Super Smash Bros. Discussion

[El Héroe Oscuro]

IN OTHER NEWS, Snake probably won't come back, and the game is worse for it since he was one of the best designed characters.

That stinks to hear, I really liked playing as him. What makes you think he isn't coming back?

 

[Klippy]

Just look at Game n' Watch in the top image. All pixelated and pushing into Wario's box. Fake.

Duck Hunt is a HILARIOUSLY awesome idea though. I actually would enjoy that addition.

 

[El Héroe Oscuro]

I wish Banjo/Kazooie was a viable option to play as. Too bad Rare is owned by Microsoft.

 

[TRIFORCE89]

I wish Nintendo would just buy the IP. They don't need Rare. The team that worked on the game is no longer there. They're scattered about, Nintendo could assemble them like super heroes and make a team to be games for the West

 

[Klippy]

The Banjo series is basically dead (Nuts n Bolts was...not fun and NOT a Banjo game). I am willing to bet the IP is not that pricey when compared to what Microsoft bought it for back in the day.

Smash 4 would sell like hotcakes if the final reveal trailer was Banjo & Kazooie stepping out of their hut with the classic theme remixed in the background and text saying, "BANJO & KAZOOIE RETURN HOME" or something. :P

 

[DJTiki]

Sakurai is one big troll. This morning, he updated the official website, on Link's Tab, and added a certain someone, in it.

Yes Ghiriham(or however you spell it) too tired to actually look it up. So is he decomfirmed or was he just revealed? WHO KNOWS?! One thing we do know is his tounge and holy hell is it just as slightly disturbing, as always.

EDIT: This is most likely the screenshot of the day, Sakurai wanted to talk about, I just got here, before he tweeted/miiversed out.

 

[Pinkie-Dawn]

Despite no longer being a one-time Zelda character thanks to Hyrule Warriors, Ghirahim still suffered the same fate as Skull Kid and Midna (perhaps Sakurai wasn't fully aware of Hyrule Warriors when developing SSB4 unlike Pokémon XY). This disconfirmation means either the trophy theory was only a mere coincidence or it was hinting towards Impa this entire time.

 

[Klippy]

Sakurai is one big troll. This morning, he updated the official website, on Link's Tab, and added a certain someone, in it.

Yes Ghiriham(or however you spell it) too tired to actually look it up. So is he decomfirmed or was he just revealed? WHO KNOWS?! One thing we do know is his tounge and holy hell is it just as slightly disturbing, as always.

EDIT: This is most likely the screenshot of the day, Sakurai wanted to talk about, I just got here, before he tweeted/miiversed out.

Sakurai confirmed that he would be appearing as a trophy, not a combatant.

Honestly, I just really want them to reveal Dixie Kong. :/ I really wanna play as her and she deserves to be in the game, or Cranky or K. Rool. I'm sick of Donkey Kong being given no respect, especially after Tropical Freeze. If Fire Emblem got more representatives, then Donkey Kong most certainly does!

As long as the leak that came out doesn't mean we really are getting Dark Pit and Dr. Mario. Seriously wasted roster space.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Why are they waste of space?

And Dr. Mario is the best remaining Melee vet.

 

[Klippy]

Why are they waste of space?

And Dr. Mario is the best remaining Melee vet.

Unless they seriously revamped Dr. Mario, he's basically no different than regular Mario (should've just been a costume for Mario), same for Dark Pit. Unless they're different enough, I just think we could've been given more valuable characters to fill those two spots. Dixie Kong, another Zelda representative (Tingle, anyone?), Waluigi, Ridley, Dillion (from Dillon's Rolling Western), Mallow (from PushMo), one of the Splatoon Inklings, and so on.

I just want a roster of unique characters showcasing their personalities. Dr. Mario and Dark Pit (I'm just assuming here) are most likely the closest to clones we will get, along with Lucina. I like having Little Mac in the game because he is a unique fighter, same with the Villager, and any of the characters I mentioned above would offer a more unique play experience than copies of characters already present.

Granted, the leak isn't confirmed.

 

[Spinosaurus]

If clones can provide different playstyles regardless of their similar movesets, what's the problem?

Both Doctor Mario and Falco in Melee were much more interesting and well designed than the majority of the characters in the same game, and despite looking identical I've played the game enough and watched a lot of tournament plays to tell you that yes, they're different enough. There's also other characters like Young Link that have showed much more potential than Regular Link with his keepaway game, even showing that he can counter a top tier (Jigglypuff) whereas Link can't. Also, every Marth player will tell you Roy is super different.

Granted, they're basically the same exact concept of the original characters they took from but executed different, but if they can add to the metagame and provide better match ups then what IS the issue? Especially since they don't take up a lot of resources, so if anything, consider them freebies, not waste of slots. Sakurai said himself that 6 clones took less work than one original character (who, in Melee, was supposed to be King Dedede), and half of those clones ended up fan favorites in the Smash scene. The only stinkers were Pichu and Roy.

Personally, I main Doctor Mario in Melee, but I don't like using Mario because the subtle changes do make all the differences. Doc allows me to rush head on first and kill quick, Mario doesn't.

 

[Nah]

Unless they seriously revamped Dr. Mario, he's basically no different than regular Mario (should've just been a costume for Mario), same for Dark Pit. Unless they're different enough, I just think we could've been given more valuable characters to fill those two spots. Dixie Kong, another Zelda representative (Tingle, anyone?), Waluigi, Ridley, Dillion (from Dillon's Rolling Western), Mallow (from PushMo), one of the Splatoon Inklings, and so on.

I just want a roster of unique characters showcasing their personalities. Dr. Mario and Dark Pit (I'm just assuming here) are most likely the closest to clones we will get, along with Lucina. I like having Little Mac in the game because he is a unique fighter, same with the Villager, and any of the characters I mentioned above would offer a more unique play experience than copies of characters already present.

Granted, the leak isn't confirmed.

We have plenty of unique characters on the roster as is, and will probably get a few more. I don't think that having clone characters is a bad thing, so long as half the roster isn't clones. Most of them are just barely different enough to make them their own thing and not a re-skin. You can clearly see it in characters like Roy, Ganondorf, Falco, and Lucas; all of their fighting styles are ripped from other characters, but they give them noticeable differences (Roy's a bit slower and hits harder with the middle of his blade and slightly harder in general, Ganondorf is heavier and generally stronger, Lucas's PK Fire works differently from Ness's, etc).

(Tingle, anyone?)

No. Just no.

 

[BrandoSheriff]

Sakurai confirmed that he would be appearing as a trophy, not a combatant.

I'm sad. At least I have Hyrule Warriors. T_T
I suppose you'll get your chance... another day...

 

[Klippy]

I'm sad. At least I have Hyrule Warriors. T_T
I suppose you'll get your chance... another day...

:P I'm actually surprised they have not chosen another Zelda villain for a Smash game. Zelda has a fairly rich antagonist pool. Especially one like Skull Kid, who could bring some crazy things to Smash.

 

[Pinkie-Dawn]

If clones can provide different playstyles regardless of their similar movesets, what's the problem?

Both Doctor Mario and Falco in Melee were much more interesting and well designed than the majority of the characters in the same game, and despite looking identical I've played the game enough and watched a lot of tournament plays to tell you that yes, they're different enough. There's also other characters like Young Link that have showed much more potential than Regular Link with his keepaway game, even showing that he can counter a top tier (Jigglypuff) whereas Link can't. Also, every Marth player will tell you Roy is super different.

Granted, they're basically the same exact concept of the original characters they took from but executed different, but if they can add to the metagame and provide better match ups then what IS the issue? Especially since they don't take up a lot of resources, so if anything, consider them freebies, not waste of slots. Sakurai said himself that 6 clones took less work than one original character (who, in Melee, was supposed to be King Dedede), and half of those clones ended up fan favorites in the Smash scene. The only stinkers were Pichu and Roy.

Personally, I main Doctor Mario in Melee, but I don't like using Mario because the subtle changes do make all the differences. Doc allows me to rush head on first and kill quick, Mario doesn't.

The problem I have with Dr. Mario's inclusion is because he creates a time paradox in the Mario universe. Both Sheik and Toon Link are understandable because there's canonically more than one Link and Zelda in their universe, whereas with Zero Suit Samus, you can give an explanation that her power suit was stolen much like in Metroid Fusion. Docter Mario is canonically the same Mario in the universe, and having two characters who are canonically one of the same co-existing in the same area is considered a time paradox. It's also why I'm not fond with the idea of Paper Mario as a playable character, because he too is canonically the same Mario from the main games, and the reason why the mushroom kingdom's made of paper is due to gameplay purposes much like different art styles in Zelda games despite having an official timeline.

 

[Spinosaurus]

The problem I have with Dr. Mario's inclusion is because he creates a time paradox in the Mario universe. Both Sheik and Toon Link are understandable because there's canonically more than one Link and Zelda in their universe, whereas with Zero Suit Samus, you can give an explanation that her power suit was stolen much like in Metroid Fusion. Docter Mario is canonically the same Mario in the universe, and having two characters who are canonically one of the same co-existing in the same area is considered a time paradox. It's also why I'm not fond with the idea of Paper Mario as a playable character, because he too is canonically the same Mario from the main games, and the reason why the mushroom kingdom's made of paper is due to gameplay purposes much like different art styles in Zelda games despite having an official timeline.

This is the same game where you can have four Marios fighting each other and THAT'S what's you're worried about? Or the fact that Dr. Mario was already in a Smash game before?

Your ZSS excuse is ridiculous when she's the exact same as Doctor Mario, the same character in a different costume.

 

[Pinkie-Dawn]

This is the same game where you can have four Marios fighting each other and THAT'S what's you're worried about? Or the fact that Dr. Mario was already in a Smash game before?

It's both. Time Paradoxes are my biggest peeves in fighting games and spin-off titles, because they tend to ruin the lore of a certain character if multiple versions of them co-exist as separate characters in the roster, unless they are legacy characters like Link and DK. Evil Ryu, for example, shouldn't exist as a separate character in the Street Fighter games, because he creates a time paradox in the series' storyline, where there is only one Ryu.

 

[PunkPhantom]

Isn't the official backstory of Smash Bros. that it's actually a kid playing with their toy figurines? So it's not like it's the real characters anyway.

 

[BrandoSheriff]

Isn't the official backstory of Smash Bros. that it's actually a kid playing with their toy figurines? So it's not like it's the real characters anyway.

Basically this. If Smash Bros paid any attention to any potential paradoxes, we wouldn't be able to choose the same character as our friend, or play as Zero Suit Samus when said friend is playing regular Samus.That wouldn't be very fun IMO.

And say there is a time paradox theory, it can technically be jossed anyway. Treat each clone character like the Zelda characters. Who's to say that Dr. Mario is from an earlier point in Mario's career, before he became a plumber or even a carpenter? And maybe when Zero Suit Samus is fighting, Alfonzo takes over the Power Suit whenever they're both in the same battle.

Continuity goes out the window with this series. It's a fighting game that melds all Nintendo universes (and some 3rd party ones) together, allowing for things like this to happen. There's no such thing as a time paradox or a continuity error in Smash Bros. :P

 

[Klippy]

I tend to agree with the "no continuity" side of the argument. I don't think these sorts of games are canonical in any way, but serve as a way to please fans of the franchises and offer a fun, unique experience. I really enjoyed the Subspace storyline, if only for the very well done CG videos that linked all our favorite heroes and villains together in the unique universe.