[Life] LGBTQ+ Alliance (◕‿◕)♡

[Aisling]

Username: Aisling
Pronouns: she/her
Gender: transgirl
Romantic orientation: panromantic, but considering that physical attraction plays a major role in keeping a relationship healthy, male-oriented bodies are at a major disadvantage here
Sexual orientation: gay
Relationship status: single

Heya! Hope to get along with you all!

As for the bill, that's kind of hard. Outside of the extreme end, guys and girls athletic performance isn't that far apart, and estrogen does make you weaker, and testosterone does make you stronger. But allowing it opens a lot more venues of abuse. Exclusion definitely doesn't feel good, but I'm not sure people hounding you because you were amab and call you a cheater for a potential biological advantage doesn't really make it worth it. Dunno.

 

[Eleanor]

So... I'm not sure if it's because I've started being outside again (thank you, university labs) but I've been having a few doubts about my own gender questioning and I thought that this seemed like a good place to voice them! Again though, we're talking about doubts... therefore, topics that might be worth avoiding :/

I'll put my question in a spoiler!

Spoiler:

So the question is... just how much do you think that your gender and your views on gender were affected by your upbringing and the way you were raised? I guess this is more of a question for trans and enby people actually, because... well, I have to assume this is a doubt that they may have also gone through when they were questioning themselves!
To make a better example... all my thoughts of being more girly have always been tainted by the thought of "how do I even know how that's like". And especially when other girls talk about their own experiences (in one situation I've also heard a friend complain for getting catcalled), how do I know I can even relate to them? I guess the same can go the other way around for boys, or even apply to non binary people (agender and fluid, etc.)

I probably worded it terribly but I've been meaning to ask this here for a while, never found the occasion to, and... as you can see I'm just winging it by now. Thank you all for the help <3

 

[moon]

Sorry for having been entirely absent for the longest time!
So many new members :3 nice to see. Hi!

@ Loomie's question, I don't think my upbringing affected me super much tbh. Well, I can't know, can I? But I think I've always been who I am, just not found words to describe my state of being as well until now. So I just defaulted to what people had assumed me to be, my family etc. Aside from making me also default to seeking out hetero romances, I'd like to think I haven't been forced into anything by my environment. Just auto-categorized, but that's okay to opt-out of. Well. Not entirely, but somewhat.

 

[Corrin]

Pretty sure I would have been kicked out if I even came out as a lesbian, so any thoughts I had about gender were quickly cast aside.

So I spent a long time in the closet, trying not to think about it. Only when I became an adult did I start to think again, but even then I was told I don't know what I'm talking about and that if I just got "fucked" by a man I'd like it.

I'm still not out about my gender and I've had to keep quiet about my sexuality.

 

[punishedfelix]

Username: punishedfelix
Pronouns: they
Gender: I am FTM and nonbinary but I don't really categorize my gender

I didn't fill in the relationship tags because I don't feel comfortable about that. I have a partner but he's off site.

I'm going to meander a little with this post so pardon me. I'm not responding to anyone in this thread specifically with this post so please don't be confused, I'm just writing about my feelings personally.

I've been transitioning for 5 years now. It honestly is crazy looking back thinking about that. I'm really glad I transitioned because while shaving is annoying I like my new body and the medication really helped. I think in my case it had a lot to do with my brain chemistry or something, it really felt like it. I try to help people who recently come out feel more comfortable and to not "egg" them on, let them come at their own pace and talk about their feelings. A lot of nonbinary people find expression through this.

I am frustrated by how many people think that nonbinary is just being a girl. Outside of my breasts I think if someone saw me in public normally they wouldn't assume I was a woman if they saw my face. For me, nonbinary means distancing oneself from identification entirely by using the term "nonbinary" as a signifier of nothingness - its the last step from the stripping of gender entirely. Having breasts is frustrating, but I've come more to terms with them - they represent an active defiance of expectation - expectation of men being cis, expectation of transmen forced into another bodily cage.

Do transmen really escape the cage of femininity when they are forced directly into one of toxic masculinity through these social forces? In these hostile expectations, transmen are expected to be men without manhood, causing them to double down on compensation. Many transmen I've encountered as a result become bitter, toxic and cruel as a result. Celebrities as well, many of us know about a certain infamous famous and toxic transman. We are pressured so much to change our bodies to accomplish an image that had nothing to do with us - regardless of whether we want it or not - for this very reason, otherwise we are not "real men". And for what? To find we will still never be accepted as "real men"! And does a "real man" even exist?

I'm not saying that transmen are not legitimate, rather - the struggles so many FTMs were forced through growing up - body image, control over their dress, forced occupation and obedience - are just replicated in the faux image of maleness that so few people take seriously anyways, and in the process, we shred ourselves. We are forced into this empty image when trying to merely follow what we think is right for ourselves - what direction is there to go?

I think something that I want to talk about is my struggle with gender/sexual expression with disability. I sustained a head injury in 2019 that caused changes in my personality and the emergence of many problems. While I still feel very comfortable transitioning, a result of this was a newfound experience with my gender where I oscillate to a femininity, but without truly becoming a woman again. I think the best way to express it is through the image of an FTM drag queen, the subversion occurs twice over, blurring femininity and lifting it off from the constraints of the body entirely. When I hit my head, it was like new possibilities were exposed to me. I feel like the gender oscillator pulses faster and faster until reaching a new limit of possibility. A feminine-man, a man-woman, a dissolution of gender across femininity folding across itself repeatedly, faster and faster.

In a way I'm glad I got hit in the head, it broke this cycle of toxic masculinity. I rediscovered a new person in myself, a feminine person, with a bold edge, finally free from the girl-cage. For me now, transitioning isn't really about becoming a man at all, if anything, its the furthest thing from it. It's about realizing the image of a man is a lie, and only exists to escape the oppression of the woman - as is evident by how we treat "girly" men. I'm becoming a self-actualized woman, versus the woman I was confined to within expectation of society. Through this movement all trans movements liberate across this vector of femininity.

For me, my oppression was coded not in traditional feminine expectations like cooking and housekeeping, but a new, professional managerial misogyny dressed in feminist clothing. I was forced to be a working woman for the sake of professionalism. I only became a new kind of doll for my parents and society to decorate. Does becoming a trans man really escape that? For me, I had to seek beyond. This is the deep reason why TERFs attack trans people - because they want women - ALL WOMEN - to stay in their place.

Also, I heavily encourage people to talk to intersex people. They are heavily marginalized and tokenized in so many communities and their issues are sorely misunderstood. My bf is intersex and the issues also intersect this health and expression barrier. I have a few other intersex friends and each experience is unique and exposes an opportunity for emotional discussion about the struggle of mandatory assigned gender.

 

[Pixel64]

Hello!

Username: Pixel64
Pronouns: He/Him
Gender: Cis Male
Romantic orientation: Gay
Sexual orientation: Also gay!
Relationship status: Single

I have a super religious family and having to do school online has been kinda hard on me mentally. I've also become an atheist so I'm definitely going to wait until I live on my own to tell them. My mom doesn't approve of my sexuality and views it as a choice (which really annoys me), but she still loves me, and would never kick me out or anything else extreme like that. My stepdad, on the other hand, comes from a country where killing gay people can go unpunished and he has talked about giving LGBT people the death penalty as a good thing.

Anyways, it's nice to see a community on here where people can be open about their identities on here!

 

[Corrin]

I know exactly what you're going through, my step dad was the same way. He'd always tell me that I was confused and couldn't be because I never had sex before and even said that if I had sex with a man I'd be straight.
My mom says she doesn't care, but she constantly nopes out of the subject and chooses to forget.

 

[RadEmpoleon]

I've been doing some thinking, and I'm not sure where I stand now. I don't know if I'd consider myself straight anymore, but I don't know what else I would be... either way, I still want to support the community.

 

[Fairy]

Hi! I'm already a part of the club and I think I even said "pronouns: she but will respond to they". But after a really profound conversation with a dear friend I decided to exclusively identify as they/them. I.. don't know how long this will be for, since finding one's self is a journey.. I'll give you a little history if y'all don't mind. I'm a little nervous, ngl, and it gets graphic, so trigger warning..

Spoiler:

I've always resented being female but never experienced true dysphoria (I think?). The first year I got my period I immediately went on medication to stop that from happening and that was almost 20 years ago. I've basically never had a period. Hell, I'm even wearing a binder right now, hah. After the first CSA incident, I insisted on being called a little boy because being female meant being a victim and weak to me. I was about 8 years old.

The second time it happened i was about 12 and had already gotten into karate. I blame myself to this day for not being able to fight him off but that only reinforced my hatred of being born female.

At the same time, I'm highly attracted to feminine features and knew I was a pansexual (called it bi cause I didn't know the nuance) from a young age. I was always one of the boys, ya know? But I see features in myself that I know are 'conventionally' attractive and it makes my brain do fucking loops.

I feel in a way I begrudgingly grew into this VERY female body and just came to accept that as my reality. But, there's no right or wrong way to be female or male or anything else, right? To this day, I do not know if what I have is dysphoria or body dysmorphia, but I know something doesn't feel right.

So.. I'd like to officially come out as gender fluid! I would prefer people use they/them pronouns, but I'm not going to shame anyone who still refers to me as 'she' since, well, that's not wrong either!

I was hoping maybe I could get some kind of advice from other gender fluid, gender queer, or non binary people here and maybe hear their stories if they're comfortable who may feel the same way I do or can give me some insight.

Thank you for reading.

 

[RadEmpoleon]

I've been doing some thinking, and I'm not sure where I stand now. I don't know if I'd consider myself straight anymore, but I don't know what else I would be... either way, I still want to support the community.

I think I found the right community for me. It may or may not be because of a meme?

Spoiler:

I do all of these hand signs way too much. And now I'll forever think of this meme whenever I do any of these.

Obviously I did some considering after that, and after looking into the different communities, I think bi is the right term to describe me. This might change over time, but this is how I'll classify now.

 

[Corrin]

I'm nonbinary as well, how I present is really based on how I feel that day.

 

[Fairy]

The next time I see my family I'm going to tell them. I've cut my hair (was down to my butt, now to my shoulders), and have heavily male presenting clothing and while I'll never be able to shroud this highly feminine body.. I can do my best! Still vervous though. :(

 

[moon]

Hi! I'm already a part of the club and I think I even said "pronouns: she but will respond to they". But after a really profound conversation with a dear friend I decided to exclusively identify as they/them. I.. don't know how long this will be for, since finding one's self is a journey.. I'll give you a little history if y'all don't mind. I'm a little nervous, ngl, and it gets graphic, so trigger warning..

Spoiler:

I've always resented being female but never experienced true dysphoria (I think?). The first year I got my period I immediately went on medication to stop that from happening and that was almost 20 years ago. I've basically never had a period. Hell, I'm even wearing a binder right now, hah. After the first CSA incident, I insisted on being called a little boy because being female meant being a victim and weak to me. I was about 8 years old.

The second time it happened i was about 12 and had already gotten into karate. I blame myself to this day for not being able to fight him off but that only reinforced my hatred of being born female.

At the same time, I'm highly attracted to feminine features and knew I was a pansexual (called it bi cause I didn't know the nuance) from a young age. I was always one of the boys, ya know? But I see features in myself that I know are 'conventionally' attractive and it makes my brain do fucking loops.

I feel in a way I begrudgingly grew into this VERY female body and just came to accept that as my reality. But, there's no right or wrong way to be female or male or anything else, right? To this day, I do not know if what I have is dysphoria or body dysmorphia, but I know something doesn't feel right.

So.. I'd like to officially come out as gender fluid! I would prefer people use they/them pronouns, but I'm not going to shame anyone who still refers to me as 'she' since, well, that's not wrong either!

I was hoping maybe I could get some kind of advice from other gender fluid, gender queer, or non binary people here and maybe hear their stories if they're comfortable who may feel the same way I do or can give me some insight.

Thank you for reading.

Omg welcome to the nonbinary family! I'm so proud of you for daring to explore your identity further. As you hopefully know, there are no absolutes or rules or things written in stone. It is perfectly alright to try pronouns or even feel 100% fine with certain pronouns for a while only to later on change your mind. This is YOU we are talking about, a living, everchanging, beautiful organism! Static stuff can be for rocks. (or for humans who are very comfortable and happy with who they are or realize they are, that is of course super valid too haha, I'm just encouraging the fluid and nonbinary aspect here :3 )

I'm still not 100% sure that I "am non-binary" as opposed to just being a "girl who really doesn't give a flying fuck about gender" and refuses to have it steer my life more than to the extent I actively choose for myself. I lack physical dysphoria but I do feel quite dysphoric about pronouns, so regardless of what my gender really is or should be called, they/them is greaaaatly preferred to use for me :) I've even started to use the native equivalent for myself here, sneakily hehe, and if anyone would notice and ask, I'd probs just say "it's what I prefer, but you do you". Then again, being a "girl" who doesn't care about or really understand gender, that can mean that I'm non-binary in my own way. So I like to call myself that, or at the very least a non-binary female human or something weirdball like that. Still a they/them tho :3 and that's valid. See, that's the beauty of the non-binary community; there really are no rules and nobody can tell you what's right or wrong. You're just you.

I think I found the right community for me. It may or may not be because of a meme?

Spoiler:

I do all of these hand signs way too much. And now I'll forever think of this meme whenever I do any of these.

Obviously I did some considering after that, and after looking into the different communities, I think bi is the right term to describe me. This might change over time, but this is how I'll classify now.

Yaaas bi crew! It's a super awesome term imo, and I use it myself! I see bisexual/biromantic as terms that simply mean "i'm not exclusively attracted to one other gender". Instead, I'm attracted to more. And that's it! I don't define it more than that, but there's various further labels if one wants to. Such as specifying that one is polysexual/polyromantic ("I like several genders but not all"), or omnisexual/omniromantic ("I like all genders but not in the same way or the same amount"), or even pansexual/panromantic ("I don't care what gender you are, I love you for other factors!"). I'm probably omniromantic but I like to say biromantic because more people understand that. It's just my own preference :3 Anyways, I'm happy to hear that you're discovering yourself! Very proud <3

I'm nonbinary as well, how I present is really based on how I feel that day.

That's gotta be really cool tbh. I can't relate! I ofc too dress depending on how I feel that day, but it's not got to do with my gender I think. Sure, some days I might fluctuate a bit more here or there (I've often called myself Agenderflux) but idk.

The next time I see my family I'm going to tell them. I've cut my hair (was down to my butt, now to my shoulders), and have heavily male presenting clothing and while I'll never be able to shroud this highly feminine body.. I can do my best! Still vervous though. :(

You've got this, babe! "Man presenting" is just learned notions; if someone is a man and has clothes, those are manly clothes. :D But I get your point. Super duper good luck to you <3




In other news: we're the Club of the Month again! Let's chat here more often haha, and keep this a really cozy place!

 

[Hybrid Trainer]

I'm still not 100% sure that I "am non-binary" as opposed to just being a "girl who really doesn't give a flying fuck about gender" and refuses to have it steer my life more than to the extent I actively choose for myself.

Yooooo I don't think I've ever heard anything that describes my relationship with my gender so accurately (subbing the girl for boy obv)

Also welcome to enbie club Fairy :)

 

[Fairy]

Omg welcome to the nonbinary family! I'm so proud of you for daring to explore your identity further. As you hopefully know, there are no absolutes or rules or things written in stone. It is perfectly alright to try pronouns or even feel 100% fine with certain pronouns for a while only to later on change your mind. This is YOU we are talking about, a living, everchanging, beautiful organism! Static stuff can be for rocks. (or for humans who are very comfortable and happy with who they are or realize they are, that is of course super valid too haha, I'm just encouraging the fluid and nonbinary aspect here :3

You've got this, babe! "Man presenting" is just learned notions; if someone is a man and has clothes, those are manly clothes. :D But I get your point. Super duper good luck to you <3

In other news: we're the Club of the Month again! Let's chat here more often haha, and keep this a really cozy place!

This is EXACTLY what I needed to hear and you're totally right, there's no right or wrong way to be male, female, both, neither, and queer-between! This is the inclusive verbiage I still need to learn as I navigate this journey. Everything that was shunned and mocked about young Jo feels like a fire in me to be the me I see on the inside of my head and I want him, her, and them to SHINE.

And omg Riki!! I completely relate. I don't know if what I feel is dysphoria but I know that gender roles for men and women just don't feel right to me. TW non-graphic sex rant:

Spoiler:

Sex doesn't always feel right, penetration (on myself) doesn't always feel right. Like my body remembers either trauma or dysphoria is getting in the way.. but I feel so wrong and vulnerable on my back for... that. It's been so hard to feel comfortable in this VERY female presenting body. Would a packer help?

But I def ... omg i completely lost my train of thought. Wow, never has that happen to me in a post before. Huh, will edit if I remember! But thanks a ton!!

 

[Palamon]

regarding hair, I feel like I'm one of the few people who doesn't associate the length of my hair with my gender identity. I still have long hair, and don't care, I do keep my hair at shoulder length. I've seen guys with long hair and they still look masculine, so I feel like I can have long hair and still feel masculine. But that's just me on how I feel, I do understand if people feel differently.

Also, @ fairy do you have a binder? That could hide your feminine body shape more. (I wish I had a binder, lmfao)

 

[Aslan]

Hope it is OK for me to share my own experience, I do not identify as non-binary as of right now but I've had the experience of questioning a lot whether it was the right label for me or not, from the perspective of a cis female! Not looking for or offering answers to anyone, just wanted to share my experience publicly as I don't think I've ever really talked about this properly. It took a lot of self-reflection but the reason I do not think I am non-binary is that I'm very happy with my feminine name, I like she/her pronouns (he/they just does not click right with me at all - I recognise pronouns do not have to equal gender but it meant I was lucky in that how people view me socially as a girl still works with my preferred name and pronouns) and also I'm not sure if this is valid but from the perspective of my current sexuality - I could only imagine dating girls as a girl, being someone's 'girlfriend' rather than their 'partner' sounded right to me.

That being said, the reason I started questioning was the fact that I could easily present very androgynously due to my body structure/face (I understand non-binary presentation is extremely varied and most definitely not just limited to androgynous but this is what started my own experience!) and I had strong phases where I desired to have a less feminine body/more masculine presentation but knew for certain I did not desire to be a man - I did not want any of the effects of going on T for instance (deeper voice, facial hair, changes to body structure etc.) I really just wanted to look more androgynous at the time, which I guess I could have experimented with if I was brave enough as I would have just had to change my hair/clothes. I think I'm very fortunate in that my body structure means that I will never need a binder if I choose to change my presentation. But I also have definitely had strong and much longer phases of being comfortable I was a girl, enjoying having a feminine body/figure, being very into typically 'feminine' presentation so honestly I am really clueless where I stand in being non-binary or just desiring to be more fluid with my presentation as a woman for those reasons above. At times I feel connected to femininity but also other days, I will be super disconnected or indifferent to my gender. I also know I struggled with feeling feminine enough growing up - was a tomboy for a super long time and getting into feminine fashion/presentation after HS was really exciting at first and I do feel more confident with this new me but part of me also feels like it's a bit off so I'm not sure whether that's linked to my own insecurities about not being female enough or another label would suit me better!

Right now I'm super comfortable with name/pronouns so I haven't felt rushed to reach a conclusion on it but its certainly confusing navigating these feelings and figuring out yourself... figuring out my sexuality was such a relief and point of happiness for me that wondering about gender identity too is very exhausting, ahaha. :'D

 

[Fairy]

Also, @ fairy do you have a binder? That could hide your feminine body shape more. (I wish I had a binder, lmfao)

I have many! Plus general sports bras. I actually double up on them (I know, bad for your health..) because is have a very... pronounced chest - no matter how much I work out. If anything it just gets these dumb lumps out of the way for convenience reasons.

@Aslan: finding one's self is a journey! There's no right or wrong answer for everyone. Like you, I just want a more androgynous body but neither male nor female feel right all the time. But I'm so happy you've found comfort and peace within yourself. That's the goal right? Experience, discovery, discourse, and unconditional support. (´▽`ʃƪ)♡

 

[Zeostar]

Username: ZeoStar
Pronouns: he
Gender: male
Romantic orientation: aromantic
Sexual orientation: asexual
Relationship status: single (I guess. not really looking or wanting to be in a relationship at all).

I don't even remember if I've posted here, but I checked and couldn't find anything. it was probably just some random off topic thread making me feel like i have.

I've always viewed everything as super platonic. Even in media, romance is one of things i've found unrelatable. I don't 'hate' it or anything. Sexuality is usually just the last thing on my mind.

But hey might as well sign up. I do support the community. Although I've grown up in a family who has been mostly antagonistic of LGBTQ related things, ended up forming my own view points and drifted from that way of thinking.

 

[moon]

regarding hair, I feel like I'm one of the few people who doesn't associate the length of my hair with my gender identity. I still have long hair, and don't care, I do keep my hair at shoulder length. I've seen guys with long hair and they still look masculine, so I feel like I can have long hair and still feel masculine. But that's just me on how I feel, I do understand if people feel differently.

Also, @ fairy do you have a binder? That could hide your feminine body shape more. (I wish I had a binder, lmfao)

Haha agree! I know several guys with long hair and historically (longer ago) it has been normal for guys to grow their hair out as well as girls. So it really doesn't matter what gender you are in respect to your hair, it's your hair and you do what you want with it :3 hairstyle is generally an awesome way to show off your personality imo.

Spoiler:

Hope it is OK for me to share my own experience, I do not identify as non-binary as of right now but I've had the experience of questioning a lot whether it was the right label for me or not, from the perspective of a cis female! Not looking for or offering answers to anyone, just wanted to share my experience publicly as I don't think I've ever really talked about this properly. It took a lot of self-reflection but the reason I do not think I am non-binary is that I'm very happy with my feminine name, I like she/her pronouns (he/they just does not click right with me at all - I recognise pronouns do not have to equal gender but it meant I was lucky in that how people view me socially as a girl still works with my preferred name and pronouns) and also I'm not sure if this is valid but from the perspective of my current sexuality - I could only imagine dating girls as a girl, being someone's 'girlfriend' rather than their 'partner' sounded right to me.

That being said, the reason I started questioning was the fact that I could easily present very androgynously due to my body structure/face (I understand non-binary presentation is extremely varied and most definitely not just limited to androgynous but this is what started my own experience!) and I had strong phases where I desired to have a less feminine body/more masculine presentation but knew for certain I did not desire to be a man - I did not want any of the effects of going on T for instance (deeper voice, facial hair, changes to body structure etc.) I really just wanted to look more androgynous at the time, which I guess I could have experimented with if I was brave enough as I would have just had to change my hair/clothes. I think I'm very fortunate in that my body structure means that I will never need a binder if I choose to change my presentation. But I also have definitely had strong and much longer phases of being comfortable I was a girl, enjoying having a feminine body/figure, being very into typically 'feminine' presentation so honestly I am really clueless where I stand in being non-binary or just desiring to be more fluid with my presentation as a woman for those reasons above. At times I feel connected to femininity but also other days, I will be super disconnected or indifferent to my gender. I also know I struggled with feeling feminine enough growing up - was a tomboy for a super long time and getting into feminine fashion/presentation after HS was really exciting at first and I do feel more confident with this new me but part of me also feels like it's a bit off so I'm not sure whether that's linked to my own insecurities about not being female enough or another label would suit me better!

Right now I'm super comfortable with name/pronouns so I haven't felt rushed to reach a conclusion on it but its certainly confusing navigating these feelings and figuring out yourself... figuring out my sexuality was such a relief and point of happiness for me that wondering about gender identity too is very exhausting, ahaha. :'D

It is 100% ok for you to share <3 thank you for your story! It's really cool that you've explored your identity and found something that suits you well.

I relate very hard tbh O: I have times and situations (and social circles) where I feel really good about being feminine and taking on a role that's traditionally applied to women. But when I'm alone and not relating my identity to anything other than myself, and also in some circles and situations, I'm practically agender on the inside. And I have days where I feel like avoiding a feminine expression too. I've long suspected my gender identity be quite fluid, or partially fluid, or fluid once in a while. I'm okay with who I am, at least :3

Username: ZeoStar
Pronouns: he
Gender: male
Romantic orientation: aromantic
Sexual orientation: asexual
Relationship status: single (I guess. not really looking or wanting to be in a relationship at all).

I don't even remember if I've posted here, but I checked and couldn't find anything. it was probably just some random off topic thread making me feel like i have.

I've always viewed everything as super platonic. Even in media, romance is one of things i've found unrelatable. I don't 'hate' it or anything. Sexuality is usually just the last thing on my mind.

But hey might as well sign up. I do support the community. Although I've grown up in a family who has been mostly antagonistic of LGBTQ related things, ended up forming my own view points and drifted from that way of thinking.

Welcome! Having a non-hetero orientation is still seen as weird by so many people, and it's important that we support each other and validate that not everyone will conform to the majority. You shouldn't be expected to enter a relationship or have feelings or urges, you should only be expected to be yourself. Thank you for joining :D I added you in the opening post member list with the delicious aroace flag ;)