News Roe v Wade

[VisionofMilotic]

The US Supreme Court looks like it's ready to overturn Roe v Wade, the 1973 decision which protects the right to have an abortion under federal government.

Politico has a leaked draft of a majority opinion written by Justice Aliato stating, "We hold that Roe must be overruled. The Constitution makes no reference to abortion, and no such right is implicitly protected by the constitution."

Politico has made 90 pages worth of documents available in full, if you want to read more. Essentially though, if the holding in this draft is published and made law then it strikes down Roe's protections entirely, rejecting it's reasoning after nearly 50 years.

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/05/02/supreme-court-abortion-draft-opinion-00029473

It was mentioned that the decision to overturn this precedent hasn't been finalized technically, new drafts can be written, and judges could change their vote etc. I find it difficult to believe that Roe V Wade will be upheld by a 6-3 conservative to liberal majority with partisan voters likes of Clarence Thomas, Brett Kavanaugh, Amy Barrett and so on.

I think Roe is as good as gone, and that a lot of red states that already have been toughening restrictions on access to abortions like Mississippi and Alabama, but couldn't altogether ban abortion before a certain point because of the protection of Roe, are going to outright ban abortions in the next few years since they would be allowed to if Roe is overturned.

How do you feel about Roe V Wade, and do you support maintaining it, or do you think it's wrong, and should be overturned?

 

[Orion☆]

Yyyyyyyikes! As someone from a country that very recently passed a law guaranteeing the right to legal and safe abortion procedures, and only after a long debate and dozens of protests, I find the overturning of Roe v Wade in the US absolutely appalling. This isn't even a question of which political party makes up the majority, it's a basic right that could potentially save the lives of many women, especially those whose very health could be at risk by going through an unwanted pregnancy. It's the basic right to life, for eff's sake!

Sometimes I can't believe this is happening in the so-called "land of the free", but then I remember that the US never really deserved that title in the first place and everything becomes much clearer. This is The Handmaid's Tale level of draconian, and though things seem bleak, I do hope it can be fought back.

 

[Ivysaur]

A win for the reactionaries that opens the door to banning same-sex marriage and removing other protections - hell, Alito's draft even takes aim at the ruling outlawing "sodomy laws", ie, laws against homosexuality. Most terrifyingly enough, it says that only rights "with a long history" should exist, and I'm not even sure if the Civil Rights Act qualifies as "old enough", as slavery was very much a thing when the Constitution was written, and the Republican judges have indicated that that is the time frame they want to go back to.

 

[SleepyBirb]

America is going back to the 1950's and It's actually terrifying. The very fact the Supreme Court even wants to overturn it is disgusting as hell. It's not gonna stop people getting abortions, it stops safe abortions...

Pro-life? Yeeeeeah, ok. America is doomed

 

[Arcaneum]

The even scarier prospect is if something as huge as this can be overturned, what do they move onto next?

I believe in Alito's draft we see Loving v. Virginia targeted too, so soon interracial marriages and such could be affected also... all under the name of "ReLIgION".

 

[Nah]

I'm not surprised to hear this. Pretty obvious that a 6-3 conservative majority Supreme Court would choose to overturn Roe v Wade and remove federal protections for abortion, this is exactly why several conservative states starting passing anti-abortion laws a couple of years ago. They knew that so long as one made it to the Supreme Court, they were highly likely to win. Even if they didn't, they could keep trying so long as the court remains a conservative majority.

The surprising part is that the decision was leaked early, that's supposed to be extremely rare. Wonder why it leaked and why now?

And of course the most fun part is, as has been said, this then means that other major good court decisions could be next. Some people might think that's a slippery slope or something, but it's really not.

 

[Fairy]

Yeah….

As someone who just had a pregnancy scare very recently, this is abhorrent and terrifying.

 

[Flowerchild]

what a scary thing to wake up to :(

 

[Palamon]

As a pro-choice person, the fact they keep trying to take away rights to abortion pisses me off.

This is, in my opinion, a violation of human rights to reverse something like this. Not every single person who gets pregnant wants to have the child, and should be allowed to choose. There are definitely states that are going to ban abortion if this gets overturned. But that's all I'm going to say, I won't be responding to post quotes of any kind about this.

 

[Megan]

They really want to show just how much they hate women, don't they? :(

 

[Corrin]

So from what I understand, it would be up to the individual states to decide?
Considering how violently against abortion some states are, even having jail time for it. I feel for the American citizens.
But this will only cause more harm to mothers and kids. Women will have to rely on "back alley" abortion clinics or even try it themselves, possibly causing death. Also, these people don't care about the children they've convinced themselves their saving. These kids will face many hardships and suffering.

Also, what if a woman is raped? What if the expecting mother gets seriously ill?

The blame is always placed on women, violence against women is so normalized and very little is done. If a woman comes about abuse, she is shamed, called a liar, and dragged through. It boggles my mind, especially as a woman.

 

[VisionofMilotic]

In Orange are the 26 states that are considered likely or definitely going to ban abortion without Roe. I got the image from the Guttmacher Institute, a research center that focuses on issues of reproductive health and rights. It's half of the country.



The states are Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky, Louisiana, Montana, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, Nebraska, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Wisconsin, West Virginia and Wyoming

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/04/us/abortion-trigger-laws.html

This New York times article has a list of the 13 states with "trigger laws" on the books that can go into effect within days of Roe's overturn, making abortion illegal. Several states will not make exceptions to their anti-abortion stance, even in the most extreme of circumstances such as rape, incest, human trafficking, birth defects, age or hardship. Health risks also may not be enough for an exemption in some instances, unless you are nearly dying.

The prohibition wouldn't just make abortion services not available to the general public, they would be criminalized. Kentucky and Oklahoma doctors who do an abortion could go to jail for 10 years.

Yesterday I heard on the Thom Hartmann show that a bill in Tennessee had been introduced this spring, deputizing all citizens to file lawsuits against anyone suspected of having anything to do with an abortion. So they're asking people to police their neighbors, and rat on family or significant others.

https://www.today.com/parents/pregnancy/tennessee-bill-rapists-sue-abortion-rcna20581

This is so crazy that even if you were raped, and got pregnant that way, the law would make it possible for relatives and associates of the rapists to bring a lawsuit to court, should you try to get your unwanted pregnancy terminated!

Missouri evidently is working out something similar that takes action against anyone outside of the state who helps Missouri residents seeking these medical services.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2022/03/missouri-abortion-out-of-state-fugitive-slave/

I think it's already unrealistic when people are told things like "just leave the state, if you don't like the abortion laws." Not everyone has the money to do so, or is old enough to drive without an adult. However, with a law like this, even if a non-profit organization, some family members or friends elsewhere wanted to help people in difficult circumstances get out of state for the procedure, the legal consequences and repercussions would follow them all across the country.

I wish I were making this stuff up.

 

[Devalue]

Estimates 25% of women to undergo an abortion, according to the same Guttmacher Institute. (Saw no information about other genders.) Amounts to a lot of people. Likely drastically altered their trajectory in life.

Is not really surprised by this (likely) decision. Knows enough about the judges and some senators who voted them in. Places little value in lives other than their own.

Hopes for Congress to do something (successfully) on their end. Severely doubts it. Gives better odds to a "justice" changing their mind.

 

[Corrin]

In Orange are the 26 states that are considered likely or definitely going to ban abortion without Roe. I got the image from the Guttmacher Institute, a research center that focuses on issues of reproductive health and rights. It's half of the country.



The states are Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky, Louisiana, Montana, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, Nebraska, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Wisconsin, West Virginia and Wyoming

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/04/us/abortion-trigger-laws.html

This New York times article has a list of the 13 states with "trigger laws" on the books that can go into effect within days of Roe's overturn, making abortion illegal. Several states will not make exceptions to their anti-abortion stance, even in the most extreme of circumstances such as rape, incest, human trafficking, birth defects, age or hardship. Health risks also may not be enough for an exemption in some instances, unless you are nearly dying.

The prohibition wouldn't just make abortion services not available to the general public, they would be criminalized. Kentucky and Oklahoma doctors who do an abortion could go to jail for 10 years.

Yesterday I heard on the Thom Hartmann show that a bill in Tennessee had been introduced this spring, deputizing all citizens to file lawsuits against anyone suspected of having anything to do with an abortion. So they're asking people to police their neighbors, and rat on family or significant others.

https://www.today.com/parents/pregnancy/tennessee-bill-rapists-sue-abortion-rcna20581

This is so crazy that even if you were raped, and got pregnant that way, the law would make it possible for relatives and associates of the rapists to bring a lawsuit to court, should you try to get your unwanted pregnancy terminated!

Missouri evidently is working out something similar that takes action against anyone outside of the state who helps Missouri residents seeking these medical services.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2022/03/missouri-abortion-out-of-state-fugitive-slave/

I think it's already unrealistic when people are told things like "just leave the state, if you don't like the abortion laws." Not everyone has the money to do so, or is old enough to drive without an adult. However, with a law like this, even if a non-profit organization, some family members or friends elsewhere wanted to help people in difficult circumstances get out of state for the procedure, the legal consequences and repercussions would follow them all across the country.

I wish I were making this stuff up.

There's a species superior to us filming a horror movie on Earth AS WE SPEAK.

Honestly, it feels like this is a never ending nightmare.

 

[Harmonie]

This is very bad news. I can't sugarcoat it. I can't think of any reason for optimism. This is bleak, and it looks to get even bleaker with the Republicans set to take all of the federal government back over the course of the next few years.

I know I need to get out of my red state, but will that even protect me in the long run with a Republican federal government? Yikes.

 

[Corrin]

I know some laws punish you for going to another state, but what about another country?
You could get an abortion in Mexico or Canada, surely? (It's legal here in Canada)

 

[Hermione Granger]

Given that most abortions is for unwanted pregnancies and not rape, why haven't those women gotten the operation to prevent pregnancy, that should be a priority getting those women the procedure. So the priority in a post roe vs wade world is to get federal funding for those services. If we can get those services in place we could prevent the need for taking an innocent life away. And to point out, abortion is the number one cause of death at least here in the states. And actually our own constitution technically is supposed to even protect the unborn, so the roe vs wade decision was by definition our supreme courts first violation of the constitution of the United States. As a reminder we were using the same constitutional amendment that was one of three passed to put an end to slavery. You want to attack religion, when we written the constitution based upon religion.

Religion is the cornerstone of the United States whether you like it or not. And don't use right to life to defend abortion when the unborn had that right taken away from them in 73 in an unconstitutional decision. In the last 49 years the United States is likely the number one country to perform Genocide on its own people and it seems you people support it, yet we on the contrary condemn genocide pointed at other nations. So we as a nation is our own biggest hypocrites.

I might be pro life as you can tell, but let me be clear I'm not pro-republican. The republicans want to attack my community of disabled citizens in this entire nation. So I don't have an ounce of trust in the republican party who I will admit does abuse their religion as they are not acting like what they were taught in church or maybe had bad preachers growing up.

So I'm actually going to paint a grim picture of the United States so to those here in the US don't take offence, but our own government is our very downfall. Since we got a government full of people that have attacked our very own cornerstone that has kept the states its freedom. If we had a proper government today we would have made sure we would show love and compassion to everybody including the lgbt, but as we all know we don't have a government that does that, but a government of hatred on both sides.

This might be the unpopular opinion, but I do hope you people try to push the democrats to pass federal funding for pregnancy preventing operations. This could also save lives of women since they will not have to worry about having an unwanted child.

At least I could point out something that I would think would be popular, force all rapists to get the procedure. I wished that was a common thing for all states.

Also before you dare bash me, I can tolerate abortions over rape, incest, and legit health issues. I just don't tolerate abortions over easily avoidable pregnancies which seems to be the majority of abortions.

 

[professor plum]

Given that most abortions is for unwanted pregnancies and not rape, why haven't those women gotten the operation to prevent pregnancy, that should be a priority getting those women the procedure.

Sterilization is not a viable alternative to abortion lol. Forced sterilization, actually, has a long history as being targeted specifically toward minorities and people with disabilities.

So the priority in a post roe vs wade world is to get federal funding for those services. If we can get those services in place we could prevent the need for taking an innocent life away.

Contraceptives exist.

And to point out, abortion is the number one cause of death at least here in the states.

Are you sure? The CDC says otherwise.

Heart disease: 696,962
Cancer: 602,350
COVID-19: 350,831
Accidents (unintentional injuries): 200,955
Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 160,264
Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 152,657
Alzheimer's disease: 134,242
Diabetes: 102,188
Influenza and pneumonia: 53,544
Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 52,547

You want to attack religion, when we written the constitution based upon religion.

Religion is the cornerstone of the United States whether you like it or not.

It's not 1780s anymore. The United States isn't just one religion.

And don't use right to life to defend abortion when the unborn had that right taken away from them in 73 in an unconstitutional decision. In the last 49 years the United States is likely the number one country to perform Genocide on its own people and it seems you people support it, yet we on the contrary condemn genocide pointed at other nations. So we as a nation is our own biggest hypocrites.

Abortion is not genocide.

the deliberate termination of a human pregnancy, most often performed during the first 28 weeks of pregnancy.

the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group

At least I could point out something that I would think would be popular, force all rapists to get the procedure. I wished that was a common thing for all states.

And for the falsely accused?

Abortions are still going to happen - we'll simply see an inevitable increase of deaths of mothers who die from back-alley abortions - source (specifically:

Spoiler:

Estimates of the number of illegal abortions in the 1950s and 1960s ranged from 200,000 to 1.2 million per year. One analysis, extrapolating from data from North Carolina, concluded that an estimated 829,000 illegal or self-induced abortions occurred in 1967.

One stark indication of the prevalence of illegal abortion was the death toll. In 1930, abortion was listed as the official cause of death for almost 2,700 women—nearly one-fifth (18%) of maternal deaths recorded in that year. The death toll had declined to just under 1,700 by 1940, and to just over 300 by 1950 (most likely because of the introduction of antibiotics in the 1940s, which permitted more effective treatment of the infections that frequently developed after illegal abortion). By 1965, the number of deaths due to illegal abortion had fallen to just under 200, but illegal abortion still accounted for 17% of all deaths attributed to pregnancy and childbirth that year. And these are just the number that were officially reported; the actual number was likely much higher.

Poor women and their families were disproportionately impacted. A study of low-income women in New York City in the 1960s found that almost one in 10 (8%) had ever attempted to terminate a pregnancy by illegal abortion; almost four in 10 (38%) said that a friend, relative or acquaintance had attempted to obtain an abortion. Of the low-income women in that study who said they had had an abortion, eight in 10 (77%) said that they had attempted a self-induced procedure, with only 2% saying that a physician had been involved in any way.

These women paid a steep price for illegal procedures. In 1962 alone, nearly 1,600 women were admitted to Harlem Hospital Center in New York City for incomplete abortions, which was one abortion-related hospital admission for every 42 deliveries at that hospital that year. In 1968, the University of Southern California Los Angeles County Medical Center, another large public facility serving primarily indigent patients, admitted 701 women with septic abortions, one admission for every 14 deliveries.

A clear racial disparity is evident in the data of mortality because of illegal abortion: In New York City in the early 1960s, one in four childbirth-related deaths among white women was due to abortion; in comparison, abortion accounted for one in two childbirth-related deaths among nonwhite and Puerto Rican women.

Even in the early 1970s, when abortion was legal in some states, a legal abortion was simply out of reach for many. Minority women suffered the most: The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimates that in 1972 alone, 130,000 women obtained illegal or self-induced procedures, 39 of whom died. Furthermore, from 1972 to 1974, the mortality rate due to illegal abortion for nonwhite women was 12 times that for white women.

 

[Hermione Granger]

1+ million abortions take place each year that is more than 700,000 Professor Plum. Also don't 1780's me this 1780's that, religion is still a cornerstone in the US of A like I said whether you like it or not even if we have multiple religions. Christianity still makes the majority of all religions still in the US even if that is going down year after year since the devil is getting more of a grasp each year of the American people.

40+ million innocent souls have been taken from us over 49 years and you want to defend that. 40+ million murdered souls and yes abortion is murder but people who don't tell the truth will tell you its not and I did paint a grim picture of the United States and that is going to happen whether you are going to accept it or not. This whole nation is going to implode on itself with the current leadership on both sides.

Also did I not say I can tolerate the abortions of rape, incest, and legit health issues since you clearly ignored that part of my post. The massive majority of pregnancies are easily avoidable and like I said the operations that prevents pregnancy can save lives if the ones who don't want kids have it and that is every person of any skin color should be eligible for some kind of federal funding of these operations regardless of race or wealth. You don't want to see that kind of funding in a post roe vs wade scenario, come on now. We should be encouraging women who don't want kids to have the procedure that is not forced sterilization and you trying to misconstrue my statement and yes it is viable to stop abortions if we can get them to agree and that would be better than birth control. Maybe I should have painted the unwanted pregnancies women who don't want kids period. And I am going to be blunt there is always some sort of blame game in unwanted pregnancy that isn't rape related.

I do know we need to pass laws classifying sex with anyone underage regardless if it was consensual and classify it as rape since underage people shouldn't be having sex in the first place, heck add anyone in high school. You might not want to accept my points, even though my points are valid and true. I don't hide behind lies like most people do.

 

[Ninetales]

1+ million abortions take place each year that is more than 700,000 Professor Plum. Also don't 1780's me this 1780's that, religion is still a cornerstone in the US of A like I said whether you like it or not even if we have multiple religions. Christianity still makes the majority of all religions still in the US even if that is going down year after year since the devil is getting more of a grasp each year of the American people.

40+ million innocent souls have been taken from us over 49 years and you want to defend that. 40+ million murdered souls and yes abortion is murder but people who don't tell the truth will tell you its not and I did paint a grim picture of the United States and that is going to happen whether you are going to accept it or not. This whole nation is going to implode on itself with the current leadership on both sides.

Also did I not say I can tolerate the abortions of rape, incest, and legit health issues since you clearly ignored that part of my post. The massive majority of pregnancies are easily avoidable and like I said the operations that prevents pregnancy can save lives if the ones who don't want kids have it and that is every person of any skin color should be eligible for some kind of federal funding of these operations regardless of race or wealth. You don't want to see that kind of funding in a post roe vs wade scenario, come on now. We should be encouraging women who don't want kids to have the procedure that is not forced sterilization and you trying to misconstrue my statement and yes it is viable to stop abortions if we can get them to agree and that would be better than birth control. Maybe I should have painted the unwanted pregnancies women who don't want kids period. And I am going to be blunt there is always some sort of blame game in unwanted pregnancy that isn't rape related.

I do know we need to pass laws classifying sex with anyone underage regardless if it was consensual and classify it as rape since underage people shouldn't be having sex in the first place, heck add anyone in high school. You might not want to accept my points, even though my points are valid and true. I don't hide behind lies like most people do.

As a Christian myself, I find it completely ignorant to insinuate that the American government must be a theocracy. Religion has absolutely no place in governance whatsoever. Moreover, the devil is not grabbing hold of people, rather, it's individuals such as yourself who weaponize religion against society's most vulnerable, and utilize it as a means of spreading fear as to why so many perceive religion in a negative light.

As you might've guessed, I am wholeheartedly pro-choice. You, nor anyone else should have a say in what a person with a uterus does with their own body. If you don't like abortions, don't have one. It's quite literally that simple. But you do not get to force your beliefs onto others.

As aforementioned, banning abortion won't prevent abortions from occurring. It simply endangers women, specifically those of lower socio-economic status or those belonging to ethnic minority groups.

Another point I would like to make is that "pro-life" is anything but, it's pro-control, anti-woman. So many pro-lifers advocate for the unborn because the unborn do not have a voice of their own, hence the convenience of speaking on behalf of such a group. Ironically, as soon as a child is born, many pro-lifers stop caring. The same people who advocate so strongly for cells in the womb fail to have that same energy for single/struggling mothers, the impoverished, the elderly, and all other vulnerable groups. Many "pro-lifers" oppose safety social nets in which would support these people, many fail to implement accessibility to quality education and healthcare services for these children and mothers whom they claim to advocate for.

So, let me ask you this, do you truly care about the lives of children and those with uteruses? Or are you advocating for the unborn to satisfy your own self-righteousness?

Why not combat the homeless crises? Why not advocate for the hungry? Why not fight climate change which threatens the future of humanity as a whole? If you truly cared about human life, you would be speaking up about those issues, as opposed to attempting to undermine bodily autonomy.