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Suggestion: Increase the avatar size for non-supporters

KorpiklaaniVodka

KID BUU PAWAA
  • 3,318
    Posts
    11
    Years
    I'm getting increasingly frustrated with the avatar size me and other fellow regular members have. Like fksdkhxd can't you just increase it to 150x150 or something?

    It's an absolute pain for some non-supporters to have it locked to 130x130. It's ridiculously small and I think 150x150 or at least 140x140 would suit them better. I know Silver users also have a 150x150 avatar size, but that can very well be increased to not remove the perk of having to pay.
     
    idk when i was a regular member which was only a couple of months back and got gifted supportership i never really noticed the difference you can usually see the image fine too.
    Plus the difference between sizes is more so an incentive to donate to the forums because only so many good things can come out of something free :)
     
    You know, reading what was mentioned just above, the good thing is that our default avatar size limit is bigger than what you'd expect at most forums where 100x100 looks pretty teeny if you ask me. There is a reason why the current size limits are in place, it's mainly to be an incentive to get you to donate for supporter.
     
    Is it? I honestly appreciate the smaller avatar sizes in other forums. Way less distracting.

    Don't really know why avatars should be big, anyway.

    One of the main reasons (for my case); is due to the fact you can fit more quality into the avatar space. Normally, the smaller the size either means you have to compress the actual image down or reduce it overall which drops the quality. Now, note. Pixel art is amazing regardless of the size, but that is just an exception to my belief on the manner. Everyone has their own prefs.
     
    If you want a bigger avatar, just donate $5.

    Incentives are put in for a reason, and avatar size fits in that category. If you adjust one size for the lowest tier, than it will affect the tiers of every subsequential tier in the hierarchy. Personally, I don't want to see 250x250 avatar sizes for Platinum tier as 200x200 is plenty big enough.

    As many people have pointed out, PC actually supports larger avatar sizes than other sites. I can already see how if we upgrade 130x130 to a larger size, users will eventually start complaining again that their avatar sizes are too small compared to supporter avatars and the subject will be brought back up in a sort of viscous cycle.

    And yes, I understand that there are some people who cannot use a credit card or get their parent's permission to use theirs to upgrade their avatar size. However, PC offers many opportunities through competitions, events, and so on for people to earn supporter prizes in order to gain the benefits other people have. It just takes an eye to find them.

    I'm not trying to be harsh in this post or anything, but I'm just speaking what I believe is the truth; avatar sizes should stay the same for the above reasons and if you really want a bigger sizes avatar, then donate to the site with $5+ or earn it through other means.
     
    Is it? I honestly appreciate the smaller avatar sizes in other forums. Way less distracting.

    Don't really know why avatars should be big, anyway.
    People like their avatars. They want 'em to be seen and they want to see 'em themselves.

    Larger pics generally allow for higher quality and more detail, which opens up what can be your avatar can be without looking condensed or super-trimmed. It can take out a lot of headaches.
     
    And let's be realistic here--I doubt anyone would complain about 140x140 being small because that's actually fairly big, so I don't think it'll be a problem about us coming back full circle to this. But that's just me.
    I don't know about that- it really seems about as likely that people would complain about 140 as they are about 130. Which is to say, there's not really much to indicate either way, but simply because this thread exists despite PC having larger-than-average avatars doesn't really give much confidence that 140'd be much different.

    And especially from a mere numbers standpoint, it's not exactly the biggest upgrade. Wouldn't be surprised at all if a thread like this popped up again after the fact.
     
    I disagree with this.

    There's a specific reason why I intentionally stated 140x140 should, at most be the biggest avatar size that regular users are allowed to have. If they want anything bigger than 140x140, at that point in time is when they would need to donate. It's honestly 10-15 extra pixels bigger anyway as you donate, so wouldn't this be more consistent? Supportership isn't entirely about avatar sizes, so I don't see how this would trigger some sort of negative domino effect on the supporters' avatar sizes. Everyone's pretty comfortable with the perks they have now anyway, and having a small bump for the regular users should not feel detrimental for anyone else considering the other freebies we get already.
    I disagree with your point that people are pretty comfortable with the perks they have now. Time and time again I've seen posts from users stating that they felt that their perks weren't all that they've been sought out to be. Many times there have been posts on a staff level asking "what kind of perks can we add for [VIP users] supporters?" and many times there have been little to none feasible results. Thus, while you personally may feel that it's not such a big deal, other users may feel that they feel they are being jipped because they've paid money for a certain perk - let's say that a user donated money specifically for a certain avatar size - and thus is upset that regular users are basically getting what they wanted without paying money. Of course, that's just speculation and each user has their motives for donating in the end.

    PokeCommunity works on a donation system; without donations, than PC becomes very difficult to stay afloat in terms of paying the bills to keep the site running. If we start to inch the line closer from regular user to Silver Tier in terms of avatar size, the site may lose a good deal of possible donators because the avatar size is basically the same. Again, this is based on the hypothesis that users are donating specifically for an avatar size boost and not the other perks; of course users donate for other perks as well, but we're just focusing on the users who donate just for an avatar size boost.

    I personally am not a fan of the "if you don't like it, suck it up and deal with it or cough up cash" approach. No, I'm not twisting your words or anything like that, but it's generally the same implications--what happens if there isn't an event going on that offers supportership as a prize? Even then, that just requires them to get first or second place usually--what if they don't win at all? Just saying "it takes an eye to find them" is basically leaving the regular users to their own devices in a way without giving them any leeway. I suppose you can say increasing the avatar size would at least give them a comfortable dimension size because I doubt many regular users would want anything bigger than 140x140. My primary concern is that while yeah, 130x130 might sound big to some of us (I mean, heck, my avatars are very rarely bigger than like 120x120), but there are others that prefer to use....spacier avatars within more flexible limits. The reasoning for such shouldn't be our concern and is pretty insignificant, but that's another reason why I specifically stated 140x140, mostly because that's the most flexible we can go without breaching into Silver Supportership territory.

    And let's be realistic here--I doubt anyone would complain about 140x140 being small because that's actually fairly big, so I don't think it'll be a problem about us coming back full circle to this. But that's just me.
    Unfortunately, that is part of the business approach that PokeCommunity must have in terms of keeping the site running/getting those donations to continuously flow* (this is my general opinion.) Yes, not everyone will win a competition and yes, there aren't competitions happening all the time. But again, unfortunately, and yes this may come across as blatantly harsh when it's not intended, it's impossible to make every single user on this site happy. Not everyone is going to win a competition; not every single person is going to have the means to donate to the site. Each person is going to want something, and sometimes we need to look at the bigger picture of things in order to keep - in lack of better words - order maintained. I'm still a strong believer that if this was to pass, then in the near to distant future users will complain that their avatar sizes are too small and this whole argument will occur again.

    My reasoning still stands above as to why I think the dimensions should stay the same as they are now.
     
    I disagree with your point that people are pretty comfortable with the perks they have now. Time and time again I've seen posts from users stating that they felt that their perks weren't all that they've been sought out to be. Many times there have been posts on a staff level asking "what kind of perks can we add for [VIP users] supporters?" and many times there have been little to none feasible results. Thus, while you personally may feel that it's not such a big deal, other users may feel that they feel they are being jipped because they've paid money for a certain perk - let's say that a user donated money specifically for a certain avatar size - and thus is upset that regular users are basically getting what they wanted without paying money. Of course, that's just speculation and each user has their motives for donating in the end.

    PokeCommunity works on a donation system; without donations, than PC becomes very difficult to stay afloat in terms of paying the bills to keep the site running. If we start to inch the line closer from regular user to Silver Tier in terms of avatar size, the site may lose a good deal of possible donators because the avatar size is basically the same. Again, this is based on the hypothesis that users are donating specifically for an avatar size boost and not the other perks; of course users donate for other perks as well, but we're just focusing on the users who donate just for an avatar size boost.

    As you said, there have been times where there was discussion about possible new supporter tiers getting added, but literally we could not get anything off the ground but looking in the big picture, we have quite enough perks right now anyway.

    Increasing the non-supporter avatar size limit to 140x140 would be, as you said, seeing a reduction in the amount of users donating. This is why I think the current sizes are as perfect as they are.
     
    How is 130x130 big? Most forums I know (such as PokeCheats or some other non-related to Pokemon forums) have avatar sizes as high as 180x180 or even 200x200. I don't see the argument "just donate 5$" as a valid argument either, as, you know, not all people here have bank accounts. I'm not 18 yet to have a bank/paypal account. That's how it works in Romania at least. Also, I've NEVER found a competition that gives supporter prizes since I signed up (that's two years and one month ago).

    If silver users are afterwards going to complain how they paid for their avatar size, just increase it to 165x165 or something, and thus we gain a win-win situation.
     
    Last edited:
    Well, you know, I don't find much of a difference from 150 to 130 px. In fact, a forum with enormous avatar dimensions looks too loaded, so I think this is a good size. Also, if you play a bit with some editing programs, like Photoshop, you can resize your pictures without too much loss of quality.
     
    How is 130x130 big? Most forums I know (such as PokeCheats or some other non-related to Pokemon forums) have avatar sizes as high as 180x180 or even 200x200. I don't see the argument "just donate 5$" as a valid argument either, as, you know, not all people here have bank accounts. I'm not 18 yet to have a bank/paypal account. That's how it works in Romania at least. Also, I've NEVER found a competition that gives supporter prizes since I signed up (that's two years and one month ago).

    If silver users are afterwards going to complain how they paid for their avatar size, just increase it to 165x165 or something, and thus we gain a win-win situation.

    The typical forum out there is still capping avatar sizes at 80x80 or other similar numbers smaller than 100x100. Going through other forums I am registered at and have frequented in the past, here are their current avatar caps (leaving forums unnamed):

    85x85 (Urban photos and lifestyle forum)
    No Cap (because all images are auto-resized to a 100x100 box; SimCity fansite)
    120x120 (other major Pokemon forum)
    No Custom Avatar until certain requirements are met (images are typically 100x100) (other major Pokemon forum)
    2 MB filesize limit (all images are auto-resized to a 80x80 box) (major webcomic site's forum)
    Preferred 200x200 minimum (since all images are auto-resized to a 96x96 box) (major Pokemon forum)
    80x80 (on this one, avatars are a VIP feature only, since the forums aren't the focus of the game) (online browser game)
    1 MB filesize limit (all images are resized to scale to fit to a 100x100 box) (legal streaming site's forums)
    100x125 (major anime cataloging site)
    No Custom Avatar ever (all images resized to 100x100) (major Pokemon TCG forum)
    200x200 preferred minimum (all images are auto-resized to 192x192 boxes, though this forum changed their forum software very recently) (other major Pokemon forum)



    This is just of the forums that I remember exist and can remember my logins for. Bolded are Pokemon forums for easy comparison to other fansites.



    As you can see, PC's regular member limit is already on the higher end, especially with regards to what will actually be displayed in the postbit. The only one higher for what is displayed in the postbit is that last Pokemon forum. Granted, this is a small sample size of forums, but 80x80 to 100x100 is typically the norm for avatar limits on forums (other forums I've frequented in the past are just escaping me at the moment, but the vast majority capped things at 80x80). If we raise all of the limits too high, it affects how usable PC is for those browsing from slower connections, as well as affecting site usability for those who are on smaller screens. And, if memory serves, the limits were raised quite a bit somewhere around a year and a half ago.
     
    As stated alot above:
    ~The average avatar size for most forums is 100x100 although i have seen various forums with 60x60 and 80x80.
    ~Many forums do not even offer or allow people to increase their avatar size while PC is one of few that do.
    ~Honestly 130x130 is big in my opinion as said most forums stick with 100x100 so i considered myself lucky to have an avatar everyone could see since on other forums most people just had to squint to see it.

    I understand that as someone under 18 you may not have access to a bank account or paypal or amazon and if you ask your parents they will most likely say no cause we are an online forum and most parents wouldnt really wanna spend their money on something that may seem in their heads a waste of time. So what could we do about this? Well there has been events ive seen where you can earn supporter ranks by posting alot so maybe we could increase those? Or give a forum wide amount of posts to get to a tier personally someone should at least get silver tier for over 10,000 or maybe 5000 posts it clearly would show theyre an active user.

    Now when it comes down to it as Hiroshi said we are not asking you to pay for perks rather donate to a site because there's usually alot more to running a website/forum than it looks to some and there are charges of coarse for servers and domains as well. So on the donating area id be glad to donate to PC when im 18 which im currently not but i would and the perks are just a little thank you from our glorious upper staff people that for some can be viewed as an incentive but many forums ask for donations and give nothing in return except your normal forum experience so currently i dont see anything wrong with the donation system and i hope i didnt make anyones eyes bleed.
    ~Cheers!
     
    Thoughts on stuff said so far:


    • "Other forums have larger avatar dimensions": questionable. From this sample, we see that avatar sizes and limitations are highly variable and that our standard users appear to sit relatively high in comparison to other forums. This argument doesn't hold real weight.

    • "Increasing limits will discourage donations": a) if avatar sizes are as big a deal as they're being made out to be in here then this is certainly true, haha. But anyway I agree with this to an extent. Increasing avatar sizes to 150x for regular members results in the removal of a perk from the Silver tier (and the "raise Silver limitations" argument is an example of the snowball effect, and is therefore an argument against raising avatar limits), and it is undeniable that some people do donate for perks alone. In fact, it's pretty ineffectual to debate if people donate for donation's sake or for the perks because the answer is "both". People donate for all sorts of reasons and I'm sure that many of them include perks, and many don't. However, the fact that some of them are for perks means that perks are still an important consideration when discussing things like this.

    However you should remember that b), as Jake pointed out, supportership is not a purchase. It is a donation. Therefore, if we were to raise regular avatar limits, this does not mean that we have short-changed the supporters. The supporter system is highly fluid and has changed, and will continue to change, dramatically over time. So, while as I said earlier it is important that we consider which perks are available to our supporters as some people donate for those perks, the argument that it is unfair on supporters for us to up the avatar limit isn't valid as supporters didn't purchase a larger avatar limit (or, well, anything). This is not to say that we will disregard the opinions of existing supporters on this, but it does mean that we aren't bound by any sale to you to give you a larger avatar than a regular member.

    • "130x is too small": more subjective, but I disagree entirely. A post is about its content, not the image sat next to it. 130x is more than ample to lend a little individuality to your post along with our generous signature limits and usertitle length limits. Additionally, the 1MB filesize limit allows you to use reasonably sized animated .gifs and high-quality images. Make your posts stand out by their content, not by the fluff surrounding it (which, as I say, we already give you quite a lot of).

    • "Just donate for it": while we offer a range of ways to purchase supportership, this isn't viable or desirable for everybody. This is unfortunate, but short of scrapping the entire supporter system and giving everyone everything, we cannot resolve this issue. As Shovel Knight correctly pointed out, it's impossible to make everybody happy and put everybody on the same level with the system we currently have. On a personal note I would like nothing more than to scrap supportership and take the entire money aspect out of PokéCommunity, but this isn't viable and obviously isn't going to happen. So while I don't think that "spend money on it" is an excellent answer to this, I do acknowledge that it's the only one that we have and that, as long as we use our supporter system, it's always going to have to be an answer. It isn't going anywhere so there's no point in debating it.


    So, my thoughts on if we should up the avatar limits or not: no, we should not. I think that what you have is ample and that upping it would cause issues on the supporter end of things. I don't agree with every argument against raising avatar limits presented in this thread, but the ones that I think are valid are enough to convince me not to support this.

    ...of course that's just my (excessively long-winded) view on things but there you go. $0.02 and all that.
     
    Honestly, I don't know why avatar sizes aren't contextually scaled. Someone with a 4K monitor (or even 1080p for that matter) won't be affected by a 200x200 avatar at all. In fact you could go much larger without any problems.

    Either way, giving people different avatar sizes (especially as low as 130x130) is really 2002. In the interest in following decent design convention and organisation I think everyone should be allowed have the same size, and if possible have down-scaling for those with small screen resolutions and/or window space. You already have the option to make all avatars smaller per user via the control panel, so why bother giving people different limits at all?

    Before someone says "but supporters!", privilege shouldn't come before convention and functionality.
     
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