Chit-Chat: Welcome to the Strategies & Movesets forum for Sun & Moon!

[Anti]

you are describing the metagame in far too deterministic a manner. the aegislash/sableye paragraph is assuming way too much--adding aeg to the meta will definitely change it, and whether it helps or hurts stall would need to be seen. all of this stuff about "well aeg's presence makes a sab ban acceptable" is intensely hypothetical and is not hashed out nearly enough, like one giant non-sequitur. (why would an aeg drop give stall more "wiggle room" for stall to innovate, for example? i am completely unconvinced of this.) it's pretty difficult to predict the impact on the metagame that inviting such a centralizing force back into the meta would have.

the pivoting bit is more intriguing in that i think you're describing a real problem in the meta, except land-t isn't the only mon that shows this. lati@s combined is/are super common as well. keldeo and xy azumarill were less extreme versions of this. however, aegislash just adds another very potent threat to check--it's not exactly easy to switch into. i'm not convinced that it would alleviate team-building pressures when i found that aeg often exacerbated them back in the aeg meta. i'm not against a retest or anything (the vote was close for a reason) but the aeg metagame was not without its problems. and perhaps chief among them was aegislash itself.

 

[Nah]

It's certainly interesting what you wrote Amour, but I'm not understanding why you think that Mega Sableye should be suspected if Aegislash returns to OU.....

 

[KorpiklaaniVodka]

It's certainly interesting what you wrote Amour, but I'm not understanding why you think that Mega Sableye should be suspected if Aegislash returns to OU.....

Actually I wasn't the original poster, credits go to UltiMario from Smogon. I just posted it because I completely agree with what he said.

 

[Polar Spectrum]

PU? FU?

How about every pokemon just has their own tier

And regardless of wether or not those 'at the time very reasonable bans we all agreed were necessary' are reversed - when they pass their decision down, it will be accepted and echoed. I have no doubt.

I personally don't want to see Genesects in common matches because smogon says it's on par with their ou tier pokemon though. No thank you.

 

[Dark Azelf]

Mega Sable is horrendously overated. You dont even need to use Fairies to beat it. :\ As for msable stall, sometimes i find myself thinking that id sooner run other pokemon rather than it, especially when you take into account stuff that stall struggles with (sub mind keld, gardy etc) and covering these pokemon instead of running msable.

As for Aegislash, something that warps the metagame around it sometimes isnt a bad thing, Snorlax did this in GSC for example, but i dont get what has changed since Aegis ban? Why would it now be acceptable in OU? Landorus-Ts high usage doesnt mean shit especially when Aegislash can still just spam Shadow Ball and everything dies basically and if you're using stuff like lando to check it, you're gonna have a bad time. Aegislash DOES help tremendously with issues for stall however. The big 3 breakers especially it beats MHera, MGardy and MMedicham/Gallade. It gave stall wiggle room because its basically an offensive pokemon that walls a shit tonne. It hurts offense and can cripple foe stall teams so helps in alot of match ups. But i still dont see what beats it and checks it consistently without getting annihilated by the unpredictability of its sets and its sheer power.

Genesect. Yeah no. Run Heatran or lose, seems legit. :\

 

[Anti]

nah d_a, was referring to this:

If Aegis were to drop, I'd fully support a suspect test for Sableye, since now stall would have the wiggle room to play around with many different metas and team building styles, rather than being stuck in a place where they're just building around Sableye. Aegis not only is a strong asset for stall teams that would prevent the forced usage of Sableye on stall, but its presence in the meta pushes out threats that Stall currently has to worry about, many of which are Sableye checks. With Aegis in the meta I'm very confident that Sabeye's presence would no longer be needed, and if Aegis and Sable were swapped out we'd end with stall having less restrictive teambuilding while building for and against stall.

which is a load of bs. it's not like stall is locked into a certain team and then aeg comes along and suddenly the colors of the rainbow open up. so no, it doesn't let stall innovate, at least not the way this poster is talking about. (or at least more reasoning is needed to make that case, but i am wholly unconvinced.)

just for funsies tho, medicham and heracross are both uu in usage, and gallade isn't breaking clefable or sableye any time soon. they're not much of a metagame presence *without* aegislash (nor does aeg help with other problem mons for stall like manaphy and landorus).

there's nothing aegislash (or sableye or freaking giratina) can do to cover stall's biggest weakness: it's always going to be passive and easy to counter-team with various breakers. too many top threats to cover now. (just look at stalls without slowbro or quag - huge huge zardx problems. just to give one example.)

i think you're right about sableye though. its ability to control the hazard game is especially overrated - if you really wanna set rox, you can do it, m sableye or not (usually via team building with a rox clef or lum chomp etc).

 

[Nah]

Is it normal or something for people to forfeit within 3 turns on the Smogon Doubles ladder or something? Because I've been doing some of that today and I think I've only had one or two battles where it actually went until one of us had no pokes left.....

 

[skyburial]

Has anyone else registered for Generation Showdown yet? Registration opened last night :3

I can't wait to debut my Ubers team at this thing.

 

[destinedjagold]

I registered for the Generation Showdown. ^^
I'm going with my usual ORAS team...which isn't built for double battles. >.>

 

[skyburial]

Didn't realize it was Doubles >_<

This is gonna be rough. There goes my dream of using Shuckle in the tourney. Oh well, no such thing as a wasted Pokemon.

 

[Zeffy]

So, I am guessing Generation Showdown is another one of those tournament type things akin to the Battle of Hoenn?

 

[skyburial]

So, I am guessing Generation Showdown is another one of those tournament type things akin to the Battle of Hoenn?

It's like that, but they're allowing the use of up to 2 previously banned legends exempting mythicals and Deoxys.

 

[Polar Spectrum]

Why is this the Anita Sarkeesian DCC right now lol. And b'aw Zeffy Hamtaro


Generation Showdown is basically all the big bad legends tossing blows at one another in doubles 4v4 matches though; pretty entertaining.

My bet is on Mewtwo and Xerneas reigning. By the way, happy birthday to mewtwo as of February 6th.

 

[skyburial]

Yeah I've been battling some other folks who are practicing for the showdown (the teams are usually obvious) and the most common combo is Power Herb Xerneas and Primal Groudon.

I'm gonna start leading with Dialga in those battles.

 

[Polar Spectrum]

Leading with Dialga? But what's your answer to dat Precipice Blades? The fact that it hits both in doubles is pretty brutal :c

No lie though, I squashed a nub using Mega Ray, Primal Groudon, Metagross, and Deoxys with a team of Dunsparce, Aromatisse, Jellicent and Gardevoir though. Kid was baaaaaad

 

[Nah]

Dialga's not even a terribly good answer to GeoXern tbh.

No lie though, I squashed a nub using Mega Ray, Primal Groudon, Metagross, and Deoxys with a team of Dunsparce, Aromatisse, Jellicent and Gardevoir though. Kid was baaaaaad

Those are always fun. Kids are like "mah mega ray's gunna rek everybody online!"

.....and then it has a shit nature, isn't EV trained, and has a terrible moveset and then you destroy it lol

 

[skyburial]

Leading with Dialga? But what's your answer to dat Precipice Blades? The fact that it hits both in doubles is pretty brutal :c

If he goes for Precipice Blades, Lugia gets off a free Tailwind, setting up Bandorus-T for a revenge kill. Life Orb Dialga takes out and outspeeds a Geomancy Xerneas and outspeeds all but 1 common build for Groudon, which it ties, and I'm willing to take that gamble.

I practiced this last night, it does the job.

Those are always fun. Kids are like "mah mega ray's gunna rek everybody online!"

.....and then it has a shit nature, isn't EV trained, and has a terrible moveset and then you destroy it lol

I haven't been able to test my team against a decent Mega Ray because of this, which has been a bummer.

 

[Pendraflare]

You know, before Mega Rayquaza was banned from ubers (read: in November just after ORAS were released), some people said that it had the potential to work even in the hands of inexperienced players.

But with Geomancy Xerneas, if it's faster than Dialga (which it will be if it's +Speed, unless the latter is scarfed), it can get in the Power Herb boost and will likely not be OHKO'ed, even if Dialga has Flash Cannon.

 

[Polar Spectrum]

Oh yeah - mega ray is mad crazy powerful. But I will always assert that no matter what tears you swim in or pokemon you use, there is no cure for just being bad (or stupid). Plus, he got Trick Room'd. So all those nice big base speed stats went out the window for rayquaza and deoxys.

Another thing... this kid seriously activated Rayquaza's mega evolution, which turned on Delta Stream - CANCELING desolate land - when there was a water type on the field.

Few things in my recent pokemon experiences have been as pleasant as watching a primal groudon get OHKO'd by a Jellicent with hydro pump.

 

[skyburial]

Oh yeah - mega ray is mad crazy powerful. But I will always assert that no matter what tears you swim in or pokemon you use, there is no cure for just being bad (or stupid). Plus, he got Trick Room'd. So all those nice big base speed stats went out the window for rayquaza and deoxys.

Another thing... this kid seriously activated Rayquaza's mega evolution, which turned on Delta Stream - CANCELING desolate land - when there was a water type on the field.

Few things in my recent pokemon experiences have been as pleasant as watching a primal groudon get OHKO'd by a Jellicent with hydro pump.

I know I've said it before, but telltale sign of a n00b - leaving Deoxys in its base forme.