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Chit-Chat: Welcome to the Strategies & Movesets forum for Sun & Moon!

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WolfMirage said:
Okay that's easier to understand, the guides that were here on PC really aren't made for beginners to understand. Okay so if I'm gonna use talonflame, I need fast and heavy hiting pokes right or wrong
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really depends, talonflame has a multitude of sets which can be really offensive and hard hitting (swords dance/choice band) or more supportive (will-o-wisp). using talonflame will require hazard removal, and you have that covered so ya, just pair talonflame up with stuff that synergize/support it well and form a core or something or just use it as a sweeper/revenge killer. read up more on ou here (click me im a link)

skyburial said:
Shuckle is awesome, don't let anyone tell you otherwise. As far as support move pools go it's got a hard one to beat. I like running Sticky Web, Stealth Rock, Encore and an attack move on mine (keeps Taunt from ruining its day). It should do pretty well with Starmie too, or a Defog user like Scizor if you opt out of Rapid Spin.

Also, entry hazards are pretty pivotal in singles, but if you focus on them too much, like anything else in the meta, your moves become predictable and your team takes some serious hits. You can do well in singles with or without entry hazards, it's a playstyle thing. You should definitely try out Shuckle though (Y)
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like i said, there are much better stealth rockers in ou. the only reason to use shuckle is to sticky web for idk sticky web offense? lol, dont get me wrong shuckle is a cool pokemon, it's just that in ou it's kinda meh even for a niche mon.

anyway ya, you can win a battle without hazards to support your team, but hazards have gotten really important and most successful teams use hazards too (unless u want to be super hipster and run something either super shit or just gimmicky but beats the ladder anyway). shuckle is an ok niche pokemon, that's all, but if you really want to use it then meh, can't force you to use chomp or any other pokemon right?

#1amthoughts

edit: np wolfmirage n_n we're always ready to lend a helping hand, as long as you're willing to learn
 
Yep I have much to learn and okay so talonflame and shuckle bad idea.

As I kinda like the first set smogon as for talonflame and that was the set I was gonna use
 
Shuckle @ Mental herb
248 Hp / 252 Def / 8 Sp. Def
Bold / Impish / Relaxed Nature
Trait: Sturdy
- Stealth Rock
- Sticky Web
- Encore
- Infestation / Toxic / Knock Off

If you're gonna use it make 100% sure you have answers to Bisharp (Defiant) and Serperior (Contrary) or they will crush your team because Sticky Web helps them.

Anyway sticky web offense usually packs slow powerful attackers like Mega Heracross and Bisharp to benefit from foe defog (Defiant). Not sure if its still viable but yolo.
 
You're welcome wolfmirage! If you want to battle some time on ORAS or X/Y, hit me up with your friend code.

revere said:
like i said, there are much better stealth rockers in ou. the only reason to use shuckle is to sticky web for idk sticky web offense? lol, dont get me wrong shuckle is a cool pokemon, it's just that in ou it's kinda meh even for a niche mon.

anyway ya, you can win a battle without hazards to support your team, but hazards have gotten really important and most successful teams use hazards too (unless u want to be super hipster and run something either super muk or just gimmicky but beats the ladder anyway). shuckle is an ok niche pokemon, that's all, but if you really want to use it then meh, can't force you to use chomp or any other pokemon right?

#1amthoughts
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It's definitely challenging and awkward to use Shuckle, and I agree that there are easier and more versatile hazard setters in OU. Also, it would probably take a beginner many frustrating losses to master such a technical Pokemon (you really have to be on top of your prediction game for it to be effective). I've had some good times with it, but I enjoy making gimmicks work.

Dark Azelf said:
Swords Dance/protect/HJK/Flare Blitz

+2 252+ Atk Mega Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Salamence: 216-255 (65.2 - 77%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Mega Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 164-193 (40.8 - 48.1%) -- 67.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Mega Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 179-211 (60.2 - 71%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Mega Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 165-195 (55.5 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Mega Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Garchomp: 204-240 (48.5 - 57.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252+ Atk Mega Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Garchomp: 405-477 (96.4 - 113.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Mega Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 178-211 (44 - 52.2%) -- 77.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+2 252+ Atk Mega Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 357-420 (88.3 - 103.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

-1 252+ Atk Mega Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 129-153 (33.7 - 40%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery means it can switch in once with SR up and then its done if Blaze sds later in the match.

None of these checks and counters are able to switch in with like ANY prior damage, plus they are all stupidly easy to wear down.
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K. So first off, I really respect your opinion and you're the most respected dude here, probably years and years my senior in competitive battling. But here's my case. Btdubs I run my calcs at level 50.

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Blaziken: 320-378 (105.9 - 125.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(320, 324, 326, 330, 336, 338, 342, 344, 350, 354, 356, 360, 366, 368, 372, 378)

0+ Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Blaziken: 320-378 (105.9 - 125.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(320, 324, 326, 330, 336, 338, 342, 344, 350, 354, 356, 360, 366, 368, 372, 378)




I'd pursue that the Mega/Blaziken strategy is super predictable. Protect on the first turn to pick up a Speed Boost, fire off a super effective move if possible and SD otherwise. This is why they're easy to kill. I'm not saying that if you let a Blaziken set up, that it's easy to hard counter (although it can fall to its own HJK if you can bait that out and switch in a Ghost), but it is simple enough to revenge kill.

What you've said about Talonflame assumes that an opponent is going to hard switch into it while rocks are up. I don't know of anyone who Talonflames in such a fashion. How about getting a slow Volt Switch from a defensive Rotom?

I'll take your word on Mega Luc. Once again, I just brought it up because it doesn't see much use in formats where it is legal, so I contest that it over-centralizes the meta in spite of its potential.
 
When I look at the link revere left I went and peeked at the team build shop link and I thought this one looked fun, is this a good team or bad

Rated-Ruby (Scizor) @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 224 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Swords Dance
- Superpower
- Bug Bite

Falcon....WING! (Talonflame) (M) @ Sharp Beak
Ability: Gale Wings
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 88 HP / 252 Atk / 168 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Roost

Eon (Latios) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 29 HP / 0 Atk
- Psyshock
- Draco Meteor
- Roost
- Defog

Slowbro @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Grass Knot
- Slack Off
- Thunder Wave

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Flamethrower
- Soft-Boiled
- Stealth Rock

Kyurem-Black @ Assault Vest
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 120 HP / 96 Atk / 228 SpD / 64 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Fusion Bolt
- Iron Head
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
 
WolfMirage said:
When I look at the link revere left I went and peeked at the team build shop link and I thought this one looked fun, is this a good team or bad

Rated-Ruby (Scizor) @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 224 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Swords Dance
- Superpower
- Bug Bite

Falcon....WING! (Talonflame) (M) @ Sharp Beak
Ability: Gale Wings
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 88 HP / 252 Atk / 168 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Roost

Eon (Latios) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 29 HP / 0 Atk
- Psyshock
- Draco Meteor
- Roost
- Defog

Slowbro @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Grass Knot
- Slack Off
- Thunder Wave

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Flamethrower
- Soft-Boiled
- Stealth Rock

Kyurem-Black @ Assault Vest
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 120 HP / 96 Atk / 228 SpD / 64 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Fusion Bolt
- Iron Head
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
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IMO, Scizor should be Adamant, as its Speed issues are compensated for with Bullet Punch. Just use max Attack/max Speed.

Again, use max Attack/max Speed on Talonflame. The leftover 22 HP points don't let Talonflame do anything significant.

Drop either Roost or Defog for a coverage option on Latios, preferably the former. Surf can hit Heatran, Diancie and Therian Landorus, Hidden Power (Fire) hits Ferrothorn and Scizor and Earthquake hits Heatran harder.

Grass Knot doesn't let Slowbro do anything notable apart from hitting Mega Swampert. Psyshock hits Keldeo harder, and Azumarill still laughs at Grass Knot. Psyshock (secondary STAB that muscles past special walls), Foul Play (for physical attackers), Fire Blast (for Ferrothorn, Skarmory and Scizor) or Ice Beam (for Grass and Dragon Pokemon on the switch) are preferred.

Black Kyurem isn't the best Assault Vest user out there. Sure, it has some good special resistances, but its physical weaknesses still hurt:
-Ice Beam
-Fusion Bolt
-Earth Power
-Roost/Outrage/Hidden Power (Fire)
Nature: Rash/Naive
EVs: 56 Atk/252 SAtk/200 Spe
Item: Life Orb

or
-Dragon Claw
-Ice Beam
-Fusion Bolt
-Iron Head/Outrage/Roost/Hidden Power (Fire)
Nature: Naughty/Naive
EVs: 252 Atk/56 SAtk/200 Spe
Item: Life Orb

or
-Substitute
-Ice Beam
-Fusion Bolt/Roost
-Earth Power/Roost/Hidden Power (Fire)
Nature: Naive/Rash
EVs: 56 HP/252 SAtk/200 Spe
Item: Leftovers

or
-Outrage
-Ice Beam
-Fusion Bolt
-Dragon Claw/Iron Head
Nature: Naive/Naughty
EVs: 252 Atk/36 SAtk/224 Spe
Item: Choice Scarf
 
this seems like a good team to use if u just want a feel of the game, took it from smogon.
Spoiler:
 
WolfMirage said:
When I look at the link revere left I went and peeked at the team build shop link and I thought this one looked fun, is this a good team or bad
Click to expand...
You're relying quite a bit on Mega Scizor to check Gengar and Bisharp, and it'll get worn down quickly. Consider a bulkier Talon to help with the former:

Talonflame @ Leftovers
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Taunt

Talon also checks Mega Charizard Y, which will be handy if you drop Roost on Latios. Maybe fit in Choice Specs Keldeo or Terrakion over Kyurem-Black to help with Bisharp and fill the wallbreaker role. Terrakion weakens a lot of Scizor's checks like Landorus-Therian and Skarmory, but Keldeo is really reliable.

Could test U-turn > Bug Bite out on Scizor and see how that works for giving free switch-ins to Keldeo or Terrakion.

Also you're better off making a new thread for your team rather than asking here.

edit: I just realized you're using a team from Smogon. x) Well I'll leave this here anyway.
 
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Just a random idea i had, but I was thinking of maybe using a good baton pass poke, to like bulk up or something and baton into talonflame, so that way talonflame is all ready to start sweeping as soon it gets in
 
WolfMirage said:
Just a random idea i had, but I was thinking of maybe using a good baton pass poke, to like bulk up or something and baton into talonflame, so that way talonflame is all ready to start sweeping as soon it gets in
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Maybe SD + BPass Scizor? I think your current Scizor moveset is better for your team though, because it's your primary sweeper.

Zekrom said:
Talonflame's perfectly of setting up Swords Dance or Bulk Up on it's own though, so you'd probably wanna Baton Pass boosts to something else.
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It's still good support nonetheless. NP + BP Celebi and CM Keldeo is fun to use, for example.
 
Just an idea, but I got some good advice from a some users on team building and still have much to learn myself, but I had a thought what if some some experienced battlers got together and did some thing like on smogon, where a person is kinda if mentored in team building an such for a few days.
 
^ I think BTB actually had something like that a while ago, didn't they? Mentoring and whatnot - if I'm not mistaken they still might do it if there's interest.

You could always just ask someone nicely to train with 'em too :P
 
WolfMirage said:
Just an idea, but I got some good advice from a some users on team building and still have much to learn myself, but I had a thought what if some some experienced battlers got together and did some thing like on smogon, where a person is kinda if mentored in team building an such for a few days.
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you could try this - https://www.pokecommunity.com/threads/341900

or u could always just approach anyone for help. a mentoring program has been brought up before but not enough interest and blabla
 
What Zeffy said. We don't have enough experienced battlers that would be willing to tutor beginners. The PCL was made in response to that. Instead of having dedicated tutors, the community helps each other out in any way they can. PCL introduces more competition in the community as well, which results in better battlers. That could possibly mean a tutor program later down the road for those who dislike the clan setup.

It's also worth noting that Smogon would probably have a superior tutor program no matter what we do. (Not saying that we can't give tutoring another go in the future.)
 
WolfMirage said:
Just a random idea i had, but I was thinking of maybe using a good baton pass poke, to like bulk up or something and baton into talonflame, so that way talonflame is all ready to start sweeping as soon it gets in
Click to expand...

Try SmashPass Gorebyss (with White Herb) + Mega Blastoise and get something like Unaware Clefable to act as your secondary win condition. I'd use Water Pulse/Ice Beam/Aura Sphere/Hidden Power Grass to get excellent coverage. Plus Blastoise is hard to revenge kill due to its excellent mixed bulk and resistances to Ice Shard and Bullet Punch.

It seems that this combo is weak to Thundurus (and other electric-types), so I guess you can use Quagsire + Clefable (which ensures your opponent can't boost to put pressure on your attempts to BP), and Quag is also immune to Volt Switch. Watch out for Grass Knot Thundurus though!!!!! (and Rotom-W can be a pain in the ass as well...)
 
So what's the first step in building a competivite team, like dose it begin with going over the current meta game threats or what style u want to play(as in hyper offense, balance and ect.)
 
No expert in team building be I; but I'd wager first comes the type of team you want to build. Then comes a 'core' to use the cool kids lingo, then you pick mons that work well with it and serve to achieve dat win in cohesion with it, then comes picking specific mons and builds to deal with what would otherwise trouble your team.


Or you could do what I do and just train everything you like and throw teams together from a big ass grab bag of pokemon. That's typically frowned upon based on how competitive you aim to be though. So yeh.
 
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