Tulsa, Oklahoma

[Altaria]

Terrance Crutcher, an unarmed black Father of four, was shot and killed by Tulsa Police on his way home from his class at Tulsa Community College.

His car had stalled out in the middle of the road and the police were called. When they arrived, he put his hands up and explained his situation, showing respect, being polite, doing everything he needed to do. Not once did he shout, resist an officer, run, or act in a way that showed ill intentions whatsoever. He was shot and killed with his hands still in the air.

Videos have been released to show that Crutcher did absolutely nothing wrong in this scenario and yet still was killed. He had no weapons. He simply wanted to get home from his class to see his family after a long day..and now his family is making funeral arrangements.

What are your thoughts on this? Personally, I think it's disgusting that Americans (like myself) get offended when a black man kneels during the national anthem but don't bat an eye when unarmed black people are killed by corrupt police officers every single day. It's disgusting that, to spare the feelings of the 'good cops', we completely ignore the bad ones and let them kill unjustly without reprehension. We say 'All Lives Matter!' until we're blue in the face, but never do we actually prove that we feel that way -- because we stay silent when our black brothers and sisters are getting killed for going about their everyday lives.

 

[Hands]

I think the saddest thing about this is I'm no longer shocked or surprised when I hear these things

 

[Altaria]

I think the saddest thing about this is I'm no longer shocked or surprised when I hear these things

Exactly. I'm even less surprised when I share these things on my news feed on Facebook and my racist family jumps to defend the actions of the cops simply because they truly believe that the excuse 'acting out of fear' is justifiable for taking someone's life. Despite the fact that no officer in their right mind should be afraid of a man treating them with respect, with his hands up.

But of course, they get absolutely OUTRAGED at the fact that people take the Morning After Pill and shout that it's murder.

 

[Hands]

Oh God, if I see one more "Blue lives matters" post I'm gonna explode. This is why BLM is a thing, this is why it needs to be a thing.

 

[GoldenAltaria]

This issue has gotten to the point where it should not (and frankly, cannot) be ignored by the general populace. It's saddening to me that people show more outrage towards football players like Colin Kaepernick, Brandon Marshall, etc. for kneeling during the national anthem than they do towards the killing of innocent individuals on what seems like a daily basis. To me, people who show ire towards players for kneeling towards the national anthem might be using their "anthem anger," as it were, to mask deeper-rooted prejudices within themselves (i.e. racism). The one thing I could truly see as an issue in terms of player protests is the fact that some players decided to continue their anthem protest during the anniversary of the September 11th attacks this year. While this wasn't necessarily in bad form from an objective standpoint, I can see why a large number of people who are not involved in the military, people who are not prejudiced, or both would have an issue with this, since September 11th is a day on which many people believe that we (by "we" I mean citizens of the United States) should stand in solidarity with the friends and family members of people whose lives were lost on that tragic day fifteen years ago. I personally think that the players should have put their protest "on hold" for that day and that day only given the significance of it, but that's beside the point.

The point is that this issue deserves to be talked about and dealt with, and if that involves some athletes deciding to take a knee during the national anthem, so be it. The athletes don't "hate America" or anything of that nature because they're using their platform to be a voice for those who can't speak out and for those who would be ignored no matter what they say. On the other side of the coin, I don't agree with people lashing out at police officers in general; there are unprejudiced men and women in the police force who put their lives on the line day in and day out and do their job properly. I feel bad for the good officers who have had to deal with the backlash generated by some of their number not living up to the basic ethical and professional standards of the occupation, and frankly, I think that police officers as a whole have become unjustly dehumanized by some people because of the atrocities that some of them have committed. However, that doesn't excuse those who have committed these acts for doing what they did. This conversation needs to continue, whether it is in in the political sphere, on the football field, or elsewhere, and hopefully this conversation will lead to a solution, whether in the form of litigation or through something entirely different.

 

[Somewhere_]

whites are killed by police at a higher rate than blacks, even in proportion to crime rates.

That being said, other countries' police forces kill significantly less people (adjusted for population), and something should be done to keep the minority of officers in line.

I believe from the information I have seen this was an outright act of murder, racism, and abuse of power.

Police officers dont deserve to be hated, but at the same time "Blue Lives Matter" is unsolicited as well.

 

[Hands]

whites are killed by police at a higher rate than blacks, even in proportion to crime rates.

That being said, other countries' police forces kill significantly less people (adjusted for population), and something should be done to keep the minority of officers in line.

I believe from the information I have seen this was an outright act of murder, racism, and abuse of power.

Police officers dont deserve to be hated, but at the same time "Blue Lives Matter" is unsolicited as well.

Police shouldn't be shooting any unarmed individuals, regardless of race.

 

[Somewhere_]

Police shouldn't be shooting any unarmed individuals, regardless of race.

Of course not, but I do challenge the notion of police shootings to be race-motivated in the aggregate. Individually, of course it occurs, but not to any notable extent.

 

[Hands]

Of course not, but I do challenge the notion of police shootings to be race-motivated in the aggregate. Individually, of course it occurs, but not to any notable extent.

I'd heavily disagree with this, and it isn't just the numbers, it's the aftermath. How many cops have gotten off scott free now?

 

[Somewhere_]

I'd heavily disagree with this, and it isn't just the numbers, it's the aftermath. How many cops have gotten off scott free now?

I dont know. Do you have a stat?

 

[Hands]

I dont know. Do you have a stat?

A stat on how many have gotten off free? No, I was genuinely raising the question. It's more than it should be though.

 

[Kanzler]

whites are killed by police at a higher rate than blacks, even in proportion to crime rates.

That being said, other countries' police forces kill significantly less people (adjusted for population), and something should be done to keep the minority of officers in line.

I believe from the information I have seen this was an outright act of murder, racism, and abuse of power.

Police officers dont deserve to be hated, but at the same time "Blue Lives Matter" is unsolicited as well.

What evidence do you have for the bold? Seems wonky.

 

[Somewhere_]

What evidence do you have for the bold? Seems wonky.

I was surprised too... Ill get the source later (just wanted to acknowledge Im not ignoring your quote).

 

[EC]

Well, he's right, as I saw a chart on Vox a while back with that statistic. However, white people aren't being shot at by the police because they are white. Most of these cases, like this one, the victims are being shot at because they are black.

That's why the "All Lives Matter" movement is a stupid response to "Black Lives Matter". Of course all lives matter. Tell the racist police officers that.

 

[Kanzler]

Well, he's right, as I saw a chart on Vox a while back with that statistic. However, white people aren't being shot at by the police because they are white. Most of these cases, like this one, the victims are being shot at because they are black.

That's why the "All Lives Matter" movement is a stupid response to "Black Lives Matter". Of course all lives matter. Tell the racist police officers that.

I think I saw the same Vox page, but that one only described a study which claimed that there was no racial bias in lethal interactions between police vs. whites and blacks. The study itself was a bit narrow in scope and gained its data from police forces that willingly provided it. I don't think it's as relevant as FBI data, however, which is national and clearly show that blacks are overrepresented in police shootings.

 

[Nah]

While I've never cared for how some people go on about how about basically every single white person in America is racist, this is ridiculous.

They came because his car stalled. His hands were up. And they shot him. Are you fucking kidding me. Police reform when?

 

[Her]

It's going to be even more disgusting when the officer most likely suffers little to no repercussions for his actions. Abhorrent person, abhorrent act, abhorrent system.

 

[_Dean_]

Why are police still trained through military tactics? Where is the de-escalation? Where's the ****ing pepper spray or tazers? In the case of Crutcher, which is the same case for (from my perspective) most African Americans murdered by police, there's not even an ounce of conviction for these kinds of tactics. There's a fundamentally flawed system in America that doesn't even require you to be white or a supremacist that doesn't exactly proclaim "black lives don't matter", but inherently does by painting the African American community at large as automatic perpetrateors based on nearly four decades of the war on drugs.

But in short, why the **** did you shoot a guy with his hands up???

 

[CoffeeDrink]

I've pointed folks towards FBI statistics time and again yet... also, being unarmed does not make you 'unarmed' if anyone really wanted to get technical.

2014 saw 660 personal weapon homicides :D FBI yet again.

On the note of this incident. Utterly tragic, however, I can not see the suspect when he was shot, nor was the video feed clear enough to tell if the window was down or if he moved from the vehicle.

I find it extremely hard to believe that three cops woke up and said "let's go kill us a ******". It's a nightmare, shootings. Paperwork, investigations, suspensions, counseling, psychiatrics, colonoscopies... okay, maybe not the last one but it sure feels that way sometimes.

What I am more concerned about is departmental procedure. Why was the suspect allowed to walk back to his vehicle? Why was he placing his hands on the vehicle; it could be just the CHP but interlocking fingers behind the head or back is proper, unless procedure changed. Or if this department uses completely different methods.

Why were there aerial units? If it's just me, but I heard 'code 303' somewhere in there (shots fired) well before the suspect was shot. Or maybe I imagined him saying 'code'...

Where is the dash cam? Were there body cams? There had to have been verbal commands, of course. Police tend to shout and yell for compliance before resorting to force.

Inconclusive. I need to know more. I need another angle. I need audio, I need the dash cam. The defense would rip the prosecution to shreds over lack of footage. I see the suspect fall from shots, but that is about it. I don't see the suspect before the aerial unit got there or while he was out of view on the passanger's side. I'm leery of falling into the Ferguson trap again even for a second.

Until I see a dash cam or a report proceeding the events that lead up to Mr. Suspect's death I can't decide. Right now, from what I can see is 50-50 split. He could have ignored commands, I have no audio. He could have reached, I have no visual. He could have complied fully, I have no audio. He could have complied completely, I have no visual. That's an issue for me. I want to believe both sides, but I admit I lean more with officers so I am a tad biased. But I don't think I'm one to wring his hands and place all doubt on the dead man. Where the hell is the dash cam?

Edit: okay. I found the dash cam. I still can't see shit. All the officers block the view, so nice going dipshits. I read conflicting reports of the suspect complying, not complying being argumentative... that has become all speculation at this point. More investigation is needed in that regard. However, I do note that a tazer was deployed before he was shot. Why in Sam hill and the great blue blazes?

So, still inconclusive on events up to and leading towards the conclusion, but not the Ned Flanders result. The suspect was indeed tapered before he was shot though, that I can't defend. She fucked up royally. Now, that isn't to say that Mr. Suspect was being totally compliant. He out weighs and out heights the officer in question and he was tapered. If he was being compliant he would not have needed to be tapered. I believe that. If he was however, being totally compliant, and was tapered anyway this is a problem that rests solely on the shoulders of this department and their failings to train their officers accordingly.

So, my new opinion is that the suspect was tapered, then shot. I do not know the rate of compliance, and I don't know what lead up to this shooting because all I see is the responding back up vehicle's dash cam. I have not found the first responder's dash cam video, so that still has play. Wrongful death, most likely. Compliant suspect? Up for debate still.

Police brutality epidemic? Hardly.

Edit: auto correct errors.

 

[Grey Wind]

whites are killed by police at a higher rate than blacks, even in proportion to crime rates.

MORE white people are killed by police, yes, but it's black people that are killed at a higher rate.