• Our software update is now concluded. You will need to reset your password to log in. In order to do this, you will have to click "Log in" in the top right corner and then "Forgot your password?".
  • Welcome to PokéCommunity! Register now and join one of the best fan communities on the 'net to talk Pokémon and more! We are not affiliated with The Pokémon Company or Nintendo.

Chit-Chat: Welcome to the Strategies & Movesets forum for Sun & Moon!

Status
Not open for further replies.

Nah

  • 15,974
    Posts
    10
    Years
    • Age 31
    • she/her, they/them
    • Seen yesterday
    ^Yes plz keep Mega Pinsir out of UU I don't want that in there.

    Terrakion though....
     

    Detox

    Guest
  • 0
    Posts
    Glad to see that Jirachi has risen to OU, I was looking to get more into UU and that was one of the few things I was not looking forward to facing. Most of these moves were pretty obvious though, so I'm not really surprised.
     

    Polar Spectrum

    I'm still here; watching. Waiting.
  • 1,663
    Posts
    9
    Years
    Salamence no longer OU - that's rough buddy.

    Wait what is PU? "Please Use"? Is it just a play on saying it stinks? Also -
    always knew Greninja was what caused them to be downstairs in UU but now that he's out of the way those two can start shining again.

    Ah hah, hahah - because, because they're stars- shining like, because... ahhhhhhah. I don't know if this was intentional or not; but it gave me a laugh.
     

    Nah

  • 15,974
    Posts
    10
    Years
    • Age 31
    • she/her, they/them
    • Seen yesterday
    Does anyone even know what PU stands for? Cuz I've never heard a definite answer.
     

    PlatinumDude

    Nyeh?
  • 12,964
    Posts
    13
    Years
    Salamence no longer OU - that's rough buddy.

    Wait what is PU? "Please Use"? Is it just a play on saying it stinks? Also -


    Ah hah, hahah - because, because they're stars- shining like, because... ahhhhhhah. I don't know if this was intentional or not; but it gave me a laugh.

    Does anyone even know what PU stands for? Cuz I've never heard a definite answer.

    You've heard of the real-world phrase, "P.U." right? This means that something stinks.

    In competitive terms, this is a pun for the Pokemon who are outclassed even in NU.
     

    Nah

  • 15,974
    Posts
    10
    Years
    • Age 31
    • she/her, they/them
    • Seen yesterday
    You've heard of the real-world phrase, "P.U." right? This means that something stinks.

    In competitive terms, this is a pun for the Pokemon who are outclassed even in NU.
    No way really?! I didn't think that that would actually be it. Thought it would be an actual pair of words like all the other tiers.....
     

    Polar Spectrum

    I'm still here; watching. Waiting.
  • 1,663
    Posts
    9
    Years
    You've heard of the real-world phrase, "P.U." right? This means that something stinks.

    In competitive terms, this is a pun for the Pokemon who are outclassed even in NU.

    No way really?! I didn't think that that would actually be it. Thought it would be an actual pair of words like all the other tiers.....


    Awh are you serious??!! It really stands for "Pee-yew"?! As in "this stuff stinks"????


    xD

    Respect smogon, respect. That's how you do it. Do more of that. I would've also believed "Please use" really. Because you'd have to ask to get them to use those pokemon, y'know?
     
  • 6,266
    Posts
    10
    Years
    So Salamence got the kick down to UU or something? Because while the Mega Evolution is not going to be returning to OU anytime soon, if that normal form is getting the kick down then something must be up.
     
  • 50,218
    Posts
    13
    Years
    So Salamence got the kick down to UU or something? Because while the Mega Evolution is not going to be returning to OU anytime soon, if that normal form is getting the kick down then something must be up.

    The reason why regular Salamence isn't good in OU is mainly due to Fairy-types running over the place, and it has little in the way to counter them aside from the inaccurate Iron Tail. And the Mega is still going to be in Ubers for now as well.
     

    skyburial

    Orca Hype
  • 892
    Posts
    9
    Years
    So yeah, funny story about PU, it wasn't recognized as an official tier by Smogon until very recently but it was growing so popular within the community that they had to. Started out as "The Pokemon of the NU tier that are NU within NU", and now that PU is official, there's a new tier called FU (not making this up) that follows the bread crumb trail of more Pokemon within PU that are never used in PU.

    NU inception, guys.
     

    KorpiklaaniVodka

    KID BUU PAWAA
  • 3,318
    Posts
    10
    Years
    Terrakion is UU.
    Aegislash and Genesect might be back in OU since Smogon is discussing a retest for both.

    Wow.

    warning mence rant
    Spoiler:
     
    Last edited:
  • 1,476
    Posts
    12
    Years
    • Seen Mar 13, 2023
    pinsir dropped to uu, shame :( aegislash and genesect retest wut, rly am outdated omfg. why would you retest them anyway, they'll just fuck up more shit imo.

    tbh i want goth gone or just ban shadow tag or something, pls like if you agree 8( #fukshadowtag
     
    Last edited:
  • 6,266
    Posts
    10
    Years
    Unlike Wobbuffet, Gothitelle isn't as jarring to see with Shadow Tag because that doesn't have Mirror Coat and Counter, or Encore for that matter. But it has different stuff to do.

    But if Aegislash gets unbanned, I don't know.
     

    Detox

    Guest
  • 0
    Posts
    Didn't Genesect barely get the amount of votes required to recieve a ban last time around? I'm indifferent on Aegialsh. I wouldn't complain if it stayed in Ubers or dropped to OU.
     
  • 6,266
    Posts
    10
    Years
    Genesect i'd understand why it'd stay banned (good stats all-around, STAB U-turn, has potential to get an extra boost upon switching in, only one weakness...), but Aegislash has had a predictable playing style of King's Shield and then attack, although a very abusive one. It's not original.
     

    skyburial

    Orca Hype
  • 892
    Posts
    9
    Years
    BTW guys, I read an update late last night, and in accordance with our wishes, Pinsirite was quick banned, and in addition, Salamence, Heracross, and Terrakion are being suspect tested.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Nah
  • 50,218
    Posts
    13
    Years
    BTW guys, I read an update late last night, and in accordance with our wishes, Pinsirite was quick banned, and in addition, Salamence, Heracross, and Terrakion are being suspect tested.

    I have a feeling they'll end up in BL, because they'll threaten UU a lot.
     

    KorpiklaaniVodka

    KID BUU PAWAA
  • 3,318
    Posts
    10
    Years
    Words can't describe how much I want Aegi back. And Genesect needs to return as well. I'll just leave this here (credits to UltiMario from Smogon):

    I'd like to see more discussion on the 2 closest suspects in Smogon's history: Aegislash and Genesect.

    I'd like to first note Genesect because it feels like if something in Ubers is going to drop, it's going to be Gene. It used to be Greninja's big brother when it was around in early XY, but now Gren way surpassed it in terms of power and versatility, and while it was easily Ubers, it wasn't absolutely meta breaking like most Ubers (ex Mence). Especially with the light power creep introduced by ORAS and seeing how the ORAS meta's capability to at least somewhat handle a mon that was basically LO and Scarf Gene with better coverage rolled up into 1 set, I really don't see Gene's power, versatility, or access to Download being as defining as they were in XY. Especially not on only base 99 Spe.

    Aegis on the other hand is sitting on a slightly higher pedestal, unlike Gene it has the full ability to warp the metagame around it, being the deciding factor on what is viable and what is not. However, in Aegis' case... that's a good thing.

    This is where we start digging deeper. There is one really notable problem right now: Lando-T. It's usage has far surpassed anything that any OU meta has ever seen, its prevalence is so all-encompassing that at their highest usage when they were together in a metagame, it currently has more usage than the combined usage of both Aegislash and Genesect. Why is this happening? The answer is pretty obvious: there simply aren't other good pivots in the tier. If you need glue, it's Lando-T. It's the only thing left that can answer the sheer volume of threats ORAS has, and it effectively prevents many things from tearing the tier apart. This is a serious problem. Much larger than MGross, much larger than Sableye, much larger than Shadow Tag. The game is currently stuck in a fixated state where if you're not running stall, you're nearly forced to run Lando-T because you don't have other options. The threats are too large in number and are too strong in XY. This is a problem that the game's been having since Gen 5, the questions too far outnumber the answers, and the threats are much stronger than the Pokemon used to check them. This causes a game heavily biased by team match-ups, where your opponent could be carrying something you simply do not have the room to check, causing a near instant loss. Lando-T is used on so many teams because it shrinks the number of instant-loss mons by an incredibly large number. It is the last good pivot left in the game.

    This is where we go back to Gene and Aegis. These mons are threats in their own right, they both are versatile, hit like a truck, and have overall fantastic stat allocation and typing. This is how they got in Ubers, but maybe we should've looked deeper into the meta shifts before we did this. Genesect's ban might've caused the worst meta in Smogon's history, it took multiple bans that happened over the course of months to finally put the game into a state where HO teams weren't ruining the game, and this fault game from the fact Gene was the glue that prevented all that from happening. Gene no longer has this power, as the types of teams it negated are no longer viable due to these bans, but it still is a strong asset to checking offensive threats in the meta. Aegis also dictated the game, making many otherwise OU-capable mons get stuck into BL or UU because they simply can't cope with it. Both these held the game in a state where dozens of Pokemon were locked away, unviable as threats because these Pokemon existed. They were the perfect pivots. They did what Lando-T is doing now, but also doubled as very good mons on their own. Ultimately, this is what the game needs. We currently are stuck in a meta where it is no longer possible to build non-stall teams that that sufficiently check the metagame (and it's only possible for stall to do that because of M-Sable), and this is where we need to look at suspects not in the perspective of their individual ability, but the effect they have on the game. Many people wanted to ban Aegis initially because it would bring more versatility into the game, but I believe after seeing how the Gen 6 meta has progressed it's pretty clear that versatility isn't always a good thing. Sometimes we need these incredibly strong pivots to prevent many threats from being viable in OU, which allows a meta that is less dictated on team match-up and more on teambuilding and player skill. I feel like both these mons would help weaken the power of top threats such as Mgross while not being completely overbearing in themselves.


    As a final note, I'd like to discuss MSableye in regards to the potential of these mons dropping. As is stands, with Sable banned, stall is done. We will actually be left with 0 playstyles left in the game where the game comes down to mostly player skill rather than team match-up, since no other playstyles are currently capable of avoiding bad match-ups. Even Goth doesn't dictate an instant loss for stall due to the strength of MSable stall teams. I think this change is incredibly bad for the game if not complimented with something else, and that something else is Aegislash. If Aegis were to drop, I'd fully support a suspect test for Sableye, since now stall would have the wiggle room to play around with many different metas and team building styles, rather than being stuck in a place where they're just building around Sableye. Aegis not only is a strong asset for stall teams that would prevent the forced usage of Sableye on stall, but its presence in the meta pushes out threats that Stall currently has to worry about, many of which are Sableye checks. With Aegis in the meta I'm very confident that Sabeye's presence would no longer be needed, and if Aegis and Sable were swapped out we'd end with stall having less restrictive teambuilding while building for and against stall.


    tl;dr- Aegis and Gene have a positive effect on the game because they encourage a game based on teambuilding and player skill rather than team match-ups. We should suspect test to drop them. Sableye as it currently stands is fine, but if Aegis drops it needs a test.
     
    Last edited:
    Status
    Not open for further replies.
    Back
    Top