Moveset Help & Other Questions (FAQ in first post)

[PlatinumDude]

How EXACTLY does critical hits work? I know that no matter how many boosts the target gave to it's Def (for example) if you inflict a critical hit then all the boosts are ignored and it does the same damage it would have done if the target had done no boosts. That's fine, I get that, HOWEVER:

I recently read that ALL stat boosts are ignored when you inflict a critical hit, meaning that if I boosted by own Attack stat via Sword's Dance or whatever, if I THEN inflict a critical hit, then the boosts I gave myself are ignored and I inflict the same damage I would have inflicted if I never boosted at all. Is that true? (cause it certainly alters one of my strategies!) and if so, man that's a dumb mechanic where a critical hit does LESS damage than a normal (although boosted) attack.

You're talking about the Gen I mechanics of critical hits. Gen II onwards take offensive boosts into consideration when calculating critical hit damage.

Critical hit ratios are divided in 3 stages. All moves without an enhanced critical hit ratio (Slash and its variants) have a base critical stage of +0. In that stage, there is a 6.25% chance of scoring a critical hit. At +1 (the aforementioned Slash and variants), there is a 12.5% chance of scoring a critical hit. At +2, the odds of getting a critical hit is 50%, and at +3, you always get a critical hit.

Further mechanics here.

 

[JohnnyGolduck]

General question

Not sure if this would be in this forum, but here goes...

Just hatched a perfect Elektrike and EV trained him and all that good stuff. For his moveset I'm going with Volt Switch, Thunderbolt, Flamethrower and ________. So I check Smogon to see what would be a good move for the last spot and mostly it says Hidden Power Ice or Hidden Power Grass. Checked his Hidden Power in Anistar and she said it's dark. So what should I go with for the last slot? Hidden Power Dark? Would Snarl be a better choice? I was thinking Toxic or Thunder Wave maybe. Does anyone have a preference?

 

[PlatinumDude]

Not sure if this would be in this forum, but here goes...

Just hatched a perfect Elektrike and EV trained him and all that good stuff. For his moveset I'm going with Volt Switch, Thunderbolt, Flamethrower and ________. So I check Smogon to see what would be a good move for the last spot and mostly it says Hidden Power Ice or Hidden Power Grass. Checked his Hidden Power in Anistar and she said it's dark. So what should I go with for the last slot? Hidden Power Dark? Would Snarl be a better choice? I was thinking Toxic or Thunder Wave maybe. Does anyone have a preference?

Ice is definitely the preferred Hidden Power type, as it achieves near-perfect coverage with (Mega) Manectric's other moves. A 2x supereffective Snarl or HP Dark are outdamaged by a neutral STAB Thunderbolt. You'll need to do some re-breeidng I'm afraid.

 

[gimmepie]

M-Manectric outspeeds pretty much everything and is really frail. So T-Wave doesn't do much good for it, it can't really afford to waste time on shocking anything and ground types are already a huge problem. If it's on like 1 HP maybe toxic could be a nasty bit of revenge but really the ideal move is definitely HP Ice I'm afraid.

 

[SporreKing]

Specific case of Umbreon Build - Help

I recently got my first shiny pokemon by breeding, it was an eevee - I've always liked the shiny Umbreon and was planning to get this. Generally the IVs of the hatched eevees were perfected in 4+ stats and the sum was Outstanding (stat judge).

When my shiny occured I only got Relatively Superior from the stat judge and I also got the nature Bold (I did not know of the everstone inheriting). However, it did get 4 maxed IVs (HP, Def, Sp. Def, Sp. Attack).

I looked up some builds for Umbreon and realized that I do not have curse on it, which seems to be popular, is this a big trouble for viability?

I'm going for a tank build, but I also realized that it uses Attack primarily instead of Sp. Attack (with payback etc).

Considering that I don't have curse, and that Bold drags down my attack stats. (My Attack IV is not perfected btw), would it still be competitively viable to go for a Umbreon build with these stats?
Is it possible to replace curse and payback with something equally as good? Maybe go for a Sp. Attack approach instead of Attack?

The base stats for Attack and Sp. Attack are
Attack: 65
Sp. Attack: 60

Does this 5 make much of a difference? (I am not very used to constructing pokemon teams/builds)


Of course foul play would work but curse is still an issue.

I would like some advice as to if it still is completely viable to use this Eevee as an Umbreon or if I should go for something else. Suggestions for possible builds etc (moveset / item) are also appreciated.

(I could go for a Vamporeon but it is not prefferable.)

 

[PlatinumDude]

I recently got my first shiny pokemon by breeding, it was an eevee - I've always liked the shiny Umbreon and was planning to get this. Generally the IVs of the hatched eevees were perfected in 4+ stats and the sum was Outstanding (stat judge).

When my shiny occured I only got Relatively Superior from the stat judge and I also got the nature Bold (I did not know of the everstone inheriting). However, it did get 4 maxed IVs (HP, Def, Sp. Def, Sp. Attack).

I looked up some builds for Umbreon and realized that I do not have curse on it, which seems to be popular, is this a big trouble for viability?

I'm going for a tank build, but I also realized that it uses Attack primarily instead of Sp. Attack (with payback etc).

Considering that I don't have curse, and that Bold drags down my attack stats. (My Attack IV is not perfected btw), would it still be competitively viable to go for a Umbreon build with these stats?
Is it possible to replace curse and payback with something equally as good? Maybe go for a Sp. Attack approach instead of Attack?

The base stats for Attack and Sp. Attack are
Attack: 65
Sp. Attack: 60

Does this 5 make much of a difference? (I am not very used to constructing pokemon teams/builds)


Of course foul play would work but curse is still an issue.

I would like some advice as to if it still is completely viable to use this Eevee as an Umbreon or if I should go for something else. Suggestions for possible builds etc (moveset / item) are also appreciated.

(I could go for a Vamporeon but it is not prefferable.)

Curse is a terrible setup move for Umbreon, IMO, given its terrible offensive presence outside of Foul Play. A specially defensive spread for Umbreon is also better than a physically defensive one, as two of its weaknesses, Bug and Fighting, are primarily physical:
-Wish
-Protect
-Foul Play
-Heal Bell
Nature: Calm
EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 SDef
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize

As your Eevee is Bold, you're better off evolving it into Vaporeon:
-Wish
-Protect
-Scald
-Heal Bell/Roar/Baton Pass
Nature: Bold
EVs: 208 HP/248 Def/56 SDef
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb

 

[Bellsprout]

What would be the best nature for elektross in black? This is just going to be on an in game team. Since it has a higher attack I would typically just go with an adamant nature but I keep reading a lot of different opinions on it.

 

[Nah]

What would be the best nature for elektross in black? This is just going to be on an in game team. Since it has a higher attack I would typically just go with an adamant nature but I keep reading a lot of different opinions on it.

That'd probably be because it has both a decent special and physical movepool, and whether or not you're reading pages that are more competitively inclined or not.

Since you're playing Black and not Black 2 though you lose out on a lot of its physical moves since no move tutors, and the only other physical Electric move it gets is Wild Charge, which you don't get the TM for until Victory Road, or have to wait until Eelektrik gets all the way to level 59.

So basically I think that you're gonna wanna go Quiet to make the most of its Electric STAB (and any other special moves you'll wanna use) while not weakening some of the physical moves you might wanna use (even without move tutors you still get some decent stuff for in-game like Dragon Claw, Crunch, Brick Break or Rock Slide/Tomb), its Speed is bad to begin with anyway.

 

[SporreKing]

Curse is a terrible setup move for Umbreon, IMO, given its terrible offensive presence outside of Foul Play. A specially defensive spread for Umbreon is also better than a physically defensive one, as two of its weaknesses, Bug and Fighting, are primarily physical:
-Wish
-Protect
-Foul Play
-Heal Bell
Nature: Calm
EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 SDef
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize

As your Eevee is Bold, you're better off evolving it into Vaporeon:
-Wish
-Protect
-Scald
-Heal Bell/Roar/Baton Pass
Nature: Bold
EVs: 208 HP/248 Def/56 SDef
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb

So in other words it is not considered viable to go for a sp. Attack tank instead of normal attack for Umbreon, considering the 5 step difference in attack and sp.attack base stats?

Foul Play is not an option considerable?

 

[PlatinumDude]

So in other words it is not considered viable to go for a sp. Attack tank instead of normal attack for Umbreon, considering the 5 step difference in attack and sp.attack base stats?

Foul Play is not an option considerable?

For the second point, Foul Play is absolutely mandatory on Umbreon, as it's very offensively weak, since that move will use the target's Attack to calculate damage instead of the user's.

 

[SporreKing]

Why is Calm considered better than bold for Umbreon?

Also, is this as viable for an Umbreon build as a wish build?
* Toxic
* Protect
* Moonlight
* Foul Play
?

 

[PlatinumDude]

Why is Calm considered better than bold for Umbreon?

Also, is this as viable for an Umbreon build as a wish build?
* Toxic
* Protect
* Moonlight
* Foul Play
?

Like I said before, Umbreon's weaknesses to Bug and Fighting, which are common physical attacking types, makes a Bold nature on Umbreon moot. Wish is better on Umbreon, since it can be passed off to teammates when needed.

 

[JohnnyGolduck]

Hey everyone. Thinking about making a Tangrowth. It seems like there's a lot you can do with him. Any suggestions?

I've been poking around on Pokemon Showdown messing with different movesets and stuff. How does this look?

Item: Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator

Moveset:
Knock Off
Giga Drain
Leech Seed
Protect

Nature: Relaxed (+Defense, -Speed)
EVs
HP: 401, 240 EVs
AT: 236
DE: 350, 132 EVs
SA: 290, 136 EVs
SD: 136
SP: 122

Right now he's looking like a slower, defensive version of my Venusaur which works pretty well for me.

Any suggestions?

 

[PlatinumDude]

Hey everyone. Thinking about making a Tangrowth. It seems like there's a lot you can do with him. Any suggestions?

I've been poking around on Pokemon Showdown messing with different movesets and stuff. How does this look?

Item: Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator

Moveset:
Knock Off
Giga Drain
Leech Seed
Protect

Nature: Relaxed (+Defense, -Speed)
EVs
HP: 401, 240 EVs
AT: 236
DE: 350, 132 EVs
SA: 290, 136 EVs
SD: 136
SP: 122

Right now he's looking like a slower, defensive version of my Venusaur which works pretty well for me.

Any suggestions?

Unless those Special Attack EVs let Tangrowth get notable KOs, don't bother with them. Max HP/max Defense makes the most out of Tangrowth's physical bulk:
-Giga Drain/Leaf Storm
-Knock Off/Toxic/Protect
-Leech Seed/Synthesis
-Sleep Powder
Nature: Relaxed/Bold
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SDef
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator

Another option is to go Assault Vest to patch up Tangrowth's bad special bulk:
-Giga Drain/Leaf Storm
-Knock Off
-Earthquake
-Hidden Power (Ice/Fire)
Nature: Sassy
EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 SDef
Item: Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator

 

[Soopa Derp Cat]

Sturdy + Focus Sash = ?

I both googled this question and searched for a topic on it, so I'm going to just assume that this question doesn't come up often, at least not enough to be considered repetitious.


What I want to know is, if I give a Pokémon with the ability Sturdy a Focus Sash, will it be able to survive one KO move with the sash and another with the sturdy, or will it activate sturdy first, thus rendering the sash ineffectual, OR will it activate both at the same time, thus wasting the item entirely?

 

[punkysaur]

I can't understand why would anyone run focus sash+sturdy on the same mon.(Unless u play in a metagame filled with atleast 50% mold breakers or similar ability mons)
Now as to your question:
Sturdy will activate since it will negate the move entirely.Also even if u get in a situation where every time u get at full hp again after getting hit(pain split nosepass gimmick),in that condition still every time sturdy would work and not focus sash.So u won't at all find any use for focus sash thus wasting an item slot.

 

[Tigertom2004]

Hi, I'm wondering about what move set I should go with for a near-perfect IV dragonite,
Right now I've got
Dragon Claw
Iron Head
Roost
Dragon Dance
It has a naughty Nature
It's Ability is Multiscale
It's got full attack EVs and it's got full speed EVs
Its item is leftovers
Is this the right kind of move set for a dragonite?

 

[PlatinumDude]

Hi, I'm wondering about what move set I should go with for a near-perfect IV dragonite,
Right now I've got
Dragon Claw
Iron Head
Roost
Dragon Dance
It has a naughty Nature
It's Ability is Multiscale
It's got full attack EVs and it's got full speed EVs
Its item is leftovers
Is this the right kind of move set for a dragonite?

While it's true that Dragonite can deal with Fairy Pokemon with Iron Head, it's currently walled by Steel Pokemon. Earthquake is the preferred coverage attack. Dragonite's Speed isn't the best, meaning that Extreme Speed is a handy move on it for hitting weakened attackers. It can even hit Talonflame before it uses Brave Bird. Outrage is also a stronger STAB than Dragon Claw. Yes, the confusion is a problem, but Lum Berry can cure it:
-Dragon Dance
-Outrage
-Earthquake
-Extreme Speed
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
Item: Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale

 

[rarezzzz___]

Anyone has a good moveset for a lv. 33 LeafGreen Jolteon? I have these bad moves like Flash and Quick Attack... I have Hyper beam and Double kick as better moves....

 

[Tigertom2004]

While it's true that Dragonite can deal with Fairy Pokemon with Iron Head, it's currently walled by Steel Pokemon. Earthquake is the preferred coverage attack. Dragonite's Speed isn't the best, meaning that Extreme Speed is a handy move on it for hitting weakened attackers. It can even hit Talonflame before it uses Brave Bird. Outrage is also a stronger STAB than Dragon Claw. Yes, the confusion is a problem, but Lum Berry can cure it:
-Dragon Dance
-Outrage
-Earthquake
-Extreme Speed
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
Item: Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale

Thanks for helping me with that,
Dragonite is my favorite Pokemon and I wanted to use it competitively, I'll use that moveset:)