Palamon
Silence is Purple
- 8,141
- Posts
- 15
- Years
- Age 27
- Snezhnaya, Teyvat.
- Seen yesterday
It's now been overturned. I am absolutely disgusted.
News Roe v Wade
- Thread starter VisionofMilotic
- Start date
- 15,939
- Posts
- 10
- Years
- Age 31
- Seen yesterday
So they finally made the decision official: https://twitter.com/SCOTUSblog/status/1540336880188801026
Ivysaur
Grass dinosaur extraordinaire
- 21,082
- Posts
- 17
- Years
- Age 33
- Madrid, Europe
- Seen Apr 11, 2024
The most important election in modern American history was 2016. And Trump won.
Now the world will have to live in the shadows of that vote.
Now the world will have to live in the shadows of that vote.
Palamon
Silence is Purple
- 8,141
- Posts
- 15
- Years
- Age 27
- Snezhnaya, Teyvat.
- Seen yesterday
Just wondering, will this illegalize birth control, too? I'm a trans guy, and I would much rather die than get pregnant if something god forbid ever happens to me. I'm not on any sort of anything (because I can't afford it). But now that Roe Vs Wade is overturned, I'm worried that when I can afford it, I'll be denied because it's not protected anymore.
Ivysaur
Grass dinosaur extraordinaire
- 21,082
- Posts
- 17
- Years
- Age 33
- Madrid, Europe
- Seen Apr 11, 2024
No, this applies strictly to abortion. The ruling protecting anticonceptives is a different one. Justice Thomas said they should go kill that one next (along with the rulings protecting the right to be homsexual and the one for gay marriage), but so far it's only a particular opinion of one judge (and frankly, that would be a whole different bridge to cross even for them). So you can rest safe in that regard for the forseeable future.
- 15,939
- Posts
- 10
- Years
- Age 31
- Seen yesterday
Yeah that's a fun thing a lot of people like to ignore.
The US has the worst maternal mortality rate amongst wealthy countries, and by a large margin at that (which should not be surprising in a country with a garbage for-profit "healthcare system"). It's been that way for years. Anti-abortion crowd is all like "we're saving lives!", yet people die from pregnancy complications, childbirth, etc., and it's going to increase now--people who would've otherwise lived if they were able to get an abortion will now die because they couldn't.
It's absolutely appalling news and I'm honestly really happy I left the US (hopefully permanently) last year. Baffling how some of these politicians see rape as something the woman should 'make the most of', even when that involves young girls who just cannot physically handle giving birth. Especially since they don't care at all what happens to the child at all once they're born, if the school shootings are any indication. Absolutely appalling.
- 9,615
- Posts
- 7
- Years
- Age 35
- Sootopolis City
- Seen yesterday
The Supreme Court overturning the constitutional right to an abortion is the latest in a series of dangerous decisions the court made just last week, they just saved the most extreme for last. The rulings they made recently range from striking down New York's gun protection laws- so people don't have to show any justifiable need if they feel like going out in public carrying concealed firearms, to attacking the Miranda rights i.e warnings about your right to remain silent and have a lawyer etc. In the Tekoh case Alito said that Miranda is not rooted in the Constitution, it was a right made up by judges, pretty much the same thing that he said about Roe. Therefore the police cannot be held responsible should they violate them. They are immune to lawsuit, even if what they do leads to a false confession or the wrong verdict.
Another case that the courts handed down a judgement for a few days ago was Carson v Makin. This one is stretching the law between the seperation of church and state. In that case the state of Maine, which has a lot of very rural areas, found itself in a situation where half of it's districts had no nearby public high school. So Maine tried to help students locally by contracting with some schools in other districts and states, paying the tuition for kids to go to public and private schools outside of the area, so they could still have an education. The state program did not pay for religious schools though, but the supreme court has now required them to do so, saying they cannot just fund secular institutions. The argument is that if they don't put their money into religious institutions, then what they are showing is actually a hostility toward religion, so either the government must give subsidies to religious schools, or can't fund the schools at all. Bear in mind, they are not stopping anyone from practicing their religion, the government just isn't funding these types of services, the type of thing that you would think actually is consistent with the text of making no law respecting the establishment of religion in the bill of rights.
It's interesting for this particular case to drop shortly before Roe because you see the court slap down the states rights, then prop them up again in a 180, whichever method is more convenient at the moment to impose their religious agenda on the public. The court overturned Roe v Wade, with Alito writing that he can't find the right to an abortion in the constitution, and since it isn't explicitly listed then for a court to enforce an unenumerated right like it should demonstrate a long-standing history, and abortion is an issue that isn't deeply rooted in the country's tradition to the people will always be divided on it, so the court is not going to protect it as a right, but give it to states to decide i.e ban.
In Maine though, despite having an ammendment about freedom of religion staring them in the face, and the long history of ways religion can likewise be used to divide people, the courts say no, we're going to order the state to support religious exercises, overruling Maine and 37 state rules that prohibit direct or indirect use of the tax payer dollars going to religious programs.
I would not at all be surprised if this court overturned the rulings of Griswold, Lawrence and Obergefell, related to protecting the right to contraception, same-sex intimacy and marriage equality. Alito is saying they won't go back and overturn things like that or rights to interracial marriage, but him just saying so doesn't fill me with confidence. They said things to the effect of Roe v Wade being settled law in their confirmation hearings.
Alito was one of the judges who voted against Obergefell and the right to gay marriage in 2015. Precedent didn't stop him from overturning a 50-year-old law with Roe, a less than 10-year-old precedent may also be vulnerable. The court might not want to drop another bombshell immediately because their decisions are so unpopular, and people are protesting outside the courthouse and their homes. Confidence in the court polled at only 30% or so. More and more people might want to see Clarence Thomas impeached now, some term and age limits placed on these suckers, the court packed with new justices and or even abolished altogether, but I believe this court would love to find a way strip away more freedoms, when they given chance.
Another case that the courts handed down a judgement for a few days ago was Carson v Makin. This one is stretching the law between the seperation of church and state. In that case the state of Maine, which has a lot of very rural areas, found itself in a situation where half of it's districts had no nearby public high school. So Maine tried to help students locally by contracting with some schools in other districts and states, paying the tuition for kids to go to public and private schools outside of the area, so they could still have an education. The state program did not pay for religious schools though, but the supreme court has now required them to do so, saying they cannot just fund secular institutions. The argument is that if they don't put their money into religious institutions, then what they are showing is actually a hostility toward religion, so either the government must give subsidies to religious schools, or can't fund the schools at all. Bear in mind, they are not stopping anyone from practicing their religion, the government just isn't funding these types of services, the type of thing that you would think actually is consistent with the text of making no law respecting the establishment of religion in the bill of rights.
It's interesting for this particular case to drop shortly before Roe because you see the court slap down the states rights, then prop them up again in a 180, whichever method is more convenient at the moment to impose their religious agenda on the public. The court overturned Roe v Wade, with Alito writing that he can't find the right to an abortion in the constitution, and since it isn't explicitly listed then for a court to enforce an unenumerated right like it should demonstrate a long-standing history, and abortion is an issue that isn't deeply rooted in the country's tradition to the people will always be divided on it, so the court is not going to protect it as a right, but give it to states to decide i.e ban.
In Maine though, despite having an ammendment about freedom of religion staring them in the face, and the long history of ways religion can likewise be used to divide people, the courts say no, we're going to order the state to support religious exercises, overruling Maine and 37 state rules that prohibit direct or indirect use of the tax payer dollars going to religious programs.
I would not at all be surprised if this court overturned the rulings of Griswold, Lawrence and Obergefell, related to protecting the right to contraception, same-sex intimacy and marriage equality. Alito is saying they won't go back and overturn things like that or rights to interracial marriage, but him just saying so doesn't fill me with confidence. They said things to the effect of Roe v Wade being settled law in their confirmation hearings.
Alito was one of the judges who voted against Obergefell and the right to gay marriage in 2015. Precedent didn't stop him from overturning a 50-year-old law with Roe, a less than 10-year-old precedent may also be vulnerable. The court might not want to drop another bombshell immediately because their decisions are so unpopular, and people are protesting outside the courthouse and their homes. Confidence in the court polled at only 30% or so. More and more people might want to see Clarence Thomas impeached now, some term and age limits placed on these suckers, the court packed with new justices and or even abolished altogether, but I believe this court would love to find a way strip away more freedoms, when they given chance.
pastelspectre
Memento Mori★
- 2,167
- Posts
- 14
- Years
- Age 26
- The Pacific Northwest
- Seen Feb 6, 2024
Hearing that it is officially overturned makes me so angry. I didn't think the day would actually come, but it has. This is just going to prevent so many people from getting safe abortions. I'm also worried about what the government will do next.
TW for child rape, but this was brought to my attention on Twitter and there's even people who believe minors should keep their baby.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jul/03/ohio-indiana-abortion-rape-victim
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jul/03/ohio-indiana-abortion-rape-victim
- 9,615
- Posts
- 7
- Years
- Age 35
- Sootopolis City
- Seen yesterday
Last night I read this sad story about a girl just 10 years old who was raped in Ohio, and got pregnant. It's heartbreaking and infuriating.
https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow...ly-forced-leave-ohio-legal-abortion-rcna36660
Once she realized that she was pregnant there was nothing she could do there about the pregnancy that was forced on her, because of the abortion laws in her state.
It's a sick world where survivors of rape, even children, have to endanger their physical and emotional health and lives having their attacker's children, face the perils of some horrible back alley abortion or try to runaway to another state or country where abortion is not criminalized yet. In this case, the little girl chose the latter. She shouldn't have had to though. What happened to her was already horific, and the government should not have made this nightmare go on a moment longer. It's cruel, and I unfortunately expect more cases like this, and not everybody will be able to get away like she did.
https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow...ly-forced-leave-ohio-legal-abortion-rcna36660
Once she realized that she was pregnant there was nothing she could do there about the pregnancy that was forced on her, because of the abortion laws in her state.
It's a sick world where survivors of rape, even children, have to endanger their physical and emotional health and lives having their attacker's children, face the perils of some horrible back alley abortion or try to runaway to another state or country where abortion is not criminalized yet. In this case, the little girl chose the latter. She shouldn't have had to though. What happened to her was already horific, and the government should not have made this nightmare go on a moment longer. It's cruel, and I unfortunately expect more cases like this, and not everybody will be able to get away like she did.
Poke fan number 489
pokemon fan
- 150
- Posts
- 2
- Years
- Age 23
- Earth
- Seen Jul 19, 2023
I do not respect people who support the overturn, and I will never respect people who support the overturn.
- 9,615
- Posts
- 7
- Years
- Age 35
- Sootopolis City
- Seen yesterday
There is a nightmarish image that has appeared on Instagram, Reddit and Twitter of a woman who says she suffered an ectopic pregnancy, and needed an abortion, but did not receive the immediate care she should have because Roe has been overturned.
An ectopic pregnancy is a serious medical complication where a fertilized egg implants outside of the uterus. It is a life-threatening emergency. If it goes untreated, then the fallopian tubes, where the egg is usually stuck in during this kind of pregnancy, burst from the strain of the growth inside of it. They aren't meant to be stretched to accommodate a developing embryo, and the patient bleeds to death.
This is something that should be treated as soon as it is detected because the risk to the parent is so high, and the fetus is virtually certain not to survive outside of the uterus anyway. However, even though terminating an ectopic is almost universally the recommended procedure, this woman says she was left in this state of limbo while her request for an abortion underwent review, and doctors were barred from performing even this life-saving surgery, without meeting with teams of lawyers, though her tubes had literally already ruptured.
She doesn't mention what state she is in, but evidently one where abortion in most cases now means losing your medical license, lawsuits against the hospital or prison. She said she almost died over the weekend, she struggled to breathe, lost a 1000 ccs of blood and was and still is in agony. In spoiler tags is her picture of her mutilated stomach, bruised black and blue from the internal bleeding.
I don't know her full name, so I can't follow up on all the details, but I believe her story, and tragedies like this have certainly been happening in a post Roe America.
The Texas Medical Association filed a complaint that hospitals in the state are refusing to provide surgery for patients suffering from major medical complications. The doctors want to help the sick people who come to them, but attorneys and administrators of the medical institutions are afraid prosecuted over the loss of the fetus, and tell them they can't. One central Texas hospital told a physician that their client would have to endure the ectopic pregnancy until her tubes burst!
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/texas-hospitals-delaying-care-over-violating-abortion-law
The New England Journal of medicine has been researching what's happening in the southwest right now, documentating cases of patients who have experienced rupture of the membranes during pregnancy, and wanted abortions, yet even then some clinics wouldn't operate if there was still any sign of cardiac activity left from the fetus. People were sent back home still pregnant where their condition worsened and descended into infection!
Some lethal medical conditions that state law makes no exception for include anencephaly and bilateral renal agenesis, conditions where the skull/ brain and kidneys respectively don't develop in the fetus, and result in a stillbirth or a baby that lives for only a few hours, but even when this is found during pregnancy patient is still expected to deliver a baby that they know has no chance of survival.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2207423
The PBS article mentions that the White House is asking state hospitals to follow federal emergency treatment guidelines to at least provide abortion services, if the life of the patient is at risk, in case like ectopic pregnancy, hypertensive disorders etc. This is already frankly too little, too late in my opinion, but Texas doesn't even want to do that, and has sued, arguing that the federal government isn't authorized to require doctors to perform abortions as emergency healthcare. I think we can all gues whose favor this court will rule in as the laws are challenged...
An ectopic pregnancy is a serious medical complication where a fertilized egg implants outside of the uterus. It is a life-threatening emergency. If it goes untreated, then the fallopian tubes, where the egg is usually stuck in during this kind of pregnancy, burst from the strain of the growth inside of it. They aren't meant to be stretched to accommodate a developing embryo, and the patient bleeds to death.
This is something that should be treated as soon as it is detected because the risk to the parent is so high, and the fetus is virtually certain not to survive outside of the uterus anyway. However, even though terminating an ectopic is almost universally the recommended procedure, this woman says she was left in this state of limbo while her request for an abortion underwent review, and doctors were barred from performing even this life-saving surgery, without meeting with teams of lawyers, though her tubes had literally already ruptured.
She doesn't mention what state she is in, but evidently one where abortion in most cases now means losing your medical license, lawsuits against the hospital or prison. She said she almost died over the weekend, she struggled to breathe, lost a 1000 ccs of blood and was and still is in agony. In spoiler tags is her picture of her mutilated stomach, bruised black and blue from the internal bleeding.
Spoiler:
I don't know her full name, so I can't follow up on all the details, but I believe her story, and tragedies like this have certainly been happening in a post Roe America.
The Texas Medical Association filed a complaint that hospitals in the state are refusing to provide surgery for patients suffering from major medical complications. The doctors want to help the sick people who come to them, but attorneys and administrators of the medical institutions are afraid prosecuted over the loss of the fetus, and tell them they can't. One central Texas hospital told a physician that their client would have to endure the ectopic pregnancy until her tubes burst!
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/texas-hospitals-delaying-care-over-violating-abortion-law
The New England Journal of medicine has been researching what's happening in the southwest right now, documentating cases of patients who have experienced rupture of the membranes during pregnancy, and wanted abortions, yet even then some clinics wouldn't operate if there was still any sign of cardiac activity left from the fetus. People were sent back home still pregnant where their condition worsened and descended into infection!
Some lethal medical conditions that state law makes no exception for include anencephaly and bilateral renal agenesis, conditions where the skull/ brain and kidneys respectively don't develop in the fetus, and result in a stillbirth or a baby that lives for only a few hours, but even when this is found during pregnancy patient is still expected to deliver a baby that they know has no chance of survival.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2207423
The PBS article mentions that the White House is asking state hospitals to follow federal emergency treatment guidelines to at least provide abortion services, if the life of the patient is at risk, in case like ectopic pregnancy, hypertensive disorders etc. This is already frankly too little, too late in my opinion, but Texas doesn't even want to do that, and has sued, arguing that the federal government isn't authorized to require doctors to perform abortions as emergency healthcare. I think we can all gues whose favor this court will rule in as the laws are challenged...
- 9,615
- Posts
- 7
- Years
- Age 35
- Sootopolis City
- Seen yesterday
I wasn't sure if I had the stomach to read much more about how people live have to live in anti-abortion states right now, and was trying to avoid some of these stories, because of how unfair and painful they are. It leaves me feeling more angry and overwhelmed than I think I can deal with. But I saw a headline so extreme this morning before work that I couldn't stop myself from trying to find out more. This may be the most Handmaid's Tale-like event I have heard of yet. It actually happened months ago, but it's just now starting to get a lot of national news coverage within recent days as prosecution moves forward since charges were brought in June.
https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisc...sages-celeste-jessica-burgess-madison-county/
A 17-year-old-girl in Nebraska named Celeste Burgess, and her mother Jessica Burgess were both arrested, after the mom was thought to have bought her daughter an abortion pill to help her end a pregnancy she did not want, and then buried the remains of the foetus in secret together with her daughter.
Police got a tip from a friend of the family, reporting that Celeste had a stillbirth, and was concealing it with her mother's help. The investigators obtained medical records to confirm that Celeste had been pregnant, and interrogated the family about how the pregnancy had come to an end. The Burgesses said that Celeste had suffered the miscarriage by accident while showering, but the police got a search warrant to access their private Facebook messages, and found evidence that Jessica had given Celeste instructions on how to safely take abortive medicine.
I remember when the official decision to overturn Roe was announced earlier this summer Vice spoke with many of the big name telecommunication and tech companies, asking if they would turn over any abortion data to the police, things like pill searches and records of purchases online, phone calls to doctors or loved ones, travel information in case you try to leave the state or country, and money transfers. People were deleting their period tracking apps out of concern that it would be monitored by the authorities for irregularities and signs of pregnancy. Several companies would not answer whether or not they would indeed release your sensitive information, names like Amazon, T-Mobile, AT&T, Google, Verizon, Discord and CashApp. I took their silence as an indicator that they would do it, and now we know that this is the case with a prominent example of social media being used by the police to prosecute people in matters of illegal abortions.
The Norfolk Police Department has brought felony charges against Jessica and Celeste for removing/ abandoning a dead human body, concealing the death of another person and false reporting. When they say "person" and "body" they mean the aborted fetus. Jessica faces additional charges for performing or attempting an abortion on a pregnancy at more than 20 weeks, and performing an abortion as a non-licensed doctor. A young man named Tanner Barnhill helped the mother and child leave the state to do conceal the abortion, and he has been charged with a lesser count, and has pled no contest. Jessica and Celeste pled not guilty and are going to stand trial.
This is very disturbing legally, it's one thing to prohibit an abortion, or ban it after a certain point in time, but it's another thing to criminalize the practice if an abortion takes places. There were laws indicating this very thing happening, but it's still chilling to see them being enforced.
Despite being under 18, the state of Nebraska is going to charge Celeste as an adult. It's unclear how much time in prison she and her mother face if they are convicted of all the criminal charges against them.
https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisc...sages-celeste-jessica-burgess-madison-county/
A 17-year-old-girl in Nebraska named Celeste Burgess, and her mother Jessica Burgess were both arrested, after the mom was thought to have bought her daughter an abortion pill to help her end a pregnancy she did not want, and then buried the remains of the foetus in secret together with her daughter.
Police got a tip from a friend of the family, reporting that Celeste had a stillbirth, and was concealing it with her mother's help. The investigators obtained medical records to confirm that Celeste had been pregnant, and interrogated the family about how the pregnancy had come to an end. The Burgesses said that Celeste had suffered the miscarriage by accident while showering, but the police got a search warrant to access their private Facebook messages, and found evidence that Jessica had given Celeste instructions on how to safely take abortive medicine.
I remember when the official decision to overturn Roe was announced earlier this summer Vice spoke with many of the big name telecommunication and tech companies, asking if they would turn over any abortion data to the police, things like pill searches and records of purchases online, phone calls to doctors or loved ones, travel information in case you try to leave the state or country, and money transfers. People were deleting their period tracking apps out of concern that it would be monitored by the authorities for irregularities and signs of pregnancy. Several companies would not answer whether or not they would indeed release your sensitive information, names like Amazon, T-Mobile, AT&T, Google, Verizon, Discord and CashApp. I took their silence as an indicator that they would do it, and now we know that this is the case with a prominent example of social media being used by the police to prosecute people in matters of illegal abortions.
The Norfolk Police Department has brought felony charges against Jessica and Celeste for removing/ abandoning a dead human body, concealing the death of another person and false reporting. When they say "person" and "body" they mean the aborted fetus. Jessica faces additional charges for performing or attempting an abortion on a pregnancy at more than 20 weeks, and performing an abortion as a non-licensed doctor. A young man named Tanner Barnhill helped the mother and child leave the state to do conceal the abortion, and he has been charged with a lesser count, and has pled no contest. Jessica and Celeste pled not guilty and are going to stand trial.
This is very disturbing legally, it's one thing to prohibit an abortion, or ban it after a certain point in time, but it's another thing to criminalize the practice if an abortion takes places. There were laws indicating this very thing happening, but it's still chilling to see them being enforced.
Despite being under 18, the state of Nebraska is going to charge Celeste as an adult. It's unclear how much time in prison she and her mother face if they are convicted of all the criminal charges against them.