]

You can fight for your beliefs without resorting to personal attacks or being needlessly mean. It's not the same as being placid and it's going to help your case a lot more than ad hominem.

I don't see how telling someone they're being transphobic is mean?

 

[ruby]

this thread was never about debating the legitimacy of trans people and platforming this, especially in the current climate, is tantamount to it

 

[moon]

I think Dawn's post from earlier is underrated.

So many people nowadays demand to be called a certain gender. I have come to understand that it makes some feel better to have a label to define themselves by like that. I won't stop them.

But I wish that we lived in a world where somebody could call me a woman without attaching any expectations of what I'm supposed to look like or behave like to that. It's just my biology, but maybe I act super masculine and like girls? Doesn't make me a man. A man who wears make-up and dresses shouldn't be shunned or have to be called a woman in order to be validated as a person.

The more I mention this view of mine though, the more I find it seems like I care unusually little about gender compared to many others online. Some people born as male really do feel like they don't fit with their body, even if I can't fully seem to understand it, and while many don't choose to transition, they still obviously feel better being called woman instead of man (and vice versa). I haven't read enough peer-reviewed papers on the subject to give an educated guess on whether this is a truly biological phenomena that happens in mammals or apes or other animals, or if it is more likely a product of our confined society putting such unfair expectations and different social roles on our two sexes despite having such a modern society where it is mostly not needed anymore.

 

[Corrin]

BUT THEN AGAIN it's hard to tell what people are feeling online so if I did upset anyone I am genuinely sorry.
It's just that, as a nonbinary person, these issues hit home and I've been a victim of hate/threats/etc against me for my identity.

 

[Juno]

Another thing to keep in mind is trans acceptance is a relatively new concept for a lot of people. While this is not an excuse or good reason to be ignorant or hateful, it is a tough topic to understand, especially for people who do not experience gender dysphoria or non-binary identities.

Alot of "ignorance" does not come from a place of hate, but of genuine confusion - some things that might seem "obvious" to you is not going to be obvious to cis people or people who aren't going through the same stuff as you. I see a lot of people here whom I perceive as just trying to understand, or have an open dialogue, who are shut down as "ignorant" or "hateful" when they are simply asking questions because they don't understand, or they want to clarify some things.

This is a pretty new/foreign concept to many people, and instead of closing the dialogue as "ugh you're ignorant please educate yourself" you can use this opportunity to help people understand if you/they so desire, in a respectful manner, or just have a conversation. Asking questions and sharing what they think is not necessarily transphobic, especially if they are not being particularly rude or hateful.

 

[moon]

this thread was never about debating the legitimacy of trans people and platforming this, especially in the current climate, is tantamount to it

Oh, true... i feel like this was originally made in the Off-Topic forum o: In DD, it's commonplace to discuss any topic brought up, more. I think.