Any moves you think need changes?

[Sheep]

There are so many different moves in this series, and we probably don't think they're all perfect. What ones would you change, and to what?

 

[Roni]

up Focus Blast's accuracy for starters.

 

[Figure]

I would like to see a decently powerful rock type move with 100% accuracy that isn't exclusive to a furry Mon that sucks ass. Maybe just 80 base power because I think Rock is strong of an offensive typing to have something akin to an earthquake but I would love to be able to run rock coverage without missing all of the time. Excluding No Guard Stone Edge of course. So maybe make rock throw 80/100.

 

[Pokedream.su]

I actually really liked how in Gen 1 games if you knocked out a Pokemon with Hyperbeam, you didn't have to recharge.

 

[Megan]

Why does Cut as a very weak move not have 100% accuracy? In-game it's supposed to be this super secret sword technique but in practice it just doesn't cut it at all. Especially with HMs gone and moves like Leech Life being buffed, why not make it better as well?

 

[Lysander]

I feel that Fire Blast should have 100 Accuracy when it is used while Sunny Day is in effect, like how Thunder and Blizzard have 100 Accuracy when Rain Dance and Hail are in effect

 

[Setsuna]

Let's be real, Bite has no late-game potential because you'll always forget it for Crunch, which is just bigger and better in every way. Why keep Take Down when you can have Double Edge? Bubble when you have Bubblebeam? Give these early-game moves more of a reason to stick around instead of introducing new moves to phase them out, because once you get the better version you're gonna forget they even exist. Maybe Bite could have a higher flinch chance? Take Down has 85% accuracy while Double Edge has 100%, why not swap them to have a reason to keep Take Down, it'd be just like using Flamethrower over Fire Blast. The idea of having "the better version of this move" makes some moves lame and forgettable.

EDIT: I've since looked over this and Bite specifically does have reason to be kept over Crunch. Bite has a 30% to flinch, Crunch a 20% to lower defense. I want more things like that.

 

[Adam Levine]

make spark stronger pleeease game freak we are starved for good physical electric moves

 

[FeraligatrMaster]

Slam - A Normal type move with 80 base power, 75 Accuracy, and no secondary effect? Easily one of the worst moves ever. Give it more Accuracy, a different type, and a secondary effect, or get rid of the move.

Quash - I think this move should be changed into an attacking move. As it is right now, it's useless outside of Doubles and Triples.

Diamond Storm - Can't we make this move special? We need more special Rock type moves. Besides, most of Diancie's best moves are special.

 

[Squirtlenator]

Change Mega Punch and Mega Kick's typing from normal to fighting

Also, body slam too

 

[ThePokeCorral]

I've always found it weird that Oder Sleuth and Foresight ignore raises to the subject's Evasion, but don't ignore drops to the attacker's Accuracy. I would definitely change that.

Also, Foresight and Mind Reader should be Psychic type moves.

Not a problem with a move itself, but with which Pokemon learn a move - Why in Arceus' name does the Drowzee line not learn the move Dream Eater by level up? From first playing Red/Blue until recently, I assumed that the Drowzee line was the reason why that move existed. HOW IN THE HELL do you have a Pokemon based on a Baku and not have it learn a move called "Dream Eater???"

Let's be real, Bite has no late-game potential because you'll always forget it for Crunch, which is just bigger and better in every way. Why keep Take Down when you can have Double Edge? Bubble when you have Bubblebeam? Give these early-game moves more of a reason to stick around instead of introducing new moves to phase them out, because once you get the better version you're gonna forget they even exist. Maybe Bite could have a higher flinch chance? Take Down has 85% accuracy while Double Edge has 100%, why not swap them to have a reason to keep Take Down, it'd be just like using Flamethrower over Fire Blast. The idea of having "the better version of this move" makes some moves lame and forgettable.

Late game moves are supposed to be better than early game moves. If they weren't, then either early moves would be too powerful, late moves would be too weak, or both. "The better version of this move" is a necessary thing to exist.

Change Mega Punch and Mega Kick's typing from normal to fighting

Also, body slam too

I think the idea is that any idiot can throw a punch, which is why there are multiple punching moves that are Normal Type. Only punching moves that are flavored as requiring skill are Fighting type. The same goes for Body Slam; you're big and heavy, so you drop your weight on your opponent, anybody can do that.

Mega Kick is harder to justify, especially since until Gen 7 only Hitmonlee could learn it by level up. Hitmonlee's kicking moves in general are less interesting that Hitmonchan's punching moves, which always bugged me. I'm not saying that there should be kicking versions of Fire/Ice/Thunder Punch, but I feel like Hitmonlee deserved something to make its moveset a bit more interesting.

Speaking of kicking moves however, Blaze Kick should be changed to be a dual-type Fire/Fighting type attack, like Flying Press. This doesn't apply to the elemental punches - since again anybody can punch, so anybody with fire powers can use fire punch - but Blaze Kick is learned only by Blaziken and Hitmonlee (until Gen 8 made it a TR), and started out as the signature move of the former; so it's clearly a move associated with Fighting types that requires Fighting-type-level prowess to use.

 

[Zeostar]

Cut should have nothing below 100% accuracy, especially back when it had an HM status. It was already a weak move that you couldn't naturally forget, the last thing it needed was a chance to miss.

 

[ThePokeCorral]

Cut should have nothing below 100% accuracy, especially back when it had an HM status. It was already a weak move that you couldn't naturally forget, the last thing it needed was a chance to miss.

Cut just isn't a very good move period. The real solution to Cut was to get rid of HMs so that you don't have to bother with it at all, which they did. Now, if you want to make it actually desirable, you'd have to make it a LOT stronger - something befitting, as mentioned, its supposed status as a super advanced sword technique. Also, maybe make it be super effective against Grass types.

Also, something I forgot to mention before:

So maybe make rock throw 80/100.

Rock Throw is that standard Rock type move learned at low levels; you don't want to take that away. Just make a new move.

Similarly:

make spark stronger pleeease game freak we are starved for good physical electric moves

There absolutely needs to be a good physical Electric type move, but again, you don't want mid level Pokemon to NOT have access to Spark, or to make Spark overpowered if they still learn it at the same levels. Between that and the general scarcity of physical Electric moves, again, just make a new one, don't change an old one.

I especially hope they introduce a new physical Electric move in Brilliant Diamond & Shining Pearl, since one of the Pokemon that really needs such a move is Luxray.

 

[Sydian]

raise rock climb's accuracy and make it a rock type move if y'all gotta have a dumbass move like that.........

 

[Setsuna]

Late game moves are supposed to be better than early game moves. If they weren't, then either early moves would be too powerful, late moves would be too weak, or both.

They are, and it makes sense for them to be. The early-game and late-game moves are well balanced, absolutely, but that's not the problem here. It's possible to keep their power levels in check while still giving incentive to using weaker moves.

"The better version of this move" is a necessary thing to exist.

The thing is, it's not..?
They exist only in really niche cases, things like Double-Edge over Take Down and it's not like it happens super often. The problem isn't that there are stronger moves, it's that the weak ones no longer have any reason to exist. With Ice Beam and Icy Wind for example, they're both Special Ice moves. Icy Wind still has a great application in competitive battling as it can hit both targets and lower their speed, while something like Ice Beam is just used to deal more damage.
I don't understand why it would be necessary for this kind of problem to exist when it's not something that happens very often, and there are legitimate casual and competitive applications for something like Icy Wind.

 

[ThePokeCorral]

With Ice Beam and Icy Wind for example, they're both Special Ice moves. Icy Wind still has a great application in competitive battling as it can hit both targets and lower their speed, while something like Ice Beam is just used to deal more damage.
I don't understand why it would be necessary for this kind of problem to exist when it's not something that happens very often, and there are legitimate casual and competitive applications for something like Icy Wind.

Well by that logic, Bite DOES have a use. It's a physical Dark type move with a chance to flinch. Night Slash and Crunch deal more damage, but don't flinch. Dark Pulse deals more damage AND flinches, but is a special attack. Want a Dark type attack that can flinch against something with really high Sp. Def? Use Bite. Heck, if the target is immune to critical hits, it barely does less damage than Night Slash.

If that isn't enough incentive for you, then I seriously doubt your claim that this "doesn't happen very often." If Bite is "too weak," then the number of moves that are "too weak" is, at the bare minimum, 25% of all attacking moves.

 

[Setsuna]

Well by that logic, Bite DOES have a use. It's a physical Dark type move with a chance to flinch. Night Slash and Crunch deal more damage, but don't flinch. Dark Pulse deals more damage AND flinches, but is a special attack. Want a Dark type attack that can flinch against something with really high Sp. Def? Use Bite. Heck, if the target is immune to critical hits, it barely does less damage than Night Slash.

I agree with this entirely. Bite does have a use and I can own up to the fact I wasn't aware of that when originally making that initial post, which is why several hours ago I added the following edit on my first post in this thread:

EDIT: I've since looked over this and Bite specifically does have reason to be kept over Crunch. Bite has a 30% to flinch, Crunch a 20% to lower defense. I want more things like that.

This is also why I neglected to mention the whole "Bite and Crunch" thing in my most recent post, and instead mentioned Take Down and Double-Edge, which was an example where I actually made sure I knew the details of the moves before bringing up.
On that topic, the need to have a Dark type attack that can flinch against something with really high Special Defense is a very specific niche, it is a niche nonetheless and a valid one I respect. The whole "barely doing less damage than Night Slash" thing might also be giving Bite too much credit, but there are also scenarios where that can absolutely be the case so, yeah absolutely, sure. That could totally be the case.

If that isn't enough incentive for you, then I seriously doubt your claim that this "doesn't happen very often." If Bite is "too weak," then the number of moves that are "too weak" is, at the bare minimum, 25% of all attacking moves.

I'm going to make the assumption that you're referring to a move's base power as being too weak, please correct me if I'm wrong because I don't want to continue to make incorrect statements.
Based on that assumption... my issue was never the fact that the weaker moves do less damage or have less power, it's the fact that sometimes they're just completely outclassed by other moves and have nothing that stands out about them anymore. I'm either not explaining my point properly or you're not understanding what I mean. I'm not saying to raise the power levels of all these weaker moves or that there are a certain amount of them, I'm saying I think it'd be interesting to give these weaker moves a bigger reason to stand out.

 

[ThePokeCorral]

I agree with this entirely. Bite does have a use and I can own up to the fact I wasn't aware of that when originally making that initial post, which is why several hours ago I added the following edit on my first post in this thread:

I had not seen that edit, sorry for missing that.

The whole "barely doing less damage than Night Slash" thing might also be giving Bite too much credit, but there are also scenarios where that can absolutely be the case so, yeah absolutely, sure. That could totally be the case.

I will admit that Pokemon that are immune to critical hits don't seem to be very prolific, which is why I added it as an afterthought.

I'm going to make the assumption that you're referring to a move's base power as being too weak, please correct me if I'm wrong because I don't want to continue to make incorrect statements.
Based on that assumption... my issue was never the fact that the weaker moves do less damage or have less power, it's the fact that sometimes they're just completely outclassed by other moves and have nothing that stands out about them anymore. I'm either not explaining my point properly or you're not understanding what I mean. I'm not saying to raise the power levels of all these weaker moves or that there are a certain amount of them, I'm saying I think it'd be interesting to give these weaker moves a bigger reason to stand out.

I was referring to the idea that Bite having a lower base power than other Dark type moves like the ones I listed is enough to completely outweigh the fact that it does something that they don't. I was saying that at least 25% of attacking moves are inferior to other moves to at least the same extent that Bite is; I stand by this statement, but since you've clarified that you don't think that Bite is too weak, the point is moot.

Okay, so you're talking about moves that are strictly weaker than other moves. If the weaker move is a mid-level move, like something typically learned in the 30s or late 20s, then yes, I think that most of the time they could give such moves some reason to be useful later on if they really tried. This is assuming that the stronger move is one that is commonly used; if only a few Pokemon have access to it, then that's a different matter.
But when the weaker move is an early level move, like for example Ember vs. Flamethrower, I think that while they could give the weaker move some reason to be useful later on, the reason they don't is probably for simplicity. Early level attacking moves should be simple and straightforward for the most part, and if they are completely outclassed by moves that are learned in the 40s, I think that that's worth it for keeping them simple.