Lillie & Kanto in USUM

[thedestinedblade]

Man, most of this community's thoughts on Lillie differ way more than the rest of the internet. :P

I think it's just the vocal minority being loud, lol. I don't particularly care for her, but I'd say, in general, she was well received by most of the fanbase.

 

[Alexander18]

I also find it hilarious that people are peddling Gladion for a better choice when he has even less of a personality than Lillie does. Gladion is just kinda there. He's massively overshadowed by his mother and his sister, and having him take any kind of central role would be even worse if these games are continuations because there's nothing to build on with him. He's a waste of space.

Sorry but gladion has more personality than lillie. He has better development and is not overshadowed. Lillie is the one that is a waste of space.

 

[pkmin3033]

Sorry but gladion has more personality than lillie. He has better development and is not overshadowed. Lillie is the one that is a waste of space.

He doesn't get ANY development, he's barely in the game! xD

I won't argue over Lillie being a waste of space, but to say that Gladion has any personality at all when he's possibly the most minor NPC there is and barely appears at all is ridiculous. He's an afterthought.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

I like both Gladion and Lillie. I think that they're both interesting characters in their own right. Probably the most interesting ones since N.

 

[Palamon]

LOL @ all the Lillie hate in here. Hilarious. Anyway, I can't see her not being in the games, but I doubt Kanto will happen. Kanto hasn't been a thing since HG/SS, so.

 

[Lunar]

Yeah I really doubt we'll see Kanto tbh, but Lille is 50/50 imo, she could either play a big part in the story, or just appear in a potential post-game story or battle facility.

 

[MegaKuriboh]

God damn the Lillie and Gladion hate in here is real. Both are really great and fun characters, I LOVED Lillie's character arc, it feels like they wanted to do something like that with Shauna and horribly failed, but with Lillie, I was so happy to see her gain strength and want to save her mother, even if she was horribly fiendish to her, I really hope she becomes a strong trainer in Kanto.

Gladion, well is more of the stereotypical edgelord character, Silver 2.0 if you may, but I still love him, he has a big heart and is a strong trainer, and with Hau strikes a nice balance between the two types of Pokemon rivals, so it was nice to see him. His character arc was rather small though, he went from being a complete dick, to not so much a dick, pretty much a Tsundere, but I still think he was great.

I don't think we're going to Kanto at all in this game, although I feel like a Kanto Remake/Reboot may happen in Gen 8, and hopefully in there we'll see Lillie.

 

[Alexander18]

He doesn't get ANY development, he's barely in the game! xD

I won't argue over Lillie being a waste of space, but to say that Gladion has any personality at all when he's possibly the most minor NPC there is and barely appears at all is ridiculous. He's an afterthought.

Wrong. Gladion has more personality and appears at a decent amount of times. He has development in the game and that is fact. Lillie makes too much appearances, has lack of personality and lack of development. Lillie is a afterthought. Again that is fact.

 

[pkmin3033]

Wrong. Gladion has more personality and appears at a decent amount of times. He has development in the game and that is fact. Lillie makes too much appearances, has lack of personality and lack of development. Lillie is a afterthought. Again that is fact.

...you really need to learn what the difference between fact and opinion is.

 

[Alexander18]

...you really need to learn what the difference between fact and opinion is.

I do know. I happen to have the facts. You don't. Gladion will always be superior in every aspect.

 

[pkmin3033]

I do know. I happen to have the facts. You don't. Gladion will always be superior in every aspect.

Fact: a thing that is known or proved to be true.

Opinion: a view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

Show me proof. I dare you. Your opinion is not fact. Get over yourself, seriously. I never once claimed to have anything other than an opinion, and nor will I ever because, unlike you, I recognise these things are down to personal preference. I know exactly what my views are, and what they are not. You clearly do not if you think you can tell me I'm wrong for disagreeing with you. Who the hell do you think you are to tell me that your opinion is objectively superior to mine? Try learning the definition of words before you start throwing them around. You clearly have no idea what differentiates fact from opinion if you think what you're saying is fact.

...Gladion isn't even relevant to this thread anyway, so I think I'm just about done with this line of conversation. At least until you can give me more than just "this is fact" which, I'm guessing, will never happen. So have fun with that.

Mooooving on.

I wonder if the Lillie we get in these games will tie her hair back? If it's an alternate story, and not a sequel, I'd actually quite like HER to be the one to join Team Skull this time. I remember seeing those godawful Kingdom Hearts costume reject designs of Gladion which were later proved to be fake (I think?) but it gets me to thinking: what would it be like if they completely changed her? I'd quite like to see Team Skull Lillie, if only because I've seen so many fan mashups of it with her frowny face and I think it'd be hilarious if she was like that for the whole game. xD

 

[thedestinedblade]

I wanna see what plays out if Lillie is actually caught by the Aether employees at the beginning of the game. {XD}

 

[pkmin3033]

I wanna see what plays out if Lillie is actually caught by the Aether employees at the beginning of the game. {XD}

In that scenario, does Nebby teleport away on its own and leave her behind? xD

 

[Alexander18]

Show me proof. I dare you. Your opinion is not fact. Get over yourself, seriously. I never once claimed to have anything other than an opinion, and nor will I ever because, unlike you, I recognise these things are down to personal preference. I know exactly what my views are, and what they are not. You clearly do not if you think you can tell me I'm wrong for disagreeing with you. Who the hell do you think you are to tell me that your opinion is objectively superior to mine? Try learning the definition of words before you start throwing them around. You clearly have no idea what differentiates fact from opinion if you think what you're saying is fact.

...Gladion isn't even relevant to this thread anyway, so I think I'm just about done with this line of conversation. At least until you can give me more than just "this is fact" which, I'm guessing, will never happen. So have fun with that.

Mooooving on.

I wonder if the Lillie we get in these games will tie her hair back? If it's an alternate story, and not a sequel, I'd actually quite like HER to be the one to join Team Skull this time. I remember seeing those godawful Kingdom Hearts costume reject designs of Gladion which were later proved to be fake (I think?) but it gets me to thinking: what would it be like if they completely changed her? I'd quite like to see Team Skull Lillie, if only because I've seen so many fan mashups of it with her frowny face and I think it'd be hilarious if she was like that for the whole game. xD

SM is proof that Gladion is a good character. I said Gladion is superior. Not my opinion. Don't put words in my mouth. Who do you think you are? And you get over yourself. Go look up the definition of fact yourself cause you need to learn it. I know what facts and opinions are unlike you. Gladion is just as relevent. Both are siblings. Keep your attitude to yourself. Lillie is not gonna be team skull. Lillie has awful outfits. Gladion has better by far.

 

[pkmin3033]

I said Gladion is superior. Not my opinion.

What part of this, precisely, is fact? I disagree with it. I do not think it is fact. Are you telling me I'm wrong?

Show me proof. Just saying "SM shows it" is not proof. A single statement without a proper, comprehensive explanation is not adequate proof. Provide me with examples I cannot refute of how and why Gladion is the superior character. That are impartial and objective. Provide me with some absolute proof that your statement, "Gladion is superior" is fact. Until you can do that, your OPINION - again, look at those definitions, read them very carefully - is just that - your opinion. I can disagree, and you cannot prove me wrong for disagreeing, any more than I can prove you wrong for saying it.

The difference between us is that I am aware that my opinion is an opinion and I am not trying to force it on you the way you are attempting you force your opinion on me by claiming it is fact. I am not putting words in your mouth. I am directly quoting you and asking you, very reasonably, to show how that is fact and not opinion. If you're claiming it as fact, then you need to back that up with more than that, because I can just turn around and counter all of that with an argument of my own and it holds just as much validity as your statement.

I'm pretty sure I provided a definition of "fact" in my earlier post too, and I am perfectly aware of what the word means. Thank you for your concern, but my grasp of the English language is quite sound. Did I not just prove so by providing a definition? A factual, recognised definition that I could source, if you wish. But have I ever once claimed that my opinion is fact? Again, as I've told you before in other topics, you might want to try reading what other people post, rather than just dismissing it because you disagree with it.

I'm not putting any words in your mouth. I am telling you that there is no objective basis for your opinion. I do not have an attitude, I just do not appreciate you telling me that you're right and I am wrong when it is a matter of opinion as to which character is better. There is no objectivity in subjective matter. I'm not going to refute your right to disagree; you're entitled to your opinion. What I WILL object to is you acting like you're absolutely right and that anyone who disagrees with you is wrong. Which is what you are implying with your high-and-mighty attitude and claiming that your opinion is fact. Saying that you KNOW, and therefore that other people who disagree with you do not. If you don't want people to take offense, try wording it to be less offensive.

 

[Alexander18]

What part of this, precisely, is fact? I disagree with it. I do not think it is fact. Are you telling me I'm wrong?

Show me proof. Just saying "SM shows it" is not proof. Provide me with examples I cannot refute of how Gladion is the superior character. Provide me with some absolute, subjective proof that your statement, "Gladion is superior" is fact. Until you can do that, your OPINION - again, look at those definitions, read them very carefully - is just that - your opinion. I can disagree, and you cannot prove me wrong for disagreeing, any more than I can prove you wrong for saying it. The difference between us is that I am aware that my opinion is an opinion and I am not trying to force it on you the way you are attempting you force your opinion on me by claiming it is fact. I am not putting words in your mouth. I am directly quoting you and asking you, very reasonably, to show how that is fact and not opinion.

I'm pretty sure I provided a definition of "fact" in my earlier post too, and I am perfectly aware of what the word means. Did I not just prove so by providing a definition? Have I ever once claimed that my opinion is fact? Again, as I've told you before in other topics, you might want to try reading what other people post, rather than just dismissing it because you disagree with it.

I'm not putting any words in your mouth. I am telling you that there is no objective basis for your opinion. I do not have an attitude. I just do not appreciate you telling me that you're right and I am wrong when it is a matter of opinion as to which character is better. There is no objectivity in subjective matter. I'm not going to refute your right to disagree; you're entitled to your opinion. What I WILL object to is you acting like you're absolutely right and that anyone who disagrees with you is wrong. Which is what you are implying with your high-and-mighty attitude and claiming that your opinion is fact. If you don't want people to take offense, try wording it to be less offensive.

Sorry but i am not the one with the high and mighty attitude. That is you. You keep shoving lillie is great in my face. She is not great for me. I stand my opinion that gladion is better. And yes, you were putting words in my mouth. I never said my opinion is superior. I said Gladion is superior. Don't turned that around. I will never like lillie. You can't make me.

 

[pkmin3033]

You keep shoving lillie is great in my face.

You definitely need to read my earlier posts about Lillie if you think that. I don't think I ever said or even implied that I thought Lillie was great. I don't. All I've said is that I'm interested to see what they might do with her and that, proportionately, if the games were sequels I think it'd be a waste of time to promote Gladion, because I don't think he was in the game enough to develop a proper character.

I feel he was a waste of space and an afterthought because he did not appear anywhere near as much as his sister. I realise that frequency of appearance does not equate to good character development. But you cannot develop a character by proxy; they need to be present, constantly, so you can SEE that change happen. Gladion just didn't appear enough, in my opinion.

That does not mean I think she's great. I think she's a priority for the developers - which I think could be assumed through the frequency of her appearance - but I don't think she's great. She was lacking as a character as well, but more effort was put into her given the frequency of her appearance in SM, so based upon that I think they have more existing material to build on. If her character is different in USUM that goes out the window. But if it isn't then I think they have more to build upon.

Go back and actually read my posts. I never said, at any point, I thought Lillie was a good character.

I stand my opinion that gladion is better.

I said Gladion is superior. Not my opinion.

I'm sorry, what?

And yes, you were putting words in my mouth. I never said my opinion is superior. I said Gladion is superior. Don't turned that around. I will never like lillie. You can't make me.

I'm not trying to make you. Like I said, you're entitled to your opinion. But claiming that your opinion is fact implies that anyone who disagrees with you is wrong. Which is not the case. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Denying people that right by claiming that yours is fact, and implying that it is superior - which IS what you are implying; that is not putting words into your mouth, that is explaining to you how your statement will appear to others - is not OK. That's all there is to it, really.

 

[Alexander18]

You definitely need to read my earlier posts about Lillie if you think that. I don't think I ever said or even implied that I thought Lillie was great. I don't. All I've said is that I'm interested to see what they might do with her and that, proportionately, if the games were sequels I think it'd be a waste of time to promote Gladion, because I don't think he was in the game enough to develop a proper character.

I feel he was a waste of space and an afterthought because he did not appear anywhere near as much as his sister. I realise that frequency of appearance does not equate to good character development. But you cannot develop a character by proxy; they need to be present, constantly, so you can SEE that change happen. Gladion just didn't appear enough, in my opinion.

That does not mean I think she's great. I think she's a priority for the developers - which I think could be assumed through the frequency of her appearance - but I don't think she's great. She was lacking as a character as well, but more effort was put into her given the frequency of her appearance in SM, so based upon that I think they have more existing material to build on. If her character is different in USUM that goes out the window. But if it isn't then I think they have more to build upon.

Go back and actually read my posts. I never said, at any point, I thought Lillie was a good character.



I'm sorry, what?


I'm not trying to make you. Like I said, you're entitled to your opinion. But claiming that your opinion is fact implies that anyone who disagrees with you is wrong. Which is not the case. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Denying people that right by claiming that yours is fact, and implying that it is superior - which IS what you are implying; that is not putting words into your mouth, that is explaining to you how your statement will appear to others - is not OK. That's all there is to it, really.

You are not listening. I said gladion is superior. I never said nor implied my opinion is better. I am tired of arguing. Agree to disagree. I feel connected to gladion and feel he was a good character. My opinion.

 

[pkmin3033]

You are not listening. I said gladion is superior. I never said nor implied my opinion is better. I am tired of arguing. Agree to disagree. I feel connected to gladion and feel he was a good character. My opinion.

Claiming your opinion is fact IS implying your opinion is better. That was my point, and my objection. Saying "this is fact" when it is your opinion. I'm comfortable to agree to disagree on the point of Gladion being better or worse than Lillie as a character, though.

Unfortunately, I highly doubt fan feedback will contribute to how much either of them appear; generally Lillie was very well received by the fans, and it seems likely they will want to pursue that in some form. Although the possibility that Gladion could replace Lillie as the hand-holding guide character, if these are alternate story games, is not entirely remote. Seeing things from his perspective, with a role reversal of sorts going on, could be interesting.

 

[Nah]

He has development in the game and that is fact. Lillie makes too much appearances, has lack of personality and lack of development.

Just saying, none of the characters in Sun/Moon have any real character development.

This is not to say that they all have literally no development, but it's so absolutely minimal really.

If it's an alternate story, and not a sequel, I'd actually quite like HER to be the one to join Team Skull this time...... what would it be like if they completely changed her? I'd quite like to see Team Skull Lillie, if only because I've seen so many fan mashups of it with her frowny face and I think it'd be hilarious if she was like that for the whole game. xD

That might be kind of interesting to see, Gladion and Lillie switch roles....or it'd be slightly amusing at least.